2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia

@antipodean

Unfortunately the Needle was retooled himself when it was totally unnecessary.
Dont think he lost a test as coach.
Coached a great brand of rugby too!

@MiketheSnow said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

Group think can and does work the opposite way too though

You only have to look at RWC matches where underdogs are refereed differently if the score is close

Minnow upsetting a giant
Minnow must be cheating

Not noticeable in the second Japan v Wales game. I thought Wales won fair and square and were reffed fairly.

Sorry. Not sorry.

@mohikamo said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@antipodean

Unfortunately the Needle was retooled himself when it was totally unnecessary.
Dont think he lost a test as coach.
Coached a great brand of rugby too!

Needle coached rugby that was played in early 60s, which if any AB team played now we would want him sacked. But the game was so different those days, and in reality there wasn't a real lot of running etc. But it was what it was , rugby of the era, I loved it, but not sure it would get many eyeballs today.

@nzzp said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste

This.

2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.

Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.

Yeah, was the beginning of the "end" we now find ourselves in for me.

The play acting from fans has extended to coaches and now the players.

I dont mind people disagreeing with a call, but dont do it in a disingenuous fashion.

Jamie Roberts was on Stan sports saying Tizzano was contacted on his upper back, when the green of his collar was visible above Morgans head....It could only be neck.

It's that sort of skullduggery that drives me mad. Its infuriating.

@Jet anyone who think it's the Lions fans only etc are being very selective. The biggest frustration is probably what we are on. Every Joe blog who watches about 20 minutes of rugby a year, can watch parts of games and decide what they want about results, and scream about it on the internet. Backed up by tv stations and comments people who love controversy to get people watching or listening. Pointing out only Lions supporters when we saw the absolute whinge fest we had from us kiwis after 2007 WC , or any other supporters means perhaps you are missing a lot. You remember the French ref stopping Wallabies for taking to long to kick ball out in test a couple of years back, but in general were pretty quiet with Tupaea's knee getting wrecked in same test. Mate it's almost all sports, and teams that I have seen.

@Dan54

Spot on. We all have them and it and which echo chamber you choose to inhabit. will inform your view about other fans etc. Which is the thing that keeps me coming back to this place -

1. We've got fluffybunnies from all over the world on here and

2. For every OTT, one eyed, jingoistic, we have 10 fairly level headed blokes and

3. We get a level of dialogue that sometimes actually changes a person point of view or at least softens it somewhat.

Although that is probably us all just getting older.

@Dan54 said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Jet anyone who think it's the Lions fans only etc are being very selective. The biggest frustration is probably what we are on. Every Joe blog who watches about 20 minutes of rugby a year, can watch parts of games and decide what they want about results, and scream about it on the internet. Backed up by tv stations and comments people who love controversy to get people watching or listening. Pointing out only Lions supporters when we saw the absolute whinge fest we had from us kiwis after 2007 WC , or any other supporters means perhaps you are missing a lot. You remember the French ref stopping Wallabies for taking to long to kick ball out in test a couple of years back, but in general were pretty quiet with Tupaea's knee getting wrecked in same test. Mate it's almost all sports, and teams that I have seen.

I wasn't referring to Lions fans only.

I mean the sport and audiences in general.

Things being sacrosanct until they arent is what gets me......and then vested interests (fans,pundits) hand waving it away.

SBW getting red against the Lions..fair.....Mako Vunipola smashing a prone Beauden Barrett in the face...yellow only.

I watched our captain get sent off in a World Cup final for a static tackle that didnt invalid the recipient.
Kolisi gets yellow for a tackle on Savea thats at least equal, if not worse in the same game.

I watched Dan Sheehan exocet himself into a ruck elbow first connecting with Lynaghs head.
Lynagh fails HIA.

TMO nowhere to be seen.

Taavao gets red for knocking himself out tackling Ringrose.
Porter gets yellow for breaking Retallicks orbital bone.

I could go on and on.

I feel like im being gaslit by refs, TMO's, pundits, other teams fans and the judiciary.

Winks and nods once your team gets the rub. Obfuscate and never give an inch.

I think we are getting close to Rugby having no sporting integrity. A roulette wheel week to week.
The man in the middle is the most important person on the field now....they used to be faceless and nameless drones.

Now they write books.

@Jet said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Dan54 said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Jet anyone who think it's the Lions fans only etc are being very selective. The biggest frustration is probably what we are on. Every Joe blog who watches about 20 minutes of rugby a year, can watch parts of games and decide what they want about results, and scream about it on the internet. Backed up by tv stations and comments people who love controversy to get people watching or listening. Pointing out only Lions supporters when we saw the absolute whinge fest we had from us kiwis after 2007 WC , or any other supporters means perhaps you are missing a lot. You remember the French ref stopping Wallabies for taking to long to kick ball out in test a couple of years back, but in general were pretty quiet with Tupaea's knee getting wrecked in same test. Mate it's almost all sports, and teams that I have seen.

I wasn't referring to Lions fans only.

I mean the sport and audiences in general.

Things being sacrosanct until they arent is what gets me......and then vested interests (fans,pundits) hand waving it away.

SBW getting red against the Lions..fair.....Mako Vunipola smashing a prone Beauden Barrett in the face...yellow only.

I watched our captain get sent off in a World Cup final for a static tackle that didnt invalid the recipient.
Kolisi gets yellow for a tackle on Savea thats at least equal, if not worse in the same game.

I watched Dan Sheehan exocet himself into a ruck elbow first connecting with Lynaghs head.
Lynagh fails HIA.

TMO nowhere to be seen.

Taavao gets red for knocking himself out tackling Ringrose.
Porter gets yellow for breaking Retallicks orbital bone.

I could go on and on.

I feel like im being gaslit by refs, TMO's, pundits, other teams fans and the judiciary.

Winks and nods once your team gets the rub. Obfuscate and never give an inch.

I think we are getting close to Rugby having no sporting integrity. A roulette wheel week to week.
The man in the middle is the most important person on the field now....they used to be faceless and nameless drones.

Now they write books.

And gift Jerseys to retiring players.

Games gone.

Attendances and audiences in Australia for the Lions tour. It all suggests the tour was a massive success.

I enjoyed the games a lot, which as someone who wanted both teams to lose says something about the quality. And the fact there was some controversy is even better.

Looking back, I have to think Aussie were robbed of a series win with the non-penalty in the second Test

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

I enjoyed the games a lot, which as someone who wanted both teams to lose says something about the quality. And the fact there was some controversy is even better.

Looking back, I have to think Aussie were robbed of a series win with the non-penalty in the second Test

Second time a south Pacific Lions series has been decided by a dubious reffing decision

Someone made a deal

@Kirwan Yes 100% to the first bit, but less so to the second paragraph.

I thought the Sheehan try was the most dubious one in that game. The Morgan clear out is the sort of thing that happens all the time and hasn't been penalised at the top level in a decade. Poor Australian defence was the main reason they lost that second Test.

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

the non-penalty in the second Test

That being the grass cutter tackle by the pom right? Followed by a red card and penalty try.

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

Someone made a deal

A raw deal

@Bones said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

the non-penalty in the second Test

That being the grass cutter tackle by the pom right? Followed by a red card and penalty try.

That too, was a crap call. Nothing worse than taking the time to look at it and still get it wrong

@sparky said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Kirwan Yes 100% to the first bit, but less so to the second paragraph.

I thought the Sheehan try was the most dubious one in that game**. The Morgan clear out is the sort of thing that happens all the time and hasn't been penalised at the top level in a decade**. Poor Australian defence was the main reason they lost that second Test.

Rubbish, missile cleanouts get penalised all the time, just not in the last minute by the looks of things

@Kirwan

Well they didn't much in the first 20 minutes when Aus were all over us. I was watching a review, might have been Squidgy, can't remember and there were quite a few that were almost identical to THAT clearout. Not a peep from anyone - not even Squidgy (if it was him).

@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Kirwan

Well they didn't much in the first 20 minutes when Aus were all over us. I was watching a review, might have been Squidgy, can't remember and there were quite a few that were almost identical to THAT clearout. Not a peep from anyone - not even Squidgy (if it was him).

Short version is two wrongs don't make a right. But the main difference is they didn't get reviewed, so when you take the time to review it, you should get to the right decision.

It's not a good argument to say they messed it up in all these other places too.

Should just go back to the law where you have to bind with another player to join a ruck like that, suck the forwards back into one area and get more space for the backs. If we are really worried about player health, a jackel with their head down getting smashed with some joining a ruck with downward momentum seems way more dangerous that accidentally touching someones head in a tackle.

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@sparky said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

@Kirwan Yes 100% to the first bit, but less so to the second paragraph.

I thought the Sheehan try was the most dubious one in that game**. The Morgan clear out is the sort of thing that happens all the time and hasn't been penalised at the top level in a decade**. Poor Australian defence was the main reason they lost that second Test.

Rubbish, missile cleanouts get penalised all the time, just not in the last minute by the looks of things

But regardless it was still poor defence that let in the last try. 5-6 players standing behind the ruck or whatever it was is the reason Keenen scored. Perhaps one of Wallabies biggest weakness (and I know I keep saying it) is how passive they get on defence. I bet Schmidt works on it quite a bit, it's just a mental thing.

And they had all that possession earlier in the half, the chance to put them away, and couldn't score

@Kirwan I can't refute any of that, what you say makes sense to me both on a player safety angle and in potentially making the game a bit more open. However...

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

Rubbish, missile cleanouts get penalised all the time, just not in the last minute by the looks of things

I hope you aren’t expecting me to be consistent with my arguments?

Was still a penalty though.

@Kirwan said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

I hope you aren’t expecting me to be consistent with my arguments?

This both made me laugh and so resonated with me. Maybe it is age - I have been on here for decades - but I am appreciating the unfiltered, yet amazingly sane commentary (from many but especially the old-timers) so much.