All Blacks vs Fiji

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

We need more munters in the forwards,

they've picked big bodies - but our carrying is terrible.

Only rewatched the first half, but one of the reasons I think that PT and Finau struggled to carry was because they are the only ball carriers - so you get targetted by the defence.

IT's like lineouts, if there are only 3 options the defence can really target you. I think that's why we were so cute trying to throw to Ardie all the first half (spoiler: it didn't work)

Yeah forward pack weight is often higher than opposition, munters is an attitude, aggression and micro skills (at this level) thing

The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.

@Machpants

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.

That is a real worry

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.

It is easy to pick off one out runners no matter what their size or skill. Easy pickings for a good defense.

Yes our attack pattern is very predictable. Need more variety. Different angles, pick and go etc. Not holding my breath though.

Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?

just saw someone point out if DMac plays this game it will be his 50th cap....anyone else surprised hes only played 49 tests? feels like hes been around forever

Noticed Finau out wide for AB's at times, like they want to use him running hard at backs more than as a one off runner. Will be interesting to see who is hitting it up v Fiji and where. AB's attack v England reminded me of the Blues in last couple of years before Vern Cotter got things working much better.

@Kiwiwomble debuted as a replacement against Pumas as a 21 year old in 2016. Was a regular starter in 2017 but then Jordie replaced him at FB and he became a bench option since then. Also missed all of 2019 to his knee injury and 2020 was a truncated Covid season. So, although he debuted 8 years ago, he's really only played 5 full seasons of international rugby - mainly as an impact player.

@dogmeat it all makes sense...im just surprised, honestly would have said he was well on his way to a 100

Yeah I was also surprised given how quickly players can rack up 50 caps. Whitelock did it in 4 seasons.

68 players counting DMac will have 50 caps. Only 15 of them played amateur test footy and that includes Mehrts and Kronfeld who debuted just as rugby went professional.

de Groot has more caps that Buck FFS

@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

de Groot has more caps that Buck FFS

thats mad, never looked it up but you assume legends like that, even in the amateur days, could have 50

One of the things that really irritated me pre-WC was us going away from one of Hansen/Henry's positive strategies, which was to not run out a total B team in the easier tests. You learn nothing, you gain no useful combinations. It's either just charity minutes to give everyone a chance to participate in elite sport, which is a joke, or everyone needs a rest, in which case it shouldn't have been scheduled and isn't a proper test. Hopefully Robertson reverts, and only makes a few changes and not too many in any one unit.

Lomax, Aumua, De Groot
Vaii, Barrett
Savea, Sititi/Blackadder, Finau
Ratima, McKenzie
Jordie, Ioane
Narawa, Perofeta, Reece.
bench: newell, ofa, taylor, blackadder/sititi, proctor, whoever else.

@reprobate agreed in principle but i think proctor should get a run, midfield is something we've need to work on for a while...RI is what he is (world class in some aspects and never going to change others)....so lets test the other options

@Kiwiwomble I don't agree with the Ioane selection, Fiji is the perfect opportunity to give someone like Proctor a go to see how he performs at the next level. On form Ioane doesn't deserve to start all three tests to kick off the year. Proctor deserves his opportunity after been super consistent the last two years and it will be great to see an out and out centre back in the jersey again, noting that the distribution to our outsides has been poor so far.

@Canes4life ....so exactly what i was saying then? give Proctor a run?

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life ....so exactly what i was saying then? give Proctor a run?

Yeah sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Was more responding to those selecting Ioane. Don't see the point. Ioane will get another opportunity, likely against Argentina.

Starting Proctor outside Jordie is also a no brainer considering their form in Super.

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.

Bummer.

Needs better coordination

we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU

@Kiwiwomble I don't disagree at all that Proctor deserves a chance, but as of right now i think at least one wing and the halfback need to change more, and would like to retain some combinations.
Likewise in the forwards it would be nice to see the other props get a shot, but a very poor lineout and Taylor not going great make Aumua more of a priority.
And I would like to see what both Blackadder and Sititi can offer, but preferably not both at the same time.
It's a new team, new systems, and every game early on is an opportunity to build continuity - so once you've picked a side you don't want to make wholesale changes - which is also a reason I was disappointed with the conservative initial selections.

@mariner4life think that disconnect has been there for many years, made worse in the last decade or so.

Darry in for Patrick in the squad to rest Patricks body. Full squad travelled

Proctor and Clarke put up for the press, so assume that means they are starting.

I did hear that the team will still be named on Thu. They wouldn't want to break with tradition!

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.

Bummer.

Needs better coordination

we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU

I'm guessing this is to do with Silverlake's strategy for growing NZ Rugby and especially its revenue.

If we could get 1/100th proportion of American kids wandering round in $55 All Black caps that cost $5 to make - as there are NZ kids wandering round in NBA caps - then probably there's $50 million bucks.

These are made up numbers - but, there are 8 billion people wandering the planet and a good proportion of them would like to have a stylish black cap. NZ Rugby and Silverlake just need to work out how to make sure it has an AB logo on it.

These sort of games are a start.

@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.

Bummer.

Needs better coordination

we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU

I'm guessing this is to do with Silverlake's strategy for growing NZ Rugby and especially its revenue.

If we could get 1/100th proportion of American kids wandering round in $55 All Black caps that cost $5 to make - as there are NZ kids wandering round in NBA caps - then probably there's $50 million bucks.

These are made up numbers - but, there are 8 billion people wandering the planet and a good proportion of them would like to have a stylish black cap. NZ Rugby and Silverlake just need to work out how to make sure it has an AB logo on it.

These sort of games are a start.

that made me a little sick

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.

Bummer.

Needs better coordination

we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU

I'm guessing this is to do with Silverlake's strategy for growing NZ Rugby and especially its revenue.

If we could get 1/100th proportion of American kids wandering round in $55 All Black caps that cost $5 to make - as there are NZ kids wandering round in NBA caps - then probably there's $50 million bucks.

These are made up numbers - but, there are 8 billion people wandering the planet and a good proportion of them would like to have a stylish black cap. NZ Rugby and Silverlake just need to work out how to make sure it has an AB logo on it.

These sort of games are a start.

that made me a little sick

Well it's either that or all (rather than a few) our good players are offshore domestically, as we can't pay enough - professionalism

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@mikedogz said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

This game is being played at 2:30pm Saturday NZ time. Right when a lot of club finals are being played.

Bummer.

Needs better coordination

we're paying a home game against Fiji in the US. The wants or needs of the NZ rugby public actually matter fuck all to the NZRU

I'm guessing this is to do with Silverlake's strategy for growing NZ Rugby and especially its revenue.

If we could get 1/100th proportion of American kids wandering round in $55 All Black caps that cost $5 to make - as there are NZ kids wandering round in NBA caps - then probably there's $50 million bucks.

These are made up numbers - but, there are 8 billion people wandering the planet and a good proportion of them would like to have a stylish black cap. NZ Rugby and Silverlake just need to work out how to make sure it has an AB logo on it.

These sort of games are a start.

that made me a little sick

Well it's either that or all (rather than a few) our good players are offshore domestically, as we can't pay enough - professionalism

because rugby economics make no sense. players are paid far to much given the broadcast revenue they generate.

@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Darry in for Patrick in the squad to rest Patricks body. Full squad travelled

So - why not name him in the squad? Weird only taking 3 locks

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

Darry in for Patrick in the squad to rest Patricks body. Full squad travelled

So - why not name him in the squad? Weird only taking 3 locks

especially as they now have to pay him anyway

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Kiwiwomble I don't disagree at all that Proctor deserves a chance, but as of right now i think at least one wing and the halfback need to change more, and would like to retain some combinations.
Likewise in the forwards it would be nice to see the other props get a shot, but a very poor lineout and Taylor not going great make Aumua more of a priority.
And I would like to see what both Blackadder and Sititi can offer, but preferably not both at the same time.
It's a new team, new systems, and every game early on is an opportunity to build continuity - so once you've picked a side you don't want to make wholesale changes - which is also a reason I was disappointed with the conservative initial selections.

I'd argue that the Barrett/Proctor combination is more comfortable than the Barrett/Ioane combo so I don't see too much risk having an extra newbie in there.

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

The carry metres from our starting pack don't make for good reading, particularly de Groot and Lomax who appear to have made 1 m between them in 6 carries.

It is easy to pick off one out runners no matter what their size or skill. Easy pickings for a good defense.

Especially off the glacial service Christie provides.... Literally let's the D set...the has a cuppa , then passing well back to our ball runners... very frustrating

@Canes4life that's fair, but rieko ought to have more established combos with telea, reece, perofeta, BB.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life that's fair, but rieko ought to have more established combos with telea, reece, perofeta, BB.

Except I think only Beaudy will start from that lot this week.

@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.

I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.

I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.

what you disagree with is not that at all, because a few new faces is exactly what i'm advocating for - it's just that your boy proctor isn't one of the few new faces i'd pick right now.

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:

@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.

I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.

what you disagree with is not that at all, because a few new faces is exactly what i'm advocating for - it's just that your boy proctor isn't one of the few new faces i'd pick right now.

You just said wholesale changes mean you learn nothing and I'm disagreeing with you. You could change out the whole team, it's still test rugby and you will always learn a thing or two about a player on this stage.

Re Proctor, that's totally fine, you're allowed your own opinion. I think it's the perfect opportunity to throw him out there to show what he's got without the pressure of coming up against the tough opponent. I assume he's in the picture anyway after fronting the media.