All Blacks XV 2024

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Mr-Fish

Aumua needs pressure on him and Bell isn't providing that because he's ill disciplined and has an unreliable lineout.

There is plenty of Pressure on Aumua he is not doing much to retain his place in the squad.
There is pressure to stay there.

There's not plenty of pressure on Aumua.

They never give a 3rd hooker any game time regardless of how Aumua is playing

If they do Aumua is out once ST comes back

The point is that they don't. Bledisloe 2 seemed like a perfect opportunity to give Bell some game time but.... nothing.

Based on his super rugby campaign, Bell should have been sweating on his place in the crusaders not rewarded with an AB contract.

I would like to think super rugby get rewarded with a call up which is why RR should have been given a crack based on his super rugby form as he clearly deserved it.

Bell deserved nothing.

Yes he was fucken hopeless, and deserves all the criticism that comes his way. Most of his throws were ending up in the first fives hands. One of the worst campaigns you'll see from a hooker.

However, I do see the logic in picking a guy like Bell, and yes, it is Jason Ryan getting his boy in, but in saying that, we do need to bring some younger players through too, and if they can turn someone llike Bell into a world class player, then we're onto something going forward, so I'll back them on this one, but the criticisms of him are more than deserved at the same time.

As I've said before, it's so fucking dumb. Get an injury and you have a useless kid on the bench for a big game, while encouraging your depth to fuck off overseas.
Just change the internal rules, and allow yourselves to have young guys train with the squad without being in it.
Problem solved dickheads. No charge.

@African-Monkey the ABs are not a development side. Apparently the coaches didn't get the memo

@booboo said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:

Here's a wild crack at the squad of 29. Some will doubtless be wrong - probably even picking some injured or ineligible.

6 props: Bower, Numia, Ross, Renata, Dyer, O'Neill (a captain's call for McMillan - seems like less options at tighthead)

3 hookers: Riccitelli, Slater, McAlister (maybe Taylor)

3 Locks: Lord, Holland, Walker-Leaware

5 Loose forwards: Suafoa, Grace, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie

3 halfbacks: Hotham, Christie, Fakatava

2 First fives: Plummer, Jacomb

3 Midfielders: Higgins, Rona, Tupaea

4 Outsides: Narawa, Lam, Tavatavanawai*, Fihaki

*possibly injured - maybe Nanai-Seturo, but he may be injured as well?

Being my ever picky self... you've only got 1 x 7, and who are your 15s? Narawa and Fihaki?

I suppose Love could slot down to cover for a game.

Would have Sullivan Z in front of both Fihaki, and probably Lam.

Not many 7s in both squads.

@Chris-B

Seems you've addressed these (mostly) already ...

#booboo

So, do we think Sotutu 'hardest person to leave out of squad' will be in the group of XV that go to Japan... and will he say yeah nah to that possible time resetting cap?

Does anyone know what time this squad is announced?

2 pm again.

@Bovidae Cheers mate

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Mr-Fish

Aumua needs pressure on him and Bell isn't providing that because he's ill disciplined and has an unreliable lineout.

There is plenty of Pressure on Aumua he is not doing much to retain his place in the squad.
There is pressure to stay there.

There's not plenty of pressure on Aumua.

They never give a 3rd hooker any game time regardless of how Aumua is playing

If they do Aumua is out once ST comes back

The point is that they don't. Bledisloe 2 seemed like a perfect opportunity to give Bell some game time but.... nothing.

Based on his super rugby campaign, Bell should have been sweating on his place in the crusaders not rewarded with an AB contract.

I would like to think super rugby get rewarded with a call up which is why RR should have been given a crack based on his super rugby form as he clearly deserved it.

Bell deserved nothing.

Yes he was fucken hopeless, and deserves all the criticism that comes his way. Most of his throws were ending up in the first fives hands. One of the worst campaigns you'll see from a hooker.

However, I do see the logic in picking a guy like Bell, and yes, it is Jason Ryan getting his boy in, but in saying that, we do need to bring some younger players through too, and if they can turn someone llike Bell into a world class player, then we're onto something going forward, so I'll back them on this one, but the criticisms of him are more than deserved at the same time.

As I've said before, it's so fucking dumb. Get an injury and you have a useless kid on the bench for a big game, while encouraging your depth to fuck off overseas.
Just change the internal rules, and allow yourselves to have young guys train with the squad without being in it.
Problem solved dickheads. No charge.

He's not a useless kid. He had the throwing yips for sure, the other Crusader hookers did too, so hopefully it was a blip rather than an ongoing problem. Outside of that he has a handy all-round game and I can see why they want to invest time in him. I also suspect he has been earmarked as a future leader.

RR would be a stop gap measure and he would probably do a satisfactory job as a last resort. Many of us want Razor to be more adventurous with his selections and start thinking about the future, isn't Bell one of those selections?

EDIT: I just comprehended your call for people like him to be attached to the squad for training purposes. Financial constraints maybe?

@Crazy-Horse I am all for developing young players. I just see zero need to name kids who clearly aren't ready - what is the benefit?
Bell knows he hasn't earned it.
RR knows Bell hasn't earned it and he has been ignored.
If you had to play one of them during this RC, RR would have been the better option.

You're right, he's not a useless kid - he's a good kid - who has wrongly been given a man's spot.

If the selectors consider the AB XV as a development side, then the likes of Lauaki (THP), Taylor (hooker), Iose (LF), Haig (LF), Withy (LF), Millar (1st 5), Jacomb (1st 5), AJ Lam (utility back), Higgins (2nd 5), Tavatavanawai (wing), Naholo (wing) and Z Sullivan (FB) should be considered.

@cgrant said in All Blacks XV 2024:

If the selectors consider the AB XV as a development side, then the likes of Lauaki (THP), Taylor (hooker), Iose (LF), Haig (LF), Withy (LF), Millar (1st 5), Jacomb (1st 5), AJ Lam (utility back), Higgins (2nd 5), Tavatavanawai (wing), Naholo (wing) and Z Sullivan (FB) should be considered.

Agree with those except Tavatavanawai. Think his time is quickly passing him by as a potential All Black.

@Machpants

If he's left out I think that comment Razor made comes across as dishonest.

Isn't he injured?

This announcement will spark some interesting posts today.

@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:

This announcement will spark some interesting posts today.

What time is the announcement?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks EOYT:

@Chris said in All Blacks EOYT:

This announcement will spark some interesting posts today.

What time is the announcement?

2pm

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

@brodean I'm still hoping. If he's not, then I hope that someone asks him:

1. why the fuck not?
2. why the fuck not, given what you said about him last time you announced a squad?
3. if you don't think you can get value out of the Super player of the year, are you the right person to coach the ABs?

But then I'm used to hoping in vain.

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

Sotutu will be selected wether he takes up the spot is anyones guess if he has a shift overseas in mind, if he goes it will re set his 3 year stand down.

@Chris

Well I'll guess we'll see in a couple of hours.

Sotutu doesn't strike me as the type of guy to head over to England. He still extended his Blues contract after getting rejected last year. He seems to be fairly family reliant.

My list of players that I think should be lock ins to make it and ones I’d like to see. Just to be clear, I have heard nothing around this squad, this is just my personal list.

Lock ins:
Lakai
Numia
Jacomb
Plummer
Hotham
Holland
Lord
Narawa

Small tidbit. I know Z.Gallagher is rated very highly so don’t be surprised to see him named.

Ones I’d like to see:

• Jack Taylor - Some big talent and still a young age. Will only grow in these environments.

• Haig - Goes without saying with the chat around him this season and as we all know the ABs could do with a proper 6 that can cover lock at a pinch.

• Zarn Sullivan - Been knocked around by injury this year but one heck of a player who is in a bit of a Perofeta spot at the moment, is he a 10 or is he a 15. Get him in the environment for a closer look.

• Caleb Delaney - Quiet NPC season but huge in Super and went about his business. Could have a big future.

• Riley Higgins - Keep him in the midfield and he will continue to go up to another level. His chance to own the Canes 12 jersey with J.Barrett heading off too.

• Cam Millar - Touch and go here but a third 10 in the environment behind Plummer and Jacomb won’t hurt. Need as much depth as we can get here. Also think Plummer will link with the AB’s so a 3rd 10 will be needed. Talent is there, might just take another year or so to look comfortable.

• AJ Lam - no explanation needed here imo.

• Kini Naholo - See above

• JRK - See above. Also chat about him being tempted by Fiji, get him into the environment now! Massive talent.

• Brayden Iose - A stand out for the Hurricanes, deserves recognition and a chance to kick on.

• Quinn Tupaea - Unsure how well he has been tracking for Waikato as I haven’t watched all their games but we do know there is a player in there, injuries just slowed him down a bit. Keep him around for this tour.

• Hoskins Sotutu - We all know he deserves it.

• Lio-Willie - Undeniable form for Otago and the Crusaders this year. He deserves his spot.

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

Sotutu will be selected wether he takes up the spot is anyones guess if he has a shift overseas in mind, if he goes it will re set his 3 year stand down.

Not if he only plays for the XV it doesn't

@Chris are you saying Hoskins will be selected in the XV squad ?, or is this just what your thinking.

@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

Sotutu will be selected wether he takes up the spot is anyones guess if he has a shift overseas in mind, if he goes it will re set his 3 year stand down.

Not if he only plays for the XV it doesn't

I think those rules have changed.

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

ot.

Good list.

The only one I would question is Kini Naholo. I think there are others like Narawa or Stevenson who offer more.

Taylor has an excellent workrate but he lacks a bit of impact to his game.

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

Sotutu will be selected wether he takes up the spot is anyones guess if he has a shift overseas in mind, if he goes it will re set his 3 year stand down.

Not if he only plays for the XV it doesn't

I think those rules have changed.

Have NZR decalred the XV as second team? I haven't seen anything anywhere that says anything has changed, from either NZR or WR

@Chris said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Chris

I don't think anyone is expecting Sotutu to be there.

FIhaki will be in too even though Hutchinson has already surpassed him at 15.

Millar, Haig and Holland will also be new guys but they have talent worth investigating after being fairly consistent form wise and players who get regularly mentioned.

Sotutu will be selected wether he takes up the spot is anyones guess if he has a shift overseas in mind, if he goes it will re set his 3 year stand down.

Which could be the ulterior motive for his selection................(laughs evilly)

I don't think All Blacks XV is officially a second team.

I didn't think so either, I thought I remembered it being the Maori and thinking that was a bit odd given the eligibility criteria - but now I'm 2nd-guessing myself.

The ever-reliable allblacks.com says "The All Blacks XV was launched as NZR’s next senior national representative team after the All Blacks, as a critical high-performance pathway to the All Blacks. As the next senior national representative side, the All Blacks XV will have the same high expectations as the other Teams in Black."

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

I didn't think so either, I thought I remembered it being the Maori and thinking that was a bit odd given the eligibility criteria - but now I'm 2nd-guessing myself.

The ever-reliable allblacks.com says "The All Blacks XV was launched as NZR’s next senior national representative team after the All Blacks, as a critical high-performance pathway to the All Blacks. As the next senior national representative side, the All Blacks XV will have the same high expectations as the other Teams in Black."

But that doesn't answer if it is registered with WR as a capture team tho, that's just PR talk

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

ot.

Good list.

The only one I would question is Kini Naholo. I think there are others like Narawa or Stevenson who offer more.

Taylor has an excellent workrate but he lacks a bit of impact to his game.

My thought with Naholo were is he’s got the talent and we know the All Blacks love their power left wingers. Naholo fits the mold.

Jack Taylor is still only 21. Those little extras will come into his game with time.

If they are only taking the 2 Mako halfbacks then my bolter for this team is Leroy Carter

@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

I didn't think so either, I thought I remembered it being the Maori and thinking that was a bit odd given the eligibility criteria - but now I'm 2nd-guessing myself.

The ever-reliable allblacks.com says "The All Blacks XV was launched as NZR’s next senior national representative team after the All Blacks, as a critical high-performance pathway to the All Blacks. As the next senior national representative side, the All Blacks XV will have the same high expectations as the other Teams in Black."

But that doesn't answer if it is registered with WR as a capture team tho, that's just PR talk

Then we should refer to: https://www.world.rugby/organisation/governance/next-senior
Which has PDFs helpfully listing all the nations' 2nd teams!
For New Zealand, our 2nd team in 2024 is: N/A. And it's been N/A since 2020 when it was the Junior All Blacks.
What it is it with rugby admin and incompetence?

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Machpants said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@reprobate said in All Blacks XV 2024:

I didn't think so either, I thought I remembered it being the Maori and thinking that was a bit odd given the eligibility criteria - but now I'm 2nd-guessing myself.

The ever-reliable allblacks.com says "The All Blacks XV was launched as NZR’s next senior national representative team after the All Blacks, as a critical high-performance pathway to the All Blacks. As the next senior national representative side, the All Blacks XV will have the same high expectations as the other Teams in Black."

But that doesn't answer if it is registered with WR as a capture team tho, that's just PR talk

Then we should refer to: https://www.world.rugby/organisation/governance/next-senior
Which has PDFs helpfully listing all the nations' 2nd teams!
For New Zealand, our 2nd team in 2024 is: N/A. And it's been N/A since 2020 when it was the Junior All Blacks.
What it is it with rugby admin and incompetence?

That's not incompetence, you do not have to declare a second team. NZR obviously decided not to*, so Sotutu can play for XV with no risk to possible England rep, however if he is part of the extras that go to Japan - a different thing. However we have such a bloated number of loosies, that have hardly played, in the main squad probably won't happen

• there has been a bt of backlash against 2nd teams and capturing players, like those that could rep PI or other smaller nations stuck for 3 years, was permanently

@Machpants so the speculation on him turning it down for that reason has no basis then?

Yep, but he may turn down cos of possible main squad cap. Or he's too fucked off with how he's been treated? Or he doesn't get selected?

We might find out a bit soon

All Blacks XV leaked an hour early
Josh Bartlett
Xavier Numia
Saula Mau
George Bower
Ben Lopas
Ricci Ricitelli
Kurt Eklund
Soane Vikena
Fabian Holland
Josh Lord
Shneil Singh
Peter Lakai
Brayden Iose
Nikora Broughton
Hoskins Sotutu
Tom Christie
Noah Hotham
Finlay Christie
Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi
Harry Plummer
Josh Jacomb
Dan Hawkins
Riley Higgins
AJ Lam
Kini Naholo
Emoni Narawa
Drew Wild
Chay Fihaki
Timoci Tavatavanawai

I hope that ENS is fit to tour and is selected. Wing/fullback with a handy left boot.

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks XV 2024:

@Landers92 said in All Blacks XV 2024:

ot.

Good list.

The only one I would question is Kini Naholo. I think there are others like Narawa or Stevenson who offer more.

Taylor has an excellent workrate but he lacks a bit of impact to his game.

My thought with Naholo were is he’s got the talent and we know the All Blacks love their power left wingers. Naholo fits the mold.

Jack Taylor is still only 21. Those little extras will come into his game with time.

I don't think Naholo will be far away.

The other thing that should be pointed out with this NZ XV squad, is the further down the levels you go, the more players of equal ability you get, so naturally there are going to be many players who could have easily been in this squad that won't be... and I don't think that means they are out of the frame for the ABs either.

If someone like JRK (who I expect to miss out) rips it up in an improving Highlanders team next year, then he could easily jump the queue. Same goes in the loose forwards. Tight five, halfbacks and midfielders does feel quite settled for the foreseeable though.