All Blacks vs Springboks I

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.

well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish

Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.

Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13

TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.

Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48

@nepia I maintain the biggest issue with playing SB at 6, was the fact we carried on with the game plan we'd have had if Cane was out there rather than using SBs stregnth, BBBR was woefuly out of form too...

@Chris-B if it wasn't for the knee injuries Cully would have been closer to 1.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

...BBBR was woefuly out of form too...

BBBR was coming back from injury. This season has shown he needs a few games to really hit his straps, and dominate.

@nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@act-crusader ya reckon? If he's unfit I can't see it not being Bridge/Jordie/Reece.

Ugh, I just threw up a wee bit.

I see what you mean, I still have nightmares about the RWC game against England where both Reece and Bridge were quickly shut down. I'd rather both don't start together, picking one is fine. Reece has high workrate, Bridge slower but safer.
But one of Jordan or RIoane on the wing please.

@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

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A typo or two aside ( Taylor’s r?r? (physical strength) ) I really enjoyed that article. Thanks. Good to see a sports journalist can also be a sharp dress man.

@crucial had a nice show of hands but I hardly saw him..looks a bit lightweight for centre IMO..hope to be proven wrong cos the coaches love him...

@african-monkey said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@crucial Being a Cantab automatically means that your fans believe you played well......

FIFY

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.

the last game I saw Bridge in he only created a lot of rucks, by being tackled.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@crucial had a nice show of hands but I hardly saw him..looks a bit lightweight for centre IMO..hope to be proven wrong cos the coaches love him...

About the same weight as ALB 95kg v 96 kg Ennor slightly taller 187cm to 185cm.

@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.

Yeah me too to be honest.

@nzzp out of form none the less...

@crucial said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

Cough* 2019 SF Cough*

Maybe we could try a Barrett at 6 as well?

Jordie, he has the height…

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

looks a bit lightweight for centre

Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.

But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nepia I maintain the biggest issue with playing SB at 6, was the fact we carried on with the game plan we'd have had if Cane was out there rather than using SBs stregnth, BBBR was woefuly out of form too...

Don't throw some shade on the Magpie while defending the Cantab Mr Taniwha.

SB could have at least won a lineout or two.

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@tim I don't think anyone will cry into their cornflakes if we're "forced" to go with Ioane/Savea/Jacobson and Blackadder/Sotutu eh.

6/7/8 seems to be the one area we really don't need to worry too much about.

Would like ALB back though.

Yep. But I'm much less concerned now Reiko has some game time under his belt

Would still be a bit concerned if we ended up with DMac/Tuapea/Rieko in tight match with Boks. We’re still quite short on Backline ‘grey hair’.

Agreed, I was thinking more of BB/DH/RI.

That said, I want to see more DMac/Tuapea/Rieko playing together to build that experience.

My concern is that with no ALB in 23 we are quite vulnerable to an injury.

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

looks a bit lightweight for centre

Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.

But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.

tipping the scales at 102 i believe they had on the sky thingy they had on him

@ploughboy yeah that's the weight I'd guess for ALB, low 100s..

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@tim I don't think anyone will cry into their cornflakes if we're "forced" to go with Ioane/Savea/Jacobson and Blackadder/Sotutu eh.

6/7/8 seems to be the one area we really don't need to worry too much about.

Would like ALB back though.

Yep. But I'm much less concerned now Reiko has some game time under his belt

Would still be a bit concerned if we ended up with DMac/Tuapea/Rieko in tight match with Boks. We’re still quite short on Backline ‘grey hair’.

Agreed, I was thinking more of BB/DH/RI.

That said, I want to see more DMac/Tuapea/Rieko playing together to build that experience.

My concern is that with no ALB in 23 we are quite vulnerable to an injury.

Whilst not ideal, Jordie has been used as a midfield option for the ABs should Ioane or Havili get injured.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

looks a bit lightweight for centre

Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.

But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...

Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!

I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.

@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.

well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish

Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.

Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13

TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.

Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48

It's not that unusual for AB wingers to start their Test careers with a good try scoring rate. It's maintaining that strike rate after the first couple of years that seems to be quite tough.

These guys started out with fairly good try scoring rates.

Joe Rokocoko - 24 tries in first 16 tests
Julian Savea - 29 tries in first 25 tests
Tana Umaga - 22 tries in first 24 tests
Jonah Lomu - 14 tries in first 15 tests
Christian Cullen - 23 tries in first 23 Tests
Doug Howlett - 10 tries in first 11 Tests
Jeff Wilson - 20 tries in first 24 tests

Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...

One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".

Calmest dude on the pitch.

Maybe he was still pissed?

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

looks a bit lightweight for centre

Huh, go figure. I don't see him as smaller than any of our other midfielders.

But if being too "lightweight" gets him back on the wing where he's a much more dangerous player, then I'll back it.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, and it's just based off a camera to the side, his neck didn't look as thick and robust as other midfielders (built up for collisions)...I didn't notice any weakness or frailty in tackling or running but I didn't see very much of him on camera...

Fuck it made me laugh finding this after getting curious on your observation - look at the size of his fucking neck!

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I would've picked him as a similar size to Rieko.

View embedded content

Na just looks big cos of small shoulders

@mn5 apart from being wider than his head, sure.

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mn5 apart from being wider than his head, sure.

They’re not all Zinzan Brooke’s and Owen Finegans though

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@crucial guess he looked better than Donald did in the 2011 RWC Final...

One of the all-time great AB moments: AB's in a dog-fight, nerves starting to get the best of them and on comes The Duck, shirt several sizes too small, for a penalty and says to McCaw "just give me the fucking ball".

Calmest dude on the pitch.

Maybe he was still pissed?

Imagine what a game he'd have had if sober...

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

19 Francois Mostert

Shakes head…

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi

Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.

@frank thought Mostert was best Bok forward last week

@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@chris I'm surprised ALB is so light.

tipping the scales at 102 i believe they had on the sky thingy they had on him

102.8 kg to be exact. (3:20 on the video)

@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.

well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish

Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.

Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13

TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.

Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48

Most scored at much higher rate in early career. Would be interesting to see figures of the above for first 20 tests.

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@tim I don't think anyone will cry into their cornflakes if we're "forced" to go with Ioane/Savea/Jacobson and Blackadder/Sotutu eh.

6/7/8 seems to be the one area we really don't need to worry too much about.

Would like ALB back though.

Yep. But I'm much less concerned now Reiko has some game time under his belt

Would still be a bit concerned if we ended up with DMac/Tuapea/Rieko in tight match with Boks. We’re still quite short on Backline ‘grey hair’.

Agreed, I was thinking more of BB/DH/RI.

That said, I want to see more DMac/Tuapea/Rieko playing together to build that experience.

My concern is that with no ALB in 23 we are quite vulnerable to an injury.

Whilst not ideal, Jordie has been used as a midfield option for the ABs should Ioane or Havili get injured.

Two words: brain fade.

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn

Based on this, I think I’d start with Ofa and Moody, with Karl and Nepo off the bench.

Three quarters Rieko/ALB/Reece to start, with WJ on bench OR Reece/Rieko/WJ, with Tuapea on bench.

@frank said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi

Kwagga Smith + Kolisi = Boks trying to speed the game up, or perhaps Mostert has just been shit at blindside.

Siya isn’t up to speed, but not the done thing to bench him.

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

Boks named - Smith, de Jager in, Steyn on the bench -
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Albertus Smith, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Trevor Nyakane
Replacements:16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Francois Mostert, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn

Which of those four or five aren’t up to it according to Laurie Mains ?

@dice said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:

having watched teh last two Bok tests it would be an enormously stupid error to pick an inferior all-round player just to negate one part of what the opposition does, and not look to making more of what we do well.

I wouldn't have Bridge in the 23, he is unnecessary.

We have a team full of finishers. We want someone who can create the opportunities.

well put, i really do miss people like B & C smith (and obviously others), sure they finished a lot themselves but i most fondly remember them just making those breaks/half beaks that then had two or three other feed off and finish

Our current four wings are scoring tries at almost unprecedented rates.

Rieko 30/42
Even the much maligned George 12/15
Will 11/8
Sevu 10/13

TOTAL 63 tries 78 tests 0.8 tries per test.

Doug Howlett got 49/62 at 0.79
Cully got 46/58 at 0.79
Goldie got 44/60 at 0.73
Big Jules got 46/64at 0.72
Joe Rok got 46/69 at 0.66
Jonah got 37/63 at 0.58
Bender got 39/84 at 0.46
Tana got 36/74 at 0.48

It's not that unusual for AB wingers to start their Test careers with a good try scoring rate. It's maintaining that strike rate after the first couple of years that seems to be quite tough.

These guys started out with fairly good try scoring rates.

Joe Rokocoko - 24 tries in first 16 tests
Julian Savea - 29 tries in first 25 tests
Tana Umaga - 22 tries in first 24 tests
Jonah Lomu - 14 tries in first 15 tests
Christian Cullen - 23 tries in first 23 Tests
Doug Howlett - 10 tries in first 11 Tests
Jeff Wilson - 20 tries in first 24 tests

Do/Should we start automatically dropping wingers at 20 tests?

@bones that is the front! I swear he has gills and from the side it's a 1/3 the width! (Or maybe it was a stunt double). If I could be arsed I'd find the camera shot and send it to you...