All Blacks XV 2022

@Crucial said in All Blacks XV:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

So, if those saying that because Levi is playing for MP he is therefore not available for NZ are right, then the decision to select Levi in this team is next level stupid. Or am I missing something?

It is dangling an option in front of him without commitment from either party. For him it is a good situation in that he can still decide whether to represent the country of his birth (NZ) or one that he is otherwise eligible for (Fiji/Samoa).
What is next level stupid about that?
It was announced early on that MP could have a small number of NZ eligible players. Levi fits into that group even though he is also eligible for other countries.

I thought the team was to give players a run in the lead up to the world cup, players that may be close to selection or in the minds of the selectors if injuries strike. If I am wrong about that then fair enough. But if I am not wrong why would you select a player who wasn't eligible or unable or unwilling to play for the ABs because of some technicality with MP. Wouldn't we be better off looking at someone else?

Edit: my argument is based solely on the claims that he cannot play for the ABs while he is with MP. I have no idea if those claims are right.

@Crazy-Horse no technicality with MP mate, you anyone can play for them, I mean Joe Royal played hooker for them, but couldn't play for Island team if he wanted, not eligible, not even sure if Lincoln McClutchie has Island heritage.

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

Edit: my argument is based solely on the claims that he cannot play for the ABs while he is with MP. I have no idea if those claims are right.

Playing for MP does not exclude you from playing for NZ (technically). In reverse they are meant to have 80% pasifika eligible players and can top up with NZ contracted. They are even allowed 3 that are NZ only eligible. Aumua falls into a category of being eligible but not locked to 3 countries. He is either expected by MP to front up if called on by a Pasifika country OR is one of the NZ players but by consequence is also eligible for elsewhere.
The restrictions are only about the makeup of MP so that they aren't a default 6th NZ side ie a Pasifika eligible player takes selection precedence over one that isn't.

Edit: If selected for the ABs he needs to make a decision AND MP need to decide if they have him in the 3 NZ only eligible player allowance.

@stargazer said there was an agreement about MP players

This is from earlier in the thread. If someone has time, maybe search for the original reporting about the agreement?

@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:

Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).

So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.

By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.

I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?

Parsons said that Aumua asked to be considered for selection for the All Blacks XV, so surely he would know where he stood re: MP.

@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:

@stargazer said there was an agreement about MP players

This is from earlier in the thread. If someone has time, maybe search for the original reporting about the agreement?

@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:

Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).

So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.

By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.

I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?

I can't find any reference of an agreement for NZ not to select dual eligible players that are in MP. Even if there was this AB XV is not a side that locks eligibility so his options are still open.
MP themselves say that they expect that players will remain eligible for pasifika nations while signed to MP but, as I posted earlier, they are also allowed 3 non eligible (eg Josh Ioane) players and up to 20% that remain dual eligible. Amua has no restrictions on him if he is part of that 20%

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks XV:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

As far as I can tell nobody is saying MP 'captures' a player. The way I have read things on here is people are suggesting there may be an agreement (a gentlemen's agreement?) that while players are playing for MP they won't be selected for the ABs.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks XV:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

As far as I can tell nobody is saying MP 'captures' a player. The way I have read things on here is people are suggesting there may be an agreement (a gentlemen's agreement?) that while players are playing for MP they won't be selected for the ABs.

Haven't heard that mate, just heard Bee Gee say players could go anywhere, but they preferred to have only 3 in squad who weren't making themselves available for Islands. But prepared to say I never looked into it deeply,

This is the first case showing that MP will act as a 6th franchise if the player is considered good enough.

Whether Aumua is good enough or not is another question.

He has size, I’ll admit, and is a dangerous player.

@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:

He has size, I’ll admit

You and your generous admissions.

@gt12 Aumua would be better at the Crusaders if he wants to be an All Black. Wonder if he could change franchise if he has a really good tour. He would also be a good backup at the Crusaders especially with Jack Goodhue coming back from injury.

@SBW1 I see you're suggesting a player go sit on the bench for the crusaders in a search for higher honours. Crafty.

@Bones Goodhue is taking a little longer with his recovery.

@Bones just commonsense. That way we have less minutes to view and criticise them and their reputation from training stats and Instagram pics becomes far more meaningful for AB selection.

@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:

@Bones just commonsense. That way we have less minutes to view and criticise them and their reputation from training stats and Instagram pics becomes far more meaningful for AB selection.

And of course any opposition can not analyse any weakness to exploit, it is Fozzie genius.

@SBW1 Goodhue is coming back? For how long?

@broughie TBF he did start in NPC but needed additional surgery, that I believe was only 'minor' and could have kept playing, but it was needed when it happend so he was fit for super...not sure he will make it back in black, but think he still has alot to offer otherwise.

@taniwharugby Fair enough but he needs to make his case on the field. A season of super rugby should be sufficient.