So what did we learn from Bled2?

@Kirwan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@KiwiMurph QT is the likely unlucky one. Ignoring the injury, JB and DH are both kicking 12s.

I reckon they'll take four midfielders and barring injuries - you can probably lock in ALB, Rieko and Dave Havili - and then Goodhue, Tupaea, RTS and Jordie (and Ennor) floating about.

Despite the obvious excitement over Jordie's performance last night, I'll be more surprised than not if he's picked as a midfielder.

He may well be our best option at 2nd five, but he's also clearly our number one fullback. And against some opponents there's a shitload of merit in having a 6 foot 5 fullback.

Fozzie clearly wants him at fullback - and I've got some sympathy with that view - we've spent two years developing him there.

Now we're going to abandon the work we've been doing building combinations? Seems like that's what's been heavily criticised since 2015!

@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Kirwan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@KiwiMurph QT is the likely unlucky one. Ignoring the injury, JB and DH are both kicking 12s.

I reckon they'll take four midfielders and barring injuries - you can probably lock in ALB, Rieko and Dave Havili - and then Goodhue, Tupaea, RTS and Jordie (and Ennor) floating about.

Despite the obvious excitement over Jordie's performance last night, I'll be more surprised than not if he's picked as a midfielder.

He may well be our best option at 2nd five, but he's also clearly our number one fullback. And against some opponents there's a shitload of merit in having a 6 foot 5 fullback.

Fozzie clearly wants him at fullback - and I've got some sympathy with that view - we've spent two years developing him there.

Now we're going to abandon the work we've been doing building combinations? Seems like that's what's been heavily criticised since 2015!

I think BB has been the best performing fullback this year, and the combination with RM might actually be starting to work (side note, I wish RM would stop running around like a headless chicken, it doesn't work at Test level, jsut make a decision and go forwards....)

Last night may be the setup that gets the best out of our top players. JB makes space for both RM and RI outside him. He also has largest clearing boot out of the team, so we can use it more often.

And most importantly, JB is the best defender we've had at 12 all year. DH and QT miss a lot of tackles, as does RM. So it eliminates that softness, and helps RM's weakness.

@Kirwan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

Last night may be the setup that gets the best out of our top players. JB makes space for both RM and RI outside him. He also has largest clearing boot out of the team, so we can use it more often.

He's a big unit, too. 9 and 10 are small. Having a big 12 really helps. And Foley didn't like him coming down that channel all night.

@nzzp said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Kirwan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

Last night may be the setup that gets the best out of our top players. JB makes space for both RM and RI outside him. He also has largest clearing boot out of the team, so we can use it more often.

He's a big unit, too. 9 and 10 are small. Having a big 12 really helps. And Foley didn't like him coming down that channel all night.

You forget how it makes the game easier to have a big body running at the opposition 10. Foster may not want to mess with his plans by moving JB from 15 to 10. But sometimes you have to look at what happened and roll with it. I'd start JB on the NH tour at least in the toughest games to see if he can replicate what he did last night. Considering he stood out at 12 in a poor Canes team last season I'd back him to try and make the spot his own, it's not like he's never played there, this is no Cullen '99 or MacDonald '03 situation

@Nepia said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@antipodean said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Machpants said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.

I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.

Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.

AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.

Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather that a lightweight 12 and using like he is a heavier physical specimen! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.

Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?

Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.

We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...

All told, I think more positives than negatives.

That was a blown try, I was high up above the halfway line, and Ioane not passing was top level hungus, appalling decision. Almost dead cert try blown.

When he looked towards Jordan, Jordan was potentially obscured by Koroibete. Had Rieko had a subsequent look a split second later then he may well have.

If he had passed, and Marika had got in the middle to block the pass (which looked possible) then I bet many of the same people complaining he didn't pass would be complaining he did.

For me, and I am happy to be corrected on this because I have not seen a replay, but it is that RI did not appear to be even considering the pass that bothers me a little. Soneone mentioned above RI looked once and that was it. Ideally I would have liked him to have multiple looks and engage his periferal vision. It gives the defence something to think about. If he can develop this in his game he will be fantastic.

Unfortunately it's an art that not many players in NZ have mastered in recent times.

@Kirwan Beady and Jordie are very different fullbacks. I have quite a strong preference for what Jordie brings.

Of course, it's all fucking Jordie's fault. If he'd just signed with the Crusaders when Razor told him to he would have been playing second-five for the past five years!

@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Kirwan Beady and Jordie are very different fullbacks. I have quite a strong preference for what Jordie brings.

Of course, it's all fucking Jordie's fault. If he'd just signed with the Crusaders when Razor told him to he would have been playing second-five for the past five years!

Beauden can catch high balls at FB better than David Havili can offer anything remotely resembling a physical presence in midfield.

It wasn't just that Jordie was carrying hard and making big metres but was also putting in a big shift in defence as well. It made a huge difference.

@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Kirwan Beady and Jordie are very different fullbacks. I have quite a strong preference for what Jordie brings.

Really? The guy is a 12 playing fullback. He makes a bloody good fist of it but his whole game screams 12.

@KiwiMurph biggest boot in the squad, tallest back and good under the high ball, great defender, decent pace, creates space and not afraid to have a crack. It's the first two that pin him as a 1st pick FB imo. But I want him at 12 personally and like that he can drop into the pocket if needed.

Just about jizzed myself with some of those awesome flat passes. RI's weaker passing game gets offset by jordie throwing skip passes

@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

Beady and Jordie are very different fullbacks. I have quite a strong preference for what Jordie brings.

Sure, but then you have journeyman Havili at 12, no thanks.

Also we cannot underestimate how valuable a big, aggressive unit is at 12. And jordie loves the combative stuff so let's indulge him!

@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.

In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.

He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing

To be fair Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.England maybe will.

Saving this one

@MiketheSnow goddammit

@MiketheSnow said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.

In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.

He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing

To be fair Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.England maybe will.

Saving this one

I can feel the backlash already.

@MiketheSnow Hopefully we are not taking Scotland and Wales lightly or even Japan for that matter, they have beaten South Africa and Ireland. The last two England and Ireland will be season defining, I would expect us to be up for at least one of the last two.

@SBW1 said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@MiketheSnow Hopefully we are not taking Scotland and Wales lightly or even Japan for that matter, they have beaten South Africa and Ireland. The last two England and Ireland will be season defining, I would expect us to be up for at least one of the last two.

we do not play Ireland on the End of year tour.

@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@Kirwan Beady and Jordie are very different fullbacks. I have quite a strong preference for what Jordie brings.

Of course, it's all fucking Jordie's fault. If he'd just signed with the Crusaders when Razor told him to he would have been playing second-five for the past five years!

Beauden can catch high balls at FB better than David Havili can offer anything remotely resembling a physical presence in midfield.

It wasn't just that Jordie was carrying hard and making big metres but was also putting in a big shift in defence as well. It made a huge difference.

The thing I liked was that JB didn't do anything amazing and flukey but all the basics really well in a way that looks to work against other teams. How much was down to Australia? Don't know but at 12 he looks solidly promising rather than a flash in the pan.
My query might be if he slow down quickly with age given his size but that is a future problem.

Some typicaly bullshit raiting from rugbypass:

My own personal raitings:.

1. The Groot: 7.5. a couple of mistakes, but excellent scrum and mostly very good.
2. Taylor: 6. Better than last game, but still way to many mistakes.
3. Lomax: 7. Great scrum, decent defence, quiet on attack.
4. BBR: 7. Solid.
5. S Whitelock: 7. Scrum good, lineout ok, scored a try but offered little else on attack.
6. A Ioane: 6.5. Average.
7. Papalii: 7. Great defence, offered little in attack.
8. Savea: 7. Quiet game.
9. Smith: 7. Organized well.
10. Mo'unga: 6.5. Kicked well, although made a few poor decisions on attack.
11. Clarke: 6. Quiet game. Dependable from high balls.
12. J Barrett: 9. Should have been mom
13. R Ioane: 7.5. Dangerous on counter, but needs to learn how to pass.
14. Jordan: 8. Best game this year imo
15. B Barrett: 7.5. Good game.

@Chris Thanks did not know that. In that case I think they maybe better prepared and timing maybe better this year than last. They have a month off and a lot of players will probably get some game time at NPC level.

@Machpants said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:

I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.

I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.

Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.

AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.

Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather that a lightweight 12 and using like he is a heavier physical specimen! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.

Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?

Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.

We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...

All told, I think more positives than negatives.

That was a blown try, I was high up above the halfway line, and Ioane not passing was top level hungus, appalling decision. Almost dead cert try blown.

I've learnt that the ABs shape and accuracy first half was terrible, really. And Ozzie played like the ninth ranked team in the world, see we were 17 up somehow. Looked pretty bad live

That's interesting, watching it on TV it looked like Korobeti was definitely going to smoke Jordan from behind as soon as the pass was made, so it seemed an OK option to hold on.

Later in the game a similar pass was made to Jordie on a breakout, and he got tackled from behind immediately.