All Blacks 2022

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@kiwimurph yea you wonder what it will take for anyone to 'break into' the ABs at present.

We need props to compliment Samisoni, a couple of ball running locks to break up the favoured Whitelock-BBR duo, another loosie to enter the mix, sadly I cant see any 8s that will allow Ardie back to 7 where he is more effective, despite how he plays, he throws out the balance at 8.

Our 9 depth is building, 10 is an issue, then the mid-field, we have centres, but 12 is a massive issue, I think Goodhue could work well there if he is played there consistently, but TUJ certainly looks a natural there.

Funny. I'm coming around to the Ardie at 8 thing. Especially how he is playing this year.

@booboo I dont think his play at super has ever been an issue, even in black he could be effective if we had the right guys to compliment him

Its just about getting the balance right, when at present in black we seem to play 3 6.5s

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@crucial well he throws it out because we dont really have a tight 6, actually we probably do, but none of the Super teams seem to play them that way, meaning we pick a loose 6 and 2 x 6.5s

Physically, Akira is the best to play tighter, but because he is so athletic, the temptation not to run him wide is too much I guess.

Yet we seem to have a hell of a lot of too short locks that like to tackle and hit rucks. I'd like to see someone like Selby-Rickett at 6. Big, physical, gets around.
Trouble is that Ardie is our best 8 by a long stretch and at least 3rd in ranking of 7s.
I'd rather find a 6 than have an average 8 and Ardie on the bench.

@crucial well like most things, seems pretty obvious from the outside, yet Fozzie and his team can't seem to see the right game plan to suit the players he is selecting.

Instead they are just picking a team regardless of how they are to play.

@taniwharugby Eddie Jones doesn’t hesitate to play locks at 6 as long as they like to tackle and cart the ball.

Is Sowakula eligible for the ABs? He is the form No.8 in the country at the moment.

I believe so. There was an article awhile back stating he wanted to play for the All Blacks. At the time I remember thinking it was incredibly unlikely. But you never know, if he keeps his form up, and a couple injuries occur, it could easily happen.

@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:

Is Sowakula eligible for the ABs? He is the form No.8 in the country at the moment.

Lol he’s been solid but nowhere near Ardie’s level of performance. As Dagg and Marshall put it, Ardie’s not only the best in the Canes by a long way but he’s the standout player in NZ across the first three rounds.

@canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:

Is Sowakula eligible for the ABs? He is the form No.8 in the country at the moment.

Lol he’s been solid but nowhere near Ardie’s level of performance. As Dagg and Marshall put it, Ardie’s not only the best in the Canes by a long way but he’s the standout player in NZ across the first three rounds.

Will Jordan would have an argument for best player in NZ

@canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

Lol he’s been solid but nowhere near Ardie’s level of performance. As Dagg and Marshall put it, Ardie’s not only the best in the Canes by a long way but he’s the standout player in NZ across the first three rounds.

AAAAH, AAAAAAHH, OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

@kiwimurph yeah he’s been brilliant aswell. Building a case for that fullback spot, that’s for sure.

@canes4life I think pita gus skill set is very good. If he can keep it going I think he provides more balance as an 8. He was great off the scrum, hits hard and he and Brad webber played the blues perfectly with that 8 9 heads up play.

He seems to play tighter than the other nz loosies. Maybe as the chiefs are still in a 1 33 1
I'm not sure on that though

Has no one else been impressed by Ainsley then?

Big, abrasive, hits hard on both sides of the ball and keeps busy. Scrummaging seems ok, but haven't paid much attention.

Can't be far off being eligible?

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo I dont think his play at super has ever been an issue, even in black he could be effective if we had the right guys to compliment him

Its just about getting the balance right, when at present in black we seem to play 3 6.5s

Agree. But I can see Sam as an our and out 7, who we didn't have for much of last year's, and I think Ardie can become an out and out 8 (like So'oialo, or Scott Robertson for that matter).

Find a tight 6 that offers a bit (Akira in the first half of last year, Jacobsen or some other big munter) and add the 6.5 (Dalton, Blackadder) to the bench.

@booboo none of those mentioned is an out and out 7, Ardie is probably the closest imo but I think in the eyes of our coaches, he is an 8 now, so that means Sam/Dalton at 7, Ardie is an 8 that can play 7 then Sotutu is probably our only specialist 8, with Jacobson more a 6/8 for me, while Akira is really only seen by them as a 6 but could be good at 8...

Haha round and round I go...

Against the top nations (SA, France, Ireland), I'd like a 6/2 split on the bench : one hooker and two props, of course, plus one lock and two loose forwards. During the first half, when things are tight up front, the LF trio could be Ioane + Cane + Sowakula, then when things open up a bit (around the 50th minute), A. Savea and another LF (Blackadder, Sotutu, Papali'i ?) could be injected. Savea is lethal against tiring defenses and would be even more if he is fresh.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo none of those mentioned is an out and out 7, Ardie is probably the closest imo but I think in the eyes of our coaches, he is an 8 now, so that means Sam/Dalton at 7, Ardie is an 8 that can play 7 then Sotutu is probably our only specialist 8, with Jacobson more a 6/8 for me, while Akira is really only seen by them as a 6 but could be good at 8...

Haha round and round I go...

Sam Cane?

@booboo he doesn't play like an out and out 7, more 6.5 imo

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Has no one else been impressed by Ainsley then?

Big, abrasive, hits hard on both sides of the ball and keeps busy. Scrummaging seems ok, but haven't paid much attention.

Can't be far off being eligible?

Is it as simple as a stand-down period after previously playing for Aust? I have been impressed with Ainsley's mobility and ball skills.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:

@booboo he doesn't play like an out and out 7, more 6.5 imo

Yeah and nah.

It's like the definition of a true all rounder at cricket: could said player be picked as a specialist in either role?

I'd not be happy with Sam at 6. He's a 7 and 7 only. Any of Ardie, Papalii, Blackadder I'd be happy with at either 6 or 7 (if required).

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Has no one else been impressed by Ainsley then?

Big, abrasive, hits hard on both sides of the ball and keeps busy. Scrummaging seems ok, but haven't paid much attention.

Can't be far off being eligible?

I was going to bring him up last week when people were going on about Jager. I thought Ainsley did a good job on attack against the Chiefs (ran for 27 metres, 2nd highest forward) but did get penalized a couple of times, and against the Saders he ran for 14 metres (8 runs) making him the busiest prop. I only remember one time he got in real trouble and gave up a penalty but I like his involvements on attack.

@gt12 yeah he's got good hands too, seems a solid option taker.

@old-samurai-jack yep. He shows more than Sotutu and adds more in grafting yards than Ardie. He always is breaking the gain line. Ardie then to 7.

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Can't be far off being eligible?

Ainsley played for the Wallabies in 2018 so should be eligible this year for ABs (three year stand down period).

I agree he's been impressive.

@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Can't be far off being eligible?

Ainsley played for the Wallabies in 2018 so should be eligible this year for ABs (three year stand down period).

That still doesn't feel right to me.

I want to see brave selections in 2022, not afraid to leave out established players, something like this:

1. De Groot

2. Taukei'aho

3. Mafileo

4. Rettalick

5. Whitelock

6. Vaa'i

7. Papali'i

8. Ioane

9. Smith

10. Barrett

11. Ioane

12. Umaga-Jenson 1

13. Umaga-Jenson 2

14. Jordan

15. Barrett

16. Coles

17. Williams

18. A.Moli

19. Barrett

20. Savea

21. Fakatava

22. Mo'unga

23. Lienert-Brown

Greater emphasis on size and physicality in selecting the starting XV, and a lot less limited Crusaders players.

@kiwi_expat I like the concept but you still have three old locks that are failing to make ground.

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

@kiwi_expat I like the concept but you still have three old locks that are failing to make ground.

Yeah, I just wanted to retain some experience in there somewhere. But Scooter isn't that old.

McWhannell, Parkinson, Ah Kuoi, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Fabian Holland, all need time to mature.

I just want players that fight for every inch and make the opposition do the same. The culling needs to be the passive runners and tacklers.

In that respect we need the likes of Ardie and Cane. Some argue that the balance is out but Cane at least makes runners fight for ground (as does Papali'i).while Ardie is all elbows and knees with great leg drive. I'd rather 5 metres from Ardie drawing in defenders to stop him than 7 metres from someone else that takes the tackle.
I get that AIoane can also attract defenders with a charge but his workrate and ground covered is nowhere near. Remember that the 8 is usually tasked with dropping back to support from a kick.

Definitely our old props need to go.
And there is no room at all for the likes of Bridge who cannot beat a tackle. Clarke and Reece can.

Edit: just checked some stats from ABs last year and Reece isn't much better than Bridge. Each only beat a defender once a game on average and it happens once every 7 runs.

Ioane beats defenders once every 4 runs at over 2 defenders beaten per game.
Jordan once every 4 runs at just under 2 per game
Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

The base numbers are arguable but are presumably consistent in the methodology of measuring so Jordan and Ioane are twice as good as Bridge and Reece.

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

@higgins said in All Blacks 2022:

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

That’s so 2018

@higgins said in All Blacks 2022:

@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Dmac beat defenders once every 2.5 runs at 2 per game

Are there separate statistics for defenders beaten whilst running forwards and running sideways or are they just all lumped together?

I thought @antipodean would have got in here with that comment first!

From the way he is going over here, I don't know that he'll want to come home. He's killing it, making heaps of cash, and is adored.

@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:

I want to see brave selections in 2022, not afraid to leave out established players, something like this:

1. De Groot

2. Taukei'aho

3. Mafileo

4. Rettalick

5. Whitelock

6. Vaa'i

7. Papali'i

8. Ioane

9. Smith

10. Barrett

11. Ioane

12. Umaga-Jenson 1

13. Umaga-Jenson 2

14. Jordan

15. Barrett

16. Coles

17. Williams

18. A.Moli

19. Barrett

20. Savea

21. Fakatava

22. Mo'unga

23. Lienert-Brown

Greater emphasis on size and physicality in selecting the starting XV, and a lot less limited Crusaders players.

If you play a lock at 6, then I think Selby-Rickitt looks to be more suited to that role.
I am not convinced by Mafileo. He is a strong scrummager and is absent in the loose. Ainsley is the form THP in the country.

I'd go with :

De Groot
Taukei'aho
Ainsley
Retallick
Whitelock
Ioane
Cane / Papali'i
Sowakula
Smith
Mo'unga
Clarke
T. Umaga-Jensen / J. Barrett
Ioane / P. Umaga-Jensen
Jordan / Ioane
J. Barrett / Jordan

Coles
Hogdman
Lomax
Barrett
Savea
Weber
B. Barrett
Fainganu'uku

@cgrant Ainsley played 3 time for the Wallabies in 2018 so likely not eligible. NZ born though.

@daffy-jaffy so he's now completed his 3 year stand down period and would therefore be eligible for the ABs?

@fakatavafuture Or has it now changed to five years? Then there was some Olympic loophole thing. I'm not up to speed with the latest rules.

@fakatavafuture said in All Blacks 2022:

@daffy-jaffy so he's now completed his 3 year stand down period and would therefore be eligible for the ABs?

He actually qualified last year, but as he was injured and didn't play, he has to wait for the 5 years, (end of this year) I think it starts from when he left college or something now too.

@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:

@fakatavafuture said in All Blacks 2022:

@daffy-jaffy so he's now completed his 3 year stand down period and would therefore be eligible for the ABs?

He actually qualified last year, but as he was injured and didn't play, he has to wait for the 5 years, (end of this year) I think it starts from when he left college or something now too.

Sounds like you're talking about Fakatava, not Ainsley.

@bones said in All Blacks 2022:

@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:

@fakatavafuture said in All Blacks 2022:

@daffy-jaffy so he's now completed his 3 year stand down period and would therefore be eligible for the ABs?

He actually qualified last year, but as he was injured and didn't play, he has to wait for the 5 years, (end of this year) I think it starts from when he left college or something now too.

Sounds like you're talking about Fakatava, not Ainsley.

Standard Fern diversion.

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks 2022:

@fakatavafuture Or has it now changed to five years? Then there was some Olympic loophole thing. I'm not up to speed with the latest rules.

5 years is to get residency for non born (or parents/g parents). Ainsley born in NZ, new rule that after 3 years of not playing test rugby you are then ‘re-eligible’ for your birth (parent/g parent) country. So Ainsley, born in NZ not played for wallabies for more than 3 years, is now eligible for ABs. Piutau, born in NZ but Tongan parents & hasn’t played for ABs for over 3 years, is now eligible for Tonga - etc. No need for Olympc loophole, which still works.