All Blacks 2024

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

At the moment I don't think our shape affords him much space and time to use his threats as much as we'd like.

the last 3 games our midfield played very straight and very narrow to pull in defenders and free up Mo'unga to the loop. SA shut it down instantly the first time we ran it, so we just played straight and narrow.

Working out how to free up RI should the attack coaches first priority

@MN5

It was unfair to put him at 6 in the game against France.

I’ve said before that he is a light lock that players about 10kgs lighter than he is.

I suspect he is a little like Sotutu at this stage where they are seen as forwards who want to do the nice parts of their roles and need to embrace the shit parts like hitting ducks and opposition a lot more.

We don’t have many candidates for locks so we need everyone reaching their potential.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

I'm most excited about Telea. He was outstanding in France. Really hope he kicks on. The Jordie-Reiko combo also has huge potential even if Reiko is a better winger

I feel like the players that enhanced their reputation for the ABs and solidified their positions moving forward were Ardie Savea (for obvious reasons), Jordie Barrett, Tyrel Lomax, Cam Roigard, Mark Telea, Fletcher Newell, Tamaiti Williams, Reiko Ioane, Will Jordan and Scott Barrett. Those players will be the foundation for the ABs going forward IMO.

Taukeiaho

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

That young Riley Higgins from the canes looks ok

Ta. Will look out for him a bit more closely.

Any news on QT's recovery?

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?

I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Any news on QT's recovery?

He played half a dozen games in the NPC

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We all know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?

I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.

Six years is hardly forever

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.

Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.

I hope that's temporary, 2nd year stuff. His throwing seemed to go to shit this year while last year it was outstanding. An on-form Samisoni Taukei'aho is a real asset.

Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.

Who's KT?

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.

Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.

Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.

Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.

Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.

I think that’s a problem a lot of players have in terms of not achieving greatness

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.

We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.

Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.

I hope that's temporary, 2nd year stuff. His throwing seemed to go to shit this year while last year it was outstanding. An on-form Samisoni Taukei'aho is a real asset.

Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.

Who's KT?

@Victor-Meldrew personally I am happy with Ioane, he was strong on the carry and defense. He formed a good partnership with Barrett. He showed some good soft passes like the try for Savea against Ireland. I think the gameplan in the final was poor and he ended up pushing a few passes he shouldn't have and dropped a few pills. But generally I would keep them as a partnership and allow them time to grow. We have been blessed in the 13 jumper with Smith, Umaga and Bunce but we remember them at their peak. I would give Ioane time. I like having a physical threat at 13 who keeps the defense honest and creates more space for the wings because they can't drift outwards lest he scores like he did against France in 22.

@Bones I would add De Groot, he had 1 bad game but was solid in the final once our first choice frontrow was available. I would be happy to work with him going forward.

@Blunders

Agree with that. Needs to learn how to hold the ball better too. The likes of Conrad and Ma'a creates tries by how and where the held the ball.

@Blunders yeah he's come on hugely in his carrying into defence, so a definite string added to his bow. His option taking in space still needs work but hopefully he doesn't get used as much in the carrying into defence role and can get running some great lines at pace and develop his vision.

@Bones I think Taylor was excellent this year, although not as good in the final.

Agree though re ST not.being afforded the same opportunities to play back into form as Taylor did previously, when his form was considerably worse, but still doesn't take away from Taylor being very good this year.

@taniwharugby Nope not taking away from that, I just think ST woulda been better - and I can't help but feel Taylor's form last year help shaped how great we think he was this year too.

I really think that Aumua needs to be brought into the ABs this year - that would make a very strong group of hookers

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?

This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:

1. Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
2. I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
3. There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.

It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.

Possible bolters:

1. Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
2. Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
3. PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).

@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?

This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:

1. Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
2. I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
3. There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.

It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.

Possible bolters:

1. Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
2. Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
3. PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).

add to point 2 gideon-wrampling

@Punch_up

Great, thanks. Will watch out for these guys.

@Punch_up lol what? Have a crack at RI's distribution but JB is pretty good? That's a crack up.

JB is super limited in vision and passing. Bless him he's a big munter though

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Lord is no longer a twig. He was noticeably bulkier last year and he was physical to go with it. He just needs to outgrow his injury problems.

I don’t think Sam Whitelock is finished yet. I reckon he’ll go around again. Be back for the 2027 World Cup.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Lord is no longer a twig. He was noticeably bulkier last year and he was physical to go with it. He just needs to outgrow his injury problems.

He is bulkier, but he still has more filling out to do I think. I feel if you put him next to Retallick and Whitelock he would still look noticeably smaller.

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Get him onto the Ethan Blackadder workout schedule. That’ll sort him.

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Lord is no longer a twig. He was noticeably bulkier last year and he was physical to go with it. He just needs to outgrow his injury problems.

He is bulkier, but he still has more filling out to do I think. I feel if you put him next to Retallick and Whitelock he would still look noticeably smaller.

We've already had Retallick saying Lord is bigger.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Lord is no longer a twig. He was noticeably bulkier last year and he was physical to go with it. He just needs to outgrow his injury problems.

He is bulkier, but he still has more filling out to do I think. I feel if you put him next to Retallick and Whitelock he would still look noticeably smaller.

We've already had Retallick saying Lord is bigger.

Well he’s gonna sound like a cock if he says he’s smaller isn’t he ?

Of course Retallick is gonna talk up the newbie.

Lord looked bulkier to me this year, commented on it as soon as I saw him. he still looks to be filling out as is not unusual for a tall kid like him. One of reasons I like about Holland, he seems to have weight etc already.

Holland has good no-nonsense solid joints on him too, perfect for a lock.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Holland has good no-nonsense solid joints on him too, perfect for a lock.

Is he actually any good at rugby?

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@DaGrubster he has the physical size but he needs to show the grunt and consistency. Lord is a bit of a rake but has the height on his side.

Lord has a lot more than that on his side. I doubt there's a huge difference in the size of these two. There is a stark difference between their skills and athleticism though.

Height no, size yes. Parkinson is a unit, Lord still a bit of a twig.

Get him onto the Ethan Blackadder workout schedule. That’ll sort him.

He'll get bigger and gain the ability to walk on water.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@taniwharugby Nope not taking away from that, I just think ST woulda been better - and I can't help but feel Taylor's form last year help shaped how great we think he was this year too.

Yeah, I thought ST would be our starting hooker come the RWC and would be an absolute weapon. Definite black mark against Ryan there who seemed to have some bias towards Taylor.

@mariner4life I said "pretty good" not great. I should've added some context: In terms of the gameplan the ABs tried to play, they needed a big guy at 12 not David H. Although JB is suited to 12 physically and skills-wise, questions of creativity and vision (as you've mentioned) remain. Some of these areas for development are self-inflicte, BC Razor chose him at 12 but then he left for canes country and played mostly 15 and even 13 early on.

@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

Holland has good no-nonsense solid joints on him too, perfect for a lock.

Is he actually any good at rugby?

He showed potential for NZ U20 and Otago.... https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/126885745/meet-fabian-holland-the-teenage-dutch-lock-chasing-his-all-blacks-dream

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:

We've already had Retallick saying Lord is bigger.
Well he’s gonna sound like a cock if he says he’s smaller isn’t he ?

Considering BBBR is one of the biggest locks around, no.