Highlanders 2025

@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.

@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:

@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.

Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.

@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:

@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:

@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.

Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.

Nibble on the line!

With the squad basically settled, think our team looks interesting. Like most years, suspect what we start the year with will look quite different to the end of the year:

1. de Groot (c)
2. Taylor
3. Ma'u
4. Dunshea
5. Holland
6. Haig
7. Withy (vc)
8. Broughton
9. Fakatava
10. Millar
11. Tangitau
12. Umaga-Jensen
13. Tele'a
14. Tavatavanawai
15. Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
16. Bell
17. ?
18. ?
19. Howden
20. Lasaqa
21. Stodart
22. Arscott
23. Gilbert

I'm not normally a fan, particularly with the injury prone midfield we have, but particularly for games with the other NZ sides, an explosive 6-2 split where we can bring on a fresh loose forward trio could be a great option.

Note: I'm picking Renton and Nareki to start the season, before being slowly phased out - and obviously injuries will pay a part, and pretty much everyone in the squad will get a chance at some stage

The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)

@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:

or is that wishful thinking

I think there’s definitely potential but looking at your proposed back five, I would think that many of the same issues of the past few Highlanders’ seasons would persist. In that back five, there are plenty of good lineout targets and a lot of hardworking defenders but I’m not sure there are enough dynamic carriers who can make a lot of metres.

I’ve taken a quick look at some NPC stats of your proposed starting locks and loosies (RugbyPass stats, so not very precise but still), focusing on their number of carries, metres made and average metres per carry. This was the resulting table (opposition in the final column):

Broughton stands out, both in total number of carries and average metres per carry, which is to be expected of a number 8 I suppose. But he’s having a great season for Bay of Plenty. The others put up solid enough numbers. The second row of Holland and Dunshea might lack a carrying threat, though. Dunshea had one game against Waikato where he racked up a lot of metres but in others, like against Canterbury, he doesn’t make a carry. Holland offers a good work-rate but doesn’t make a lot of metres per carry (0.9).

Compared to other Super Rugby second row options (for example, the Blues with McWhannell (avg. 7.4 carries; 15.2 m; 2.09 m/c), Beehre (avg. 8.8 carries; 16.4 m; 2.56 m/c), and Suafoa (avg. 16.2 carries; 24.8 m; 1.58 m/c), not to mention someone like Tuipulotu), this might be a little too light as a carrying unit. I’d argue that the lack of ball-carrying forwards – the Highlanders front row doesn’t really offer a lot there, either – was a real problem last Super Rugby season as well (Holland and Dunshea combined for 7 carries and 9 metres made in last year’s quarterfinal against the Brumbies).

One interesting option would be to play someone like Oli Haig at lock. This would open up the blindside spot for someone like Hugh Renton (avg. 15.6 carries; 37.2 m; 2.26 m/c), allowing the carrying duties to be more evenly distributed among the back five. It would make the Highlander attack less predictable, instead of relying too much on a single player (Harmon last year, Broughton this year) to make something happen.

@Mauss great stats and thanks for the effort. I think a lot of the carrying stats for the Otago NPC players is offset by an incredibly poor game plan. A lot of those players are more than capable of big runs but the one off carries off 9 and lack of dynamic attacking play past the 3-4 phase gives little room for the forward to get into space.

The likes of Holland, Haig, and Withy are all very good runners and decisions makers in open space, and good at passing and offloading. I think a decent game plan will help them a lot.

Only apprehension with Broughton is that he makes the good run but lacks in the physicality department, particularly on the offensive ruck.

@KiwiInLondon Yeah, you could well be right about the Otago game plan. I also looked at Stodart's carry numbers and it's quite similar: high volume of carries with not a lot of result. The Otago gameplan is quite conservative, especially in the opposition 22, resorting mostly to the pick and go.

I do think someone like Holland, if he wants to make the step up to the next level, will have to show a little more when carrying into contact. A bit more aggression and leg drive, and I think he would become a very complete player.

@Mauss agreed. Jamie Joseph will help them take the next step up. They’re big lads but they need direction.

@Mauss When you remember Holland is still only 21, I am sure he will be fine. In the right structure, his ball carrying numbers will jump - he can certainly carry on the eye test.

@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:

@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:

@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.

Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.

i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak

@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:

@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:

@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:

@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.

Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.

i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak

I used to think this, was plausible, but I actually think the bigger thing that screwed Gilbert over was that ACL injury. He initially shook it off pretty well, but in the space of two years all his pace has gone. He would be a liability as an outside back now I think, which is a shame.

@frugby without doubt, definitely one of those that came back from injury without the confidence in his body

i just also think it wont have helped coming back being uncertain of how and where exactly he was going to be playing

@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:

The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)

Injuries will be key. Because of depth, de Groot, Holland and Fakatava pretty much have to stay fit for us to have any chance of competing at the business end.

We have a reasonably good draw I feel, so if we can hit the ground running them, definitely a good chance at the Top 6.

I’d love another big enforcer in the loose forwards, just like how the chiefs singed Jerome Brown. And possibly another classy centre.

Just piggy backing off what @frugby has posted above. As I posted in the Canes thread, the Howden signing is confirmed. Just asked and had the confirmation. Just cross posting incase someone misses it.

Hope the landers have a plan to sign another First Five. Can’t fully rely on both these young fellas

@HLD2023Champions Miller is fine and is good and has the potential to be great. Falefega is an idiot who’s should go back to club rugby (why no one sees this is beyond me).

Exactly what I mean. Just need another 10 to cover Miller with a bit of experience..

@HLD2023Champions what’s Carter up to these days?

@KiwiInLondon at Chemist wharehouse, in all seriousness I guess Aaron Cruden would be the experienced 10 to ask if he's keen.

Jack of all trades, master of none Sam Gilbert will be the third 10. Hurley at a stretch will be the fourth

@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:

Falefega is an idiot

Why's that?

@Bones his decision making is absolutely atrocious. The chip and cross fields kicks in pressure situations, the miss tackles. I could go on

@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:

@Bones his decision making is absolutely atrocious. The chip and cross fields kicks in pressure situations, the miss tackles. I could go on

I haven't been watching NPC unfortunately. The way it was phrased sounded more like dickhead off the field than awful decision maker.

@Bones said in Highlanders 2025:

@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:

@Bones his decision making is absolutely atrocious. The chip and cross fields kicks in pressure situations, the miss tackles. I could go on

I haven't been watching NPC unfortunately. The way it was phrased sounded more like dickhead off the field than awful decision maker.

He's a good Christian boy. Just a player learning his game. With fewer than 10 NPC games. Making mistakes on the field doesn't make him an idiot. Heck plenty of idiots have been flawless rugby players.

@SouthernMann idiot was more meant as idiotic decisions. Not a comment on his character

As I said. He has played fewer than 10 NPC games. There have been games where he has looked good. Others where he hasn't. He will be there next year. Good to see you have somewhat changed your tune on Hurley, after he was your initial whipping boy.

The more I watch of Millar, the more I think he actually might have the potential to be an All Black first five. Incredible goal kicker, and such a low error rate. Has added a bit of a running game, and has shown playmaking through passing.

After starting the year on fire for the Highlanders, Faleafaga has unfortunately just got worse and worse. I think he is the sort of player who would get better with time in the saddle, but with Millar in front, I don't see where he gets a chance unless there is an injury... I tend to agree that at this stage it would be crazy to go into the season relying on Faleafaga as your only viable backup.

@SouthernMann I still think he prone to brain farts that could prove costly but his running lines and kicking has been v good. Can’t fault him for that. Decision making is still a massive issue imo. I worry whether in a tight game against top opposition he has the cool head to close it out

@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:

The more I watch of Millar, the more I think he actually might have the potential to be an All Black first five. Incredible goal kicker, and such a low error rate. Has added a bit of a running game, and has shown playmaking through passing.

After starting the year on fire for the Highlanders, Faleafaga has unfortunately just got worse and worse. I think he is the sort of player who would get better with time in the saddle, but with Millar in front, I don't see where he gets a chance unless there is an injury... I tend to agree that at this stage it would be crazy to go into the season relying on Faleafaga as your only viable backup.

If Faleafaga comes right though, bloody good 1-2 punch, with good variety when it comes to horses for courses.

@Bones said in Highlanders 2025:

@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:

The more I watch of Millar, the more I think he actually might have the potential to be an All Black first five. Incredible goal kicker, and such a low error rate. Has added a bit of a running game, and has shown playmaking through passing.

After starting the year on fire for the Highlanders, Faleafaga has unfortunately just got worse and worse. I think he is the sort of player who would get better with time in the saddle, but with Millar in front, I don't see where he gets a chance unless there is an injury... I tend to agree that at this stage it would be crazy to go into the season relying on Faleafaga as your only viable backup.

If Faleafaga comes right though, bloody good 1-2 punch, with good variety when it comes to horses for courses.

No doubt. I said earlier this year he reminded me a bit of Mo'unga with his eye for a gap and turn of pace. There was a reason why he bolted into the 10 jersey at the start of the year.

Joseph might be the man to nurture him... it took Sopoaga four years to fully grasp it, having been flung in at the same age, so definitely not writing him off.

If Michael Manson doesn’t get a Highlanders contract after that season, the scouting team must be blind and only see shitty Otago players.

@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:

If Michael Manson doesn’t get a Highlanders contract after that season, the scouting team must be blind and only see shitty Otago players.

It'll probably depend on his American deal. I'd like to see him involved for the pre-season at least. Is similar to Jonah Lowe at his peak. Seeing as we now have Jonah Lowe well past his peak.

Could be injury cover for Lowe, but we are all signed up in the outside backs. Has good raw pace, but may lack a bit on defence and elsewhere. A more shrewd move, would be trying to steal Hutchinson from under the Crusaders nose, because if JRK were to head overseas at the end of next season, then we are left with Hurley...

Who was the counties right wing in the Roigard return game? Based purely off one try he looked bloody swift.

Blake Makiri

@Bones said in Highlanders 2025:

Who was the counties right wing in the Roigard return game? Based purely off one try he looked bloody swift.

I thought the same thing from a Canes POV. Him and Mosese Leo look rapid and wouldn’t look out of place in Super.

@Canes4life Moses Leo off to Melbourne Storm

@mikedogz said in Highlanders 2025:

Blake Makiri

Just watched the rest of the highlights, he's definitely worth a look at SR.