All Blacks 2024

@W32 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Windows97 SA definitely need to get younger players in. This group bar one or two players will be too old at the next WC. Will be interesting to see what the first test team post WC looks like

Perhaps we'll see a repeat of 2015-19. Boks getting beaten all over the place and then putting the pieces of the jigsaw together near RWC time.

On the AB side of things, there's a pretty strong core team for Robertson to build on and he has the time to get the team where he wants it. I'm more interested in the general direction the team is going in - depth, ability to handle pressure, etc - than in PR fluff or even results in the first season or two.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Rancid-Schnitzel I do think there's value in Razor connecting with the media and the public. Rugby really struggles to be fan centric and Razor is a breath of fresh air in that sense.

For sure. PR is a huge part of the job. But as I said, I'll judge based on actions and results not pretty words.

For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.

Aged like milk.

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

@nzzp oh yeah that guy. Maybe he's talking about the other Ben Smith that didn't make the ABs

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp exclude Nonu and I can't see the problem!

pffft, Ben Smith?

and a certain Stephen Donald cameo.

I mean, it's so spectactularly wrong it's funny.

And it's so spectacularly mean it's funny. I mean, it's saying 'you're the worst elite rugby player I've seen' FFS

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

I mean, it's so spectactularly wrong it's funny.

And it's so spectacularly mean it's funny. I mean, it's saying 'you're the worst elite rugby player I've seen' FFS

Except Highlanders. He could not even be bothered to watch them. Not like he is paid to do so as a professional sports journalist or anything...

@nzzp

On reading that, my first reaction was: "Who are most of these guys?"

Well the world cup has shown that regarding the AB squad we are there, or there abouts.
Super enthused about the level of interest in rugby at the WC. Great to see the passion from France, Ireland, Portugal ...
Ref support and TMO refinement is a major work-on for 2024.
Excluding this year the last 5 years have been a hard watch supporting the ABs most of the time. The top tiers of NZ rugby lacked clarity and organisation.
Super proud of the WC effort.
Razor not afraid to run his own path.
Next captain firstly has got to be an automatic pick in the team. S Barrett probably.
Massive year End of year tour in UK something I'm looking forward to.

@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

View embedded content

Strange is one of two locks with the size for test footy. The other being Parkinson. And the other is Sam Darry ...

Stranger things have happened but I have serious doubts about Darry's selection in the AB squad for 2024. He's not dominant in the NPC so the gap is huge with the international requirements. MSR, McWhannel and Sangster have a higher ceiling IMO.

@nzzp Rattue = dude who delivers bogus takes with high confidence in those bogus takes

@Victor-Meldrew I’m hoping things won’t be as dire as they were post 2015. Think a lot of that had to do with Allister Coetzee's non coaching and very poor team cohesion…. But they did lose a lot of senior players around that time as well. Rassie staying on is a good sign, maybe he has a plan.

@BerniesCorner I would love Scott Barrett or someone who is an automatic pick rather than Cane. Felt Dalton played well on the end of year tour 22 and did enough to usurp Cane. Had he played perhaps we would of won the final. Would've, could've should've.

@W32 It's sort of a pattern with the Bok coaches. One Bok coach will cap a lot of players and then the next two Bok coaches will primarily use those players (only adding a handful of squad players) during their tenures. At the end of that 10-year+ period, the cupboard is bare.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@W32 It's sort of a pattern with the Bok coaches. One Bok coach will cap a lot of players and then the next two Bok coaches will primarily use those players (only adding a handful of squad players) during their tenures. At the end of that 10-year+ period, the cupboard is bare.

SA rugby have dropped the "quota" system apparently. Hopefully that will result in color being a non factor in our rugby going forward....that should result in better outcomes all around. I think Rassie and Nienaber deserve credit for identifying, bringing in and nurturing talented players from disadvantaged situations. Kolisi being the obvious example. Honestly as an expat looking on I felt so excited when players like Kolisi, Mapimpi, Am, etc started taking on leadership roles in the team. A huge previously ignored pool of players showing us the way forward. Hopefully the shortsightedness of the past is behind us......

@W32 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Windows97 SA definitely need to get younger players in. This group bar one or two players will be too old at the next WC. Will be interesting to see what the first test team post WC looks like

Thanks as I'm not that familiar with the SA players aside form the fact they seem to beat us a lot.

However I would say SA is in the more enviable position of having 4 years to blood new players in preparation for the next RWC (albeit by the sounds of it they'll have to blood quite a few) instead of being forced to blood new players immediately in 2024 as they've had a huge exodus post the RWC.

Interesting the shift from "don't have the cattle" to great and optimistic starting point. Hopefully Razor can bring out the best in them.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.

Aged like milk.

View embedded content

jesus...that might be the worst thing ive ever seen written down

14.) BEN SMITH

The renaissance man according to southerners. Have to take their word for it, since my devotion to Super rugby doesn't often extend to watching the Highlanders. Looked fairly ordinary in his All Black stint compared with the Sivivatus of this world. As for being Ben Smith - All Black wings need handles like Josevata, Hosea, Rico, Rene, Rudi, Cory, Sitiveni, Zac, Israel, Jonah. Call it the Engelbert Humperdinck effect. Do you think Sonny Bill Williams would be Sonny Bill Williams if he wasn't Sonny Bill Williams? Come on. Try Benny Boy Smith-Wesson and just watch your career take off.

that article is funny for so many reasons

He picked too many low hanging fruit by naming one test wonders. Should have aimed at a few guys who got picked regularly
Ma'a Nonu was already Ma'a Nonu V2 by 2011
Stephen Donald? When Colin Slade had already been picked in that position?

Lauaki is plain wrong. People remember that Aus test that was the end of him, but overlook the work before that, and the fact he was a huge loss for that 2007 Qtr Final

I would expect a better list from some of the lessor trolls of this joint

Every time we have a go at Stephen Jones we should really stop throwing stones in our glasshouse and hang our heads in shame that we come from a country that actually pays Chris Rattue to write about Rugby.

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Every time we have a go at Stephen Jones we should really stop throwing stones in our glasshouse and hang our heads in shame that we come from a country that actually pays Chris Rattue to write about Rugby.

I accept no responsibility for him.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Every time we have a go at Stephen Jones we should really stop throwing stones in our glasshouse and hang our heads in shame that we come from a country that actually pays Chris Rattue to write about Rugby.

I accept no responsibility for him.

Apparently he spent a bit of time in the Bay as a youngster.

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Every time we have a go at Stephen Jones we should really stop throwing stones in our glasshouse and hang our heads in shame that we come from a country that actually pays Chris Rattue to write about Rugby.

I accept no responsibility for him.

Apparently he spent a bit of time in the Bay as a youngster.

Hopefully he was bullied mercilessly.

Did anyone catch that "Ineligible All Blacks XV" on stuff? Matt Proctor at 14?

If I was a NZR policy maker and I read George Bridge at 15, that would confirm to me that making overseas-based players eligible for the ABs would be DISASTROUS.

Leicester is the only real loss, but tbh test quality wingers emerge every few years in NZ.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp Rattue = dude who delivers bogus takes with high confidence in those bogus takes

Wish.com version of the walrus

@mariner4life oh come on, prior to the world cup Donald was one of the most "hated" guys in NZ rugby. Everyone read that bit and nodded hard.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@mariner4life oh come on, prior to the world cup Donald was one of the most "hated" guys in NZ rugby. Everyone read that bit and nodded hard.

Yep, NZ fans did themselves proud with that carry on.

I for one was thrilled he did what he did.

@Punch_up I'd hardly consider him a loss either as he only played 7 tests.

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Leicester is the only real loss, but tbh test quality wingers emerge every few years months in NZ.

FIFY

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@mariner4life oh come on, prior to the world cup Donald was one of the most "hated" guys in NZ rugby. Everyone read that bit and nodded hard.

I white knighted for him. thought he was under-rated... Hong Kong wasn't his fault. Fella got really unlucky.

Narratives stick though...

@nzzp I was also in that camp iirc.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp I was also in that camp iirc.

Same. I compared him to Bok legend Henry Honiball.

Years later I stand by this

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp I was also in that camp iirc.

Same. I compared him to Bok legend Henry Honiball.

Years later I stand by this

haha you're a mad lad. Honiball was excellent. Donald was a bit like Barnes - solid, but then had the odd stuff up each game.

@African-Monkey Yeah, I think Leicester will find that the landscape will have changed a lot in 18 months. Some wingers will have "runs on the board" (Ito number of test caps compared to his handful). The obligatory pair of uncapped young flyers making compelling cases for selection will be there. He might be looking up at Sevu Reece (who himself might be 5th in ABs wing pecking order at that time).

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Narratives stick though...

So do legendary moments: Beaver coming on in a size-too-small shirt, the ABs with a penalty and as nervous as buggery, and he simply says "Just give me the fucking ball"

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

For a blast from the past, I leave below Rattue's take on the worst XV of the Henry era - just prior to the 2011 RWC.

Aged like milk.

View embedded content

What a hateful article, just putting the boot into everyone.
Besides it being totally wrong, as some of those guys are now legends, just saying this crap about guys being given a shot in the AB's, through injury or coaches trying new things.
This kind of stuff just pisses me off.

@Darren Well congrats to very obvious troll Rattue on still getting bites after 12 years.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Narratives stick though...

So do legendary moments: Beaver coming on in a size-too-small shirt, the ABs with a penalty and as nervous as buggery, and he simply says "Just give me the fucking ball"

That hasn't happened at the time of the article obviously. But that game changed the narrative around Donald. Negative narratives take on a life of their own, and people stop seeing a balanced view of players.