An enterprising journo needs to get the good oil on what the players are thinking. Plainly, they are an unhappy crew. Foster pulling Cane 15 minutes before the final whistle in Wellington suggested he was trying to make his own captain the patsy for the tripe that was served up. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark Aotearoa.
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
There's a process to sort shit out?
@ploughboy said in Foster must go:
foster to stay to be joined by gatland and schmidt
That scenario would only work if Foster took up a "weekend at Bernie's" style role
No way he will do the honourable thing. His selection of hookers and reasoning for it tells you everything you need to know about his thought process and respectability.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
would seem ridiculous that his role wouldn't include KPIs around winning.
You would think so, but you'd be amazed at what's not included at top levels of management in failing organisations
SENZ: FORMER ALL BLACK PLEADS IAN FOSTER TO DO “WHAT’S BEST FOR THE TEAM” AND RESIGN
Former All Black Steve Devine has predicted Ian Foster will no longer be head coach by “6:30pm tonight.”
The national side lost their first series to Ireland in history on Saturday evening to cap off a disappointing year and a half of international rugby.
Under Foster’s leadership, the All Blacks have achieved just a 66.7 per cent win rate, which as the worst in the side’s professional history, has prompted many to call for his resignation.
Devine has weighed in on the situation and believes that if Foster wants to do what’s “best for the team” he should step down before August’s Rugby Championship.
“We have heard from the All Blacks for the last 30 years … it’s not about an individual, it’s about the player and it’s about what’s best for the team,” Devine said on SENZ’s The Rugby Run.
“So right now, what is best for the team … and if Ian Foster asks himself that question, I can’t see him being coach by 6:30pm tonight.
“What’s best for the team? That’s the question that needs to be asked right now.”
Devine has cited a lack of adaptability and enterprise as the main reasoning behind his call for Foster to resign, as the side has continued to make the same mistakes week after week.
With the Rugby World Cup just around the corner in 2023, the former national player believes it is best for the All Blacks to embark on a new direction without him at the helm.
“It’s the same mistakes every week,” Devine continued.
“We’re not winning the kicking battle, we’re not attacking … we’re big strong rugby players that play Super Rugby, who like to run and throw the ball around yet we turn up in an All Blacks jumper and we’re standing flat on attack.
“We’re not carrying and we’re looking around … it’s just not gelling.
“To me, I’ve had coaches that when it’s been good, everything is easy and everything goes well and when we’ve had coaches that haven’t been good, then that’s what we get.
“From where I’m looking, that’s what I’m seeing. It’s just not gelling at all.”
Following the All Blacks’ failure to front the media on Sunday morning, it seems decisions may be made around Foster’s future sooner rather than later
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
I’m fucking counting down.
@Kirwan said in Foster must go:
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
I’m fucking counting down.
It's getting close to pitchfork time
What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badly
We've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
It's also really important that the people that made the decision to appoint Foster instead of another more highly credentialed coach be held accountable for that decision. More than just Foster needs to go.
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
I thinkthere is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
you dont need "I think" in there, 4 losses form our last 5, and how many games in between the SA loss and the 1st Irish Loss in 2021, 3?, so 5 losses from our last 8 outings?
Take out Fiji, Tonga, USA and Italy in the past 24 months she is pretty bleak reading!
11 wins, 7 losses and a draw...57.9% win ratio
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badlyWe've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
We've been trying to combat the rush defence since 2017, it is the entire NZR and Hansen jobs for the boys shit that is the problem. Add to NZR's awful work with our 'closest' partners (SR shit), and internal stakeholders (Silverlake shit) points to them all resigning by 630!
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
Someone said there was an 0900 press conference this morning. Anyone got any sauce?
Also, continuing the theme, autocorrect press went to pies. Go Foster
I'm down with a pies conference. I'll even take one for the team.
I wonder how NZ would react if Razor did take over and the ABs were still bundled out in the WC quarters. Because that could still very well happen.
And I don't expect Razor to unlock the rush defence. The Saders have had trouble dealing with the Chiefs when they have executed their version of it well.
@junior said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
“There is a certain type of New Zealander on social media. Chances are they are commenting on this very story right now, probably making spelling errors and thinking that they represent a modern, common sense attitude towards the All Blacks and rugby in general. Chances are they haven't and won't actually read this either.”
I think he’s talking about old mate @Dan54 here
Never accept mediocrity mate, just don't pretend to know all the answers,I also know I have never yet seen perfection in a game. I just got home from test (stayed in Wellington etc), hey thats why I come in here to see what they are, and you will obviously be able to enlighten me. Lol
@SBW1 said in Foster must go:
@Chris Tamati Ellison as defense coach he has be phenomenal with the Crusaders. 200 plus tackles v the Chiefs setting a new Super Rugby record, what better credentials would he need.
Yes he has been Awesome he would be in the mix.
@Victor-Meldrew Are you Jeff Wilson in disguise?
He looks more like you every time I see him! 
#1 seems solid enough
We don't seem to choose our top hooker ST (and if he is 1st, 2nd and 3rd are getting old, 4th i.e. the new 2nd is up in the air, and we don't play the top hooker, ST, according to the vast majority of pundits in a must-win series)*
#3 prop -who is that?
#4 and #5 are trying but 80 minutes without a headfart seems harder and harder
#6 is Shannon if Foster could get away with it
#7 is a guy more banged up than David Carradine in Death Race 2000, his place isn't secure but his main contender would rather play 8 (DP?)
#8 is Ardie who could be the best forward impact sub in world rugby but wants to play 8 eveven though he sometimes plays like a 7 still
#9 is Aaron Smith who doesn't seem to have two good matches in a row and is getting slower [ok, this is probably a bit unfair on Aaron]
#10 is god knows
##11 and #14 Reece seems to play well at wing this season and so does Jordie but he is really a 15
#12 is unclear still
#13 is maybe Rieko who still looks great..on the wing..but defending is better, it is just passing to support that still seems a work on...and kicking and,.
#15 is Jordie who may be a 12 but isn't kicking as accurately as he used to be apart from conversions ...
Going into 2023, 1,9,11, 14, maybe 15, are the least contentious or unstable positions (maybe you add #8) ok 6/15 positions look relatively secure. Perhaps add Whitelock, 7/15. But given we are supposed to have a surfeit of great loosies our trio looks completely unsynchronised. Our use of the 10 (Richie or BB) is criminally ineffective and god knows what is the best midfield (or front row combo).
So I'd gather from that, most positions are up for grabs, don't have the best player, or have a player who should really retire or recuperate by 2023
*scratch that, must receive learnings-series
NB Foster has admitted previously that learnings have a limited shelf-life. Not sure how long they last though.
This article says it all:
@mencey said in Foster must go:
This article says it all:
Leave the jersey in a better place, fosters fucking up all 23!
@Machpants dunno, I listened to that this morning, Fozzie sounded broken.
@Crazy-Horse I think it all depends how we play.
While a loss should never be ok, if we had played well, but beaten by a better team, so be it.
Sure this Irish team is clearly pretty damned good, but the way we are playing, we dont even know how good they are, cos we are so poor.
@mencey said in Foster must go:
This article says it all:
For me just reads as another "Razor's the Savior" article by a bloke who thinks, somewhat arrogantly IMO, NZ players are a cut above the rest of the world when they clearly aren't anymore. Would have a bit more weight if he'd mentioned Robinson's U20 coaching fiasco in 2016 and while he might be a good choice, he doesn't walk on water.
No, the problems go much deeper than just the Coaching set-up and they need addressing as well.
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go:
#1 seems solid enough
We don't seem to choose our top hooker ST (and if he is 1st, 2nd and 3rd are getting old, 4th i.e. the new 2nd is up in the air, and we don't play the top hooker, ST, according to the vast majority of pundits in a must-win series)*
#3 prop -who is that?
#4 and #5 are trying but 80 minutes without a headfart seems harder and harder
#6 is Shannon if Foster could get away with it
#7 is a guy more banged up than David Carradine in Death Race 2000, his place isn't secure but his main contender would rather play 8 (DP?)
#8 is Ardie who could be the best forward impact sub in world rugby but wants to play 8 eveven though he sometimes plays like a 7 still
#9 is Aaron Smith who doesn't seem to have two good matches in a row and is getting slower [ok, this is probably a bit unfair on Aaron]
#10 is god knows
##11 and #14 Reece seems to play well at wing this season and so does Jordie but he is really a 15
#12 is unclear still
#13 is maybe Rieko who still looks great..on the wing..but defending is better, it is just passing to support that still seems a work on...and kicking and,.
#15 is Jordie who may be a 12 but isn't kicking as accurately as he used to be apart from conversions ...Going into 2023, 1,9,11, 14, maybe 15, are the least contentious or unstable positions (maybe you add #8) ok 6/15 positions look relatively secure. Perhaps add Whitelock, 7/15. But given we are supposed to have a surfeit of great loosies our trio looks completely unsynchronised. Our use of the 10 (Richie or BB) is criminally ineffective and god knows what is the best midfield (or front row combo).
So I'd gather from that, most positions are up for grabs, don't have the best player, or have a player who should really retire or recuperate by 2023
*scratch that, must receive learnings-series
NB Foster has admitted previously that learnings have a limited shelf-life. Not sure how long they last though.
Yeah I can't argue with any of that.Unless a new coach could resurrect a couple of the players who are fading.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@mencey said in Foster must go:
This article says it all:
For me just reads as another "Razor's the Savior" article by a bloke who thinks, somewhat arrogantly IMO, NZ players are a cut above the rest of the world when they clearly aren't anymore. Would have a bit more weight if he'd mentioned Robinson's U20 coaching fiasco in 2016 and while he might be a good choice, he doesn't walk on water.
No, the problems go much deeper than just the Coaching set-up and they need addressing as well.
Mate your post to me sounds like another chance to put down Robertson.
The bloke hasn't had a chance in the HC job yet,but has won almost everything he has coached.
Sure didn't have a good 2016 U/20 but that can be down to who comes through in what year.He won it in 2015 one of the 2 years he coached the u/20s.
Won 2 NPC titles only coached Canterbury for 3 years,Super titles 6 I believe..
He has one thing going for him he wins titles and the percentage of wins is a lot higher than Fosters.
As for addressing other issues besides coaching yep agree, but starting with a decent coach is a step forward hopefully the rest will follow.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@mencey said in Foster must go:
This article says it all:
For me just reads as another "Razor's the Savior" article by a bloke who thinks, somewhat arrogantly IMO, NZ players are a cut above the rest of the world when they clearly aren't anymore. Would have a bit more weight if he'd mentioned Robinson's U20 coaching fiasco in 2016 and while he might be a good choice, he doesn't walk on water.
No, the problems go much deeper than just the Coaching set-up and they need addressing as well.
Mate your post to me sounds like another chance to put down Robertson.
The bloke hasn't had a chance in the HC job yet,but has won almost everything he has coached.
Sure didn't have a good 2016 U/20 but that can be down to who comes through in what year.He won it in 2015 one of the 2 years he coached the u/20s.
Won 2 NPC titles only coached Canterbury for 3 years,Super titles 6 I believe..
He has one thing going for him he wins titles and the percentage of wins is a lot higher than Fosters.
As for addressing other issues besides coaching yep agree, but starting with a decent coach is a step forward hopefully the rest will follow.
I also wouldn't ever bag someone on their U20 record. Those sides come together last minute and you have very little control.
Cron had the Australia U20s in Georgia, and they didn't win - they had to deal with kit not showing up at all, last minute player withdrawals because provinces matter more apparently , and close losses when you have kids freeze in the headlights.
Nz setup might be better, but there is still a lottery element to it
@Chris Robertson is the leading contender, and I'd pick him to try and turn the ship around. He's got the best record of available people, and should get the keys. He's not zero risk though, I'd still like to see him succeed in a different environment. Sir Graham was right, but we're out of options
Like Deans, he's really only coached in a controlled healthy environment. Deans was reasonably toxic at the top level with Mitchell despite his success with the Crusaders.
It's also a fair point that the problem goes deeper than the coach. We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
Our biggest export seems to be coaches now, and rugby IP
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
Keep Ryan and Coventry in the country at all costs!
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
@Chris Robertson is the leading contender, and I'd pick him to try and turn the ship around. He's got the best record of available people, and should get the keys. He's not zero risk though, I'd still like to see him succeed in a different environment. Sir Graham was right, but we're out of options
Like Deans, he's really only coached in a controlled healthy environment. Deans was reasonably toxic at the top level with Mitchell despite his success with the Crusaders.
It's also a fair point that the problem goes deeper than the coach. We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
Our biggest export seems to be coaches now, and rugby IP
His players seem to love him. He comes across as a very real character, more open, a player's coach. I hope he gets his chance shortly and I hope his style translates, for all our sakes
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
It's also a fair point that the problem goes deeper than the coach. We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
is this self perpetuating by the type of play and players we have been selecting for the past 4 or 5 years and how we have been playign them?
Possibly become lazy, when almost all our tighties were superior in skill to almost any counterpart...maybe the success of BR & SW stunted the growth there, we stopped looking for ball runners in our front row, which to me has been a huge issue for BR & SW shouldering more load.
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
@Chris Robertson is the leading contender, and I'd pick him to try and turn the ship around. He's got the best record of available people, and should get the keys. He's not zero risk though, I'd still like to see him succeed in a different environment. Sir Graham was right, but we're out of options
Like Deans, he's really only coached in a controlled healthy environment. Deans was reasonably toxic at the top level with Mitchell despite his success with the Crusaders.
It's also a fair point that the problem goes deeper than the coach. We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
Our biggest export seems to be coaches now, and rugby IP
Yes I did mention I agreed it goes deeper than the coach but it’s a start.
Anyone coming in to replace Foster has risk because it could be a bigger mess than we can imagine.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
@Chris Robertson is the leading contender, and I'd pick him to try and turn the ship around. He's got the best record of available people, and should get the keys. He's not zero risk though, I'd still like to see him succeed in a different environment. Sir Graham was right, but we're out of options
Like Deans, he's really only coached in a controlled healthy environment. Deans was reasonably toxic at the top level with Mitchell despite his success with the Crusaders.
It's also a fair point that the problem goes deeper than the coach. We are not producing the quality of player we used to, and others are. This is particularly evident in the tight forwards. Addressing that is critical for NZ rugby over the next few years. We have to innovate and get back to the front of the pack.
Our biggest export seems to be coaches now, and rugby IP
Yes I did mention I agreed it goes deeper than the coach but it’s a start.
Anyone coming in to replace Foster has risk because it could be a bigger mess than we can imagine.
There are few options. All of the other contenders are contracted to other countries until after 2023. Unless the NZRFU risk throwing Gatland Schmidt and Fozz together
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Mate your post to me sounds like another chance to put down Robertson.
No, I'm commenting on the article which @mency kindly posted which pushes the idea that all the problems can be fixed at a stroke by signing a contract with one person. Because that is what the article is saying.
Sure didn't have a good 2016 U/20 but that can be down to who comes through in what year.He won it in 2015 one of the 2 years he coached the u/20s.
Then it would have been better if the author had made it clear Robinson has a 50% success rate at international level, don't you think?
As for addressing other issues besides coaching yep agree, but starting with a decent coach is a step forward hopefully the rest will follow
A new coach is part of the solution but to just hopefully think the rest will simply follow and deeper problems don't need looking at just doesn't cut it in the real world. I would suggest it's that type of thinking which has got us into the mess we're in.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Mate your post to me sounds like another chance to put down Robertson.
No, I'm commenting on the article which @mency kindly posted which pushes the idea that all the problems can be fixed at a stroke by signing a contract with one person. Because that is what the article is saying.
Sure didn't have a good 2016 U/20 but that can be down to who comes through in what year.He won it in 2015 one of the 2 years he coached the u/20s.
Then it would have been better if the author had made it clear Robinson has a 50% success rate at international level, don't you think?
As for addressing other issues besides coaching yep agree, but starting with a decent coach is a step forward hopefully the rest will follow
A new coach is part of the solution but to just hopefully think the rest will simply follow and deeper problems don't need looking at just doesn't cut it in the real world. I would suggest it's that type of thinking which has got us into the mess we're in.
I said hopefully will follow.
It’s better than this shit show carrying on.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Mate your post to me sounds like another chance to put down Robertson.
No, I'm commenting on the article which @mency kindly posted which pushes the idea that all the problems can be fixed at a stroke by signing a contract with one person. Because that is what the article is saying.
Sure didn't have a good 2016 U/20 but that can be down to who comes through in what year.He won it in 2015 one of the 2 years he coached the u/20s.
Then it would have been better if the author had made it clear Robinson has a 50% success rate at international level, don't you think?
As for addressing other issues besides coaching yep agree, but starting with a decent coach is a step forward hopefully the rest will follow
A new coach is part of the solution but to just hopefully think the rest will simply follow and deeper problems don't need looking at just doesn't cut it in the real world. I would suggest it's that type of thinking which has got us into the mess we're in.
I said hopefully will follow.
It’s better than this shit show carrying on.
If we stay this course more pain will surely follow. I'm ready to gamble
