European Club Rugby

@Crash said in NH club rugby:

@Pot-Hale Wow, that's interesting. After all the money Ireland have invested = wonder if a return home is on the cards?

It's unsurprising to me. Aki has said all along that he has options for 2-3 countries so this matches with what he's said previously. It also points to the reality of what project player means. SFA in terms of commitment from either side. Te'o decided to go to UK. If Aki helps in keeping Connacht on track for success in PRO12 and qualifying for Euro comps and helping to develop other Irish players then it's good value. As I've said before, I hope he departs and/or declares for Samoa - or possibly NZ but unlikely in the timeframe- which would be the best outcome.

I doubt he will declare for Samoa if he sees regular play for Ireland on the cards. The only way Manu Samoa will get him is if he returns to Super Rugby.

@Crucial Surely he'll return to the Chiefs? Or Blues - to link up with old pal SBW?

If he declared for Samoa and played for them this June that may mess with the Irish Qualified Quota in the Connacht squad and see him asked to leave as Ruan Pienaar was at Ulster. So he could force the IRFU's hand to get himself removed from a team he no longer wants to play for.

And with a juicy Top 14 contract dangled in front of him then a couple of Tests for the Manu this year could be just the ticket out of Galway.

@Crash said in NH club rugby:

@Crucial Surely he'll return to the Chiefs? Or Blues - to link up with old pal SBW?

Tana would have the inside running I would think. He taught Bundee a lot

@Wurzel said in NH club rugby:

If he declared for Samoa and played for them this June that may mess with the Irish Qualified Quota in the Connacht squad and see him asked to leave as Ruan Pienaar was at Ulster. So he could force the IRFU's hand to get himself removed from a team he no longer wants to play for.

And with a juicy Top 14 contract dangled in front of him then a couple of Tests for the Manu this year could be just the ticket out of Galway.

Connacht have a different agreement when it comes to the Irish eligible players than the other three provinces, but obviously the vitriol and acrimony of that decision would be so great to watch. Aki is signed to a contact through 2020, whether this is voided if he becomes non-poachable we don't know.

Even if Aki wants to play for Ireland I would be tempted to reject the first call up - maybe Ireland/Connacht come with more money or incentives to accept a call up allegiance.

But let's not kid ourselves this is only heading one way - he is not available for selection for NZ, he has been free to declare for Samoa forever and has yet to do so and there are considerable cash incentives to declare for Ireland.

@Bones said in NH club rugby:

@Nepia said in NH club rugby:

@Bones
Pisi was clearly going for the ball.

He was on a running line that saw him arrive under the ball.

As MR notes the other guy jumped higher and not jumping as high shouldn't be a red card offence.

Furthermore Pisi braced for the impact of a guy leading with his legs.

Eh no. Pisi ran underneath him and took him out. Is a high tackle ok if it's a tall guy on a short guy? It's not the tall guys fault the other fella is short. If the short guy was taller there'd be no issue eh. Or if the tall guy was shorter.

Pisi should have been aware of the danger, the bullshit about going for the ball screams reckless to me. What kind of a player thinks he's the only guy on the field going to catch a ball? Do players all of a sudden lose all ability to scan and/or use peripheral vision in these circumstances?

I like how people scream the game is becoming soft and then it's proposed we remove jumping. How about we just drill it into players to take responsibility for their actions?

He took him out? How on earth did you come up with that?

He's running for the ball but is only looking to jump slightly in order to maintain his momentum - a move seen probably 10-20 times per game. Just as he leaps he still has eyes on the ball:

Go forward a frame, he still has eyes on the ball:

Another frame you finally see his head start to turn to avoid being kicked in the face.

There are many arguments of which some have merit. I think it's an unfortunate collision, but I also acknowledge that world rugby have changed rules in order to try and take out dangerous unfortunately collisions out of the game - the players do need to be aware of that.

But a RED card, sending off a player? Thats just plain bullshit. As is your "he took him out" call.

@MajorRage Hah, yeah a slight jump. Not a fake jump at all.

Again, "he only has eyes for the ball" is bullshit. What player at any level has tunnel vision this limited, let alone pro level. Even if it were the case that he only has eyes for the ball, that's the bloody problem - it's reckless and careless, again, what player thinks they're the only one in the field taking the ball?

@Bones I agree. That a guy is labelled reckless, careless and is subsequently given a red card for trying to catch a ball is a bloody problem alright.

@Bones said in NH club rugby:

@MajorRage Hah, yeah a slight jump. Not a fake jump at all.

Again, "he only has eyes for the ball" is bullshit. What player at any level has tunnel vision this limited, let alone pro level. Even if it were the case that he only has eyes for the ball, that's the bloody problem - it's reckless and careless, again, what player thinks they're the only one in the field taking the ball?

Same argument can be made for the other jumper. He put himself in a dangerous position.

@MajorRage said in NH club rugby:

@Bones I agree. That a guy is labelled reckless, careless and is subsequently given a red card for trying to catch a ball is a bloody problem alright.

Nah the problem is you young fellas and your pass the blame culture.

The reason why the other bloke ended up on his noggin is Pisi. Pisi fucked up. Pisi had plenty of opportunity to do things differently, rather than run directly into the path of a jumping player. Pisi pretended to not look or see anywhere else but the tiny ball in the sky, Pisi even pretended to jump to try and sell it. But Pisi saw the other player coming and carried on regardless, knowing the danger.

@antipodean Only if someone disregards the laws of rugby.

Am I putting myself in a dangerous position when I fall down next to the ball when tackled? Someone might have every right to kick at that ball. They might fuck up and kick me in the face. Oops sorry my fault!

@Bones You make it sound like he did it on purpose knowing he'd get a red card. Not a buyer of that. Just like my wife isn't a buyer of the whole young fella thing.

But it's nice to be called young every now and again. So I'll upvote your post, purely for that.

You old bastard.

@Bones said in NH club rugby:

@MajorRage said in NH club rugby:

@Bones I agree. That a guy is labelled reckless, careless and is subsequently given a red card for trying to catch a ball is a bloody problem alright.

Nah the problem is you young fellas and your pass the blame culture.

The reason why the other bloke ended up on his noggin is Pisi. Pisi fucked up. Pisi had plenty of opportunity to do things differently, rather than run directly into the path of a jumping player. Pisi pretended

I'm not pretending to know the intent of Pisi. Particularly when the footage shows him looking for and jumping towards the flight of the ball.

With 20/20 vision, Pisi should have laid immobile on the ground letting his captain complain bitterly that the opposing player ran straight into him and took him out. The only resolution to this current madness is to jump and karate kick the fluffybunny coming at you. Make sure you catch the ball.

@Bones In your analogy, you're not competing for the ball. As the current interpretation stands, any contest is now judged on the outcome.

@antipodean @MajorRage

He's not competing for the ball. He's trying to put the other player off doing so. Or did someone remove his blinkers from those screenshots?

Just like a player doing a hard late hit on another player to make him think twice. It's not the tacklers fault, he wasn't even looking at the ball he was looking at where he was going to hit the player!

Looking at the video rather than selective screenshots, what nails Pisi is the he turns his back on the collision. It's difficult to argue going for the ball or managing the collision safely in that position. This is not arguing whether the decision was right but under the current guidance to refs it was a red all day long.

@Catogrande dunno, I reckon as he leaps he then realises, too late he isnt gonna get it first, so braces for the impact.

@taniwharugby Yeah, I'd agree TR but this then means he is not then paying due care and attention to the collision (under the current guidelines). So he's almost automatically a goner. Similar to the Daly red v Argentina. Can't really argue with either..

Whether that's right or wrong is another matter.

@Catogrande From that point of argument, your not wrong.

But it's wrong that it's gotten to the point that you have to think about how you jump to catch a ball to avoid being sent off. Not penalised, not yellow carded, sent off.

The sanction, for punching a bloke in the face off the ball, is the same for not jumping high enough to catch a ball.

@MajorRage Yep, IMO you're right but it is two different arguments at the moment.

1. Was the Pisi incident a red card? yes.
2. Are the laws and guidelines around contest for the ball in the air fair to both sides? No

The real poser though is how to make the answer to question 2 a yes.

This sort of thing was never much of an issue back in the day and I've been wondering why that was so. Jumping for the ball was always allowed (I think) and it was certainly prevalent in AFL. So it's not a new thing. Perhaps it is the effect of more intensified coaching, where the coaches feel they can have an immediate impact, sort of "if you jump higher, you'll either get the ball or win a penalty. So that's what you must do". Dunno but maybe blokes didn't used to do this because it is potentially dangerous?