All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Tim they said 12 days and was announced the Monday after wasnt it, so game day would be 12 days, so I'd say zero chance he plays unfortunately.

Bower, ST, Laulala
Barrett, Vaii
Akira, Sotutu, DP,
Smith, BB
Goodhue, Reiko
Reece, Jordie, Jordan

That'd be my starting 15, I suspect I'll be wrong by at least 5 players.

Savea best player in 1st test, DP anonymous in the 2nd. It’s like saying Frizzell was awesome in SR so he must make the starting XV. Has DP yet had a very good game for the ABs against proper opposition.

Provided Retallick and Vaai are fit I’d probably go SB again at 6, since he’s a jumper. Otherwise Akira.

Sotutu has to be in the mix. PGS sadly has looked a bit overawed in both Tests off the bench.

Not sure if that would change if PGS was running on in the starting 15, but he's not (yet) good enough to warrant that.

I mean the first Q is is Cane still captain? If yes he starts at 7. If not then who is captain (whitelock will be out)? If you keep cane then imo it’s SB at 6 and ardie at 8 and I’d have sotutu and akira on the bench (SB covering lock, dont want PT anywhere near the 23). If you dump your captain then I’d put ardie at 7, sotutu at 8 and akira and DP on the bench.

TBH I think the tactics are more of a problem. You can change the team but if it’s just midfield bombs and wide passes from AS then result will be the same.

Foz has confirmed Clarke won't be fit.

So like Lord that's a second wasted spot in the original squad.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Foz has confirmed Clarke won't be fit.

So like Lord that's a second wasted spot in the original squad.

Also mentioned whitelock is a possibility, somehow

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Foz has confirmed Clarke won't be fit.

So like Lord that's a second wasted spot in the original squad.

At least we got to have a look at Faingaanuku and he got to learn some harsh lessons. I can't see him repeating that performance.

@Billy-Tell that us rhe team I'd pick.

@KiwiMurph Reece moves to left wing, Will from Harcourts starts on the right.

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Foz has confirmed Clarke won't be fit.

So like Lord that's a second wasted spot in the original squad.

Also mentioned whitelock is a possibility, somehow

Our turn to rush a player back in after a head knock out of desperation

@No-Quarter Worked for the Irish.

I think we'll go for something like this in Wellington:

1. Bower
2. ST
3. Laulaula
4. Rettalick
5. Whitelock
6. Barrett
7. Cane (c)
8. Savea
9. Smith
10. B Barrett
11. Reece
12. Tupaea
13. Ioane
14. Jordan
15. J Barrett
16. Coles
17. Ross
18. Tu'ungafasi
19. Sotutu
20. Papali'i
21. Fakatava
22. Mo'unga
23. Goodhue

@Canes4life not bad, but either swap QT and Goodhue or don’t have Goodhue in the 23.

We could really mess with the Irish and go

Bower, ST, Ta’avao, Vaa’i, Barrett, PGS, Papalii, Sotutu, Fakatava, Perofeta, Clarke, RTS, Fainga’anuku, Reece, Jordan

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

We could really mess with the Irish and go

Bower, ST, Ta’avao, Vaa’i, Barrett, PGS, Papalii, Sotutu, Fakatava, Perofeta, Clarke, RTS, Fainga’anuku, Reece, Jordan

You ok bud?

You'd figure that Foster will take account of who NZ are likely to face next weekend, with some players from the Tuesday match having to go again in the final test.

Ringrose was clattered and is out of the remaining games with mandatory stand down for HIA.
O'Mahony is also a doubt.
Sexton says he just has a leg injury but reckons he's ok.
Something tells me Lowe might not get a start. And/or Hansen.
Keenan is a lock-in.

Need lions first test style rugby.

I remember Read coming on to a few carries at fault tilt and steaming into the Lions tight defence.

Up the fucking guts.

Into the fluffybunnies.

@Mattasaurus sentences no one would’ve predicted in 2007…

Experienced, talented Refs are like gold. Hope we’re saying similar things about that young Georgian ref in 15 years time…

@Smuts said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Mattasaurus sentences no one would’ve predicted in 2007…

Experienced, talented Refs are like gold. Hope we’re saying similar things about that young Georgian ref in 15 years time…

Well we won't be saying it about Jac O'Peyper

@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

I can't see him repeating that performance.

Not unless he's a George Bridge clone

I'd expect Sami T & Vaii to start (if SW isn't available) with SB back at 6. Will Jordan back at wing. Toss-up between Goodhue & QT.

Fakatava on the bench and Perfofeta for Mo'unga?

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Has DP yet had a very good game for the ABs against proper opposition.

Yep he was awesome last year on the NH tour. Needs to start at 7 Big calls needed

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Has DP yet had a very good game for the ABs against proper opposition.

Yep he was awesome last year on the NH tour. Needs to start at 7 Big calls needed

Which games? Actually I now remember he was good Vs Ireland, didn't play France I think

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Canes4life not bad, but either swap QT and Goodhue or don’t have Goodhue in the 23.

I would not be surprised to see Havili at 2nd 5 but Goodhue is the more likely. Mo'unga at 10 to have a Crusaders combo? If NZ was already up 2-0 I was expecting the latter in the 3rd test.

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.

We can debate the foul play aspect all day long but both teams play under the same rules and smart teams will adapt and train players not to jump into charge downs. Try to get lower etc etc.

I am still slightly cynical just how much a difference coaching can make to these instincts and fast paced decisions but at some point, someone like Ofa, SB are ticking bombs in terms of cards.

Edit: O'Gara also said he instantly knew the Savea sub was an error and was surprised Foster and Co let it happen.

@chimoaus the fact so many seem comfortable, some even happy with red cards for accidental contact is a worry for me.

I saw on social media plenty saying LF shoulda been red...no way.

The drum I bang is reds are for filth, not accidental contacts through mis timing a jump, turning into a contact, bracing for a contact, the attacker dipping at the last moment...there has to be a better way.

Players do need to do better, coaches need to do better, refs and WR need to do better.

@taniwharugby Agree 100% but what we deem as foul play is different to WR and we need to play by the rules. I would assume as a coach you would be telling your players not to jump charge downs, don't try intercepts that are not on, tackle players without the ball etc. The head contact is always tough as AT was caught in a bad position, could he have done more? I don't know but the fact is under the rules AT was a red card.

I am just trying to think is there a smarter way to play under current rules to reduce the risk of cards.

Edit: I look forward to seeing what the judiciary outcome is for AT.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

The head contact is always tough as AT was caught in a bad position, could he have done more? I don't know but the fact is under the rules AT was a red card.

That is the problem, the rules are his is def a Red, but given how that happened, how quickly that happened, I am not sure much could have been done to mitigate, for either party involved, and yep, what happens to him at the judiciary will be very interesting.

Again, if you read social media, people say Reds for that kind of contact is a must to protect players...people need to realise accidents happen, no matter if you do everything correctly and within your contrrol.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.

We can debate the foul play aspect all day long but both teams play under the same rules and smart teams will adapt and train players not to jump into charge downs. Try to get lower etc etc.

I am still slightly cynical just how much a difference coaching can make to these instincts and fast paced decisions but at some point, someone like Ofa, SB are ticking bombs in terms of cards.

Edit: O'Gara also said he instantly knew the Savea sub was an error and was surprised Foster and Co let it happen.

Like I say. It's funny how often the same faces pop up - and the faces that never pop up. And yet it's zero fault of the players and all the blame lays at the feet of the officials. Go figure. I wonder why they never punish those guys that never do anything wrong even though it's unavoidable...

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

20 minute red cards may help the Super Rugby spectacle but they don't help prepare for test matches that don't have them. It doesn't help change behaviour. It's also hard to give this AB coaching group the benefit of the doubt regarding coaching the players to avoid cards given how they coach other aspects of the team.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.

I agree Leicester could have been red, but to say he didn't have a problem with Angus' red card has to be disingenuous. That or he wants WR to apply his playing days' approach to physical contact.

It's opinions like his that are making a mockery of rugby.

Here’s the team I think they’ll go with. No chance of mass changes or Cane being dropped.

1. Bower
2. Taukei’aho
3. Ofa
4. Retallick
5. Va’ai
6. Barrett
7. Cane
8. Ardie
9. Smith
10. Beaudy
11. Reece
12. Goodhue
13. Reiko
14. Jordan
15. Barrett

Res - Tu’unukuafe, Taylor, Nepo, Patty, Papali’i, Christie, Mo’unga, Tupaea

I’d love Akira to start but he hasn’t played in like a month? This assuming Whitelock is unavailable and Va’ai is fit.

@TheMojoman That looks about right but I reckon Havili is a better chance of the 23 jersey given his versatility.

@Bones has AT been carded for that sort of thing before? I can't recall. And LF?

@Crazy-Horse I don't remember Ta'avao ever having issues with tackle height before. And he is a tall prop.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Bones has AT been carded for that sort of thing before? I can't recall. And LF?

I don't know, but charging at a ball carrier at full height isn't often going to end well.

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.

I agree Leicester could have been red, but to say he didn't have a problem with Angus' red card has to be disingenuous. That or he wants WR to apply his playing days' approach to physical contact.

It's opinions like his that are making a mockery of rugby.

I don't think he was giving his opinion on if he believes it should be red, just that under current WR guidelines it was Red. There is a difference, and I guess a good coach is going to coach to the WR guidelines, not on their opinion.

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Official's

New Zealand v Ireland
Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
ARs: Karl Dickson (RFU) & Christophe Ridley (RFU)
TMO: Tom Foley (RFU

Have to say I'm pretty keen to see Barnes in the middle after his performance in the MAB vs IRE 1st Test. I thought he managed that game well.

Me too mate, I actually like the way Barnes refs, from what I have seen of him in NH comp looks to be a reasonably calm ref.

So who else is going to the test on Saturday?

@Dan54 I'm heading along so hopefully we put out an inspired performance.

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Given current WR guidelines re red and yellow cards do you think some teams have adapted better than others or is it pure luck?

Listening to O'Gara talk he said they spend a lot of time in the background covering these things and they are fully aware of the rules and outcomes. Said he though LF could have been red under guidelines and no issue with AT red.

I agree Leicester could have been red, but to say he didn't have a problem with Angus' red card has to be disingenuous. That or he wants WR to apply his playing days' approach to physical contact.

It's opinions like his that are making a mockery of rugby.

I don't think he was giving his opinion on if he believes it should be red, just that under current WR guidelines it was Red. There is a difference, and I guess a good coach is going to coach to the WR guidelines, not on their opinion.

I read it as he was giving us his opinion after he said Leicester's card could've been red. Telling us that something is what it was (Angus getting a red card) is simply stating a fact, not an insight.