@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Cane especially was like Henry bringing the Suitcase back into the team as much for his value off the field. But, Cane actually did a fairly decent job on the field this year if anti-Cane blinkers are removed.
Seemed slow against Australia to me but played well against others, like Ireland. Perhaps a compliment to Australia's loosies.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant do you think Razor will drop a Barrett?
No, but JB could take the 15 jersey. He was very good at fullback for Leinster vs Clermont in every aspect of this position.
They already have their Sexton replacement too.
That Sam Prendergast is absolutely mustard and better than any 10 we have knocking around on our shores. The way he takes it to the line is a joy to watch. He's not particularly fast and not obviously strong but he has an eternity on the ball.
He is better than the current iteration of Barrett and McKenzie already.
The difference is NZ has a lot of quality talent coming through in the forwards (Sititi, Lakai, Va'ai, Numia, Tosi, Holland etc..), Ireland is struggling to replace the old guard who are busted flushes.
Beating Ireland shouldn't be used as a measuring stick, Argentina almost pipped them at home, Ireland were absolutely woeful against them and Australia.
Ireland have found a generational 10 now though during/since the A.I's. One we didnt face.
Crowley, Byrne and Frawley wont get a look in anymore.
This Prendergast lad is legit.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
WTF is happening in this thread? @cgrant we tried him at 15, it wasn't great. @SBW1 you want to change him to a third position, when he's never been a very composed player and his boot isn't highly accurate in the field of play.
Yeah the ‘he has to play he’s a Barrett’ argument is getting ridiculous.
He’s already played 10 briefly, let’s have a fresh start in 2025 and put him at halfback. His height will be a real point of difference
> Jordie really is some lump though. He doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Beaudy in the gas station CD bin yet.
This sojourn up north might help him tighten up some of the loose shit. Bread and butter rugby.
He has been carrying and tackling with prejudice. Great to see.
Himself and Rieko don’t work as a combo though. Don’t want to see it anymore.
He’s very tall which by default makes him heavy. Let’s not pretend he’s some unstoppable machine though.
Many other midfielders edge him in terms of power to weight
He is throwing his weight around plenty up north in his two games so far. Its noticeable.
Probably havnt given him too much instructions to overload him. He is carrying and tackling hard.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet I think NH teams tend to use 12s more direct like that, while we, post Nonu want a creative 12, despite having JB, but when we had Laumape, we used others to play like him, but not him.
He played 15 yesterday.
Leicester Fainga'anuku looks in cracking form for Toulon. I know he is rejoining the Crusaders in 2026 so why not picking him for the All Blacks in 2025 if he is playing well enough?
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Leicester Fainga'anuku looks in cracking form for Toulon. I know he is rejoining the Crusaders in 2026 so why not picking him for the All Blacks in 2025 if he is playing well enough?
Because he would be contracted to Toulon and not NZR.
We don’t know what is in his contract that may stop him playing for the ABs.
He is playing at centre isn’t he? Would Razor select him at centre or wing?
What are his strength and conditioning like. Is he carrying any injuries that we don’t know about?
If he plays in July for the ABsz will he play in the Rugby championship? If so, when is his off season?
I know you want to take advantage of Nz players for the ABs but this shows how hard it would be to select players from European leagues for the AB season
@DaGrubster He's signed a contract with NZR to play Super Rugby so his situation is different to most "overseas" ex-All Blacks.
He looked in great condition today so I'm not worried about that.
I'd let him train with the squad at the very least so he can get up to speed with the new players and the current coaching set-up. Leicester F and Jordie B after playing the whole northern hemisphere winter will need their minutes managed, but we'd be mad not to consider picking them.
Personally I think we need to be creating more competition for places in the All Blacks backline not less.
I think we would be mad dragging him in over form super players. Guys like Procter and Narawa deserve those chances
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS If they play well in Super Rugby, they will be in the squad too. The advantage Leicester F has is World Cup experience.
Hopefully Leicester has developed a passing game. If not, and he gets into the AB midfield, it will be more of the same.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster He's signed a contract with NZR to play Super Rugby so his situation is different to most "overseas" ex-All Blacks.
He looked in great condition today so I'm not worried about that.
I'd let him train with the squad at the very least so he can get up to speed with the new players and the current coaching set-up. Leicester F and Jordie B after playing the whole northern hemisphere winter will need their minutes managed, but we'd be mad not to consider picking them.
Personally I think we need to be creating more competition for places in the All Blacks backline not less.
Yeah I agree the more players to pick from the better.
No doubt both will in the squad sometime in 2025.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS If they play well in Super Rugby, they will be in the squad too. The advantage Leicester F has is World Cup experience.
What advantage is that? Playing against the might of Namibia and Uruguay?
Leicester needs to play in New Zealand against his peers to demonstrate his competitiveness for a All Black squad call up.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS If they play well in Super Rugby, they will be in the squad too. The advantage Leicester F has is World Cup experience.
You know how players get experience? Playing them
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS If they play well in Super Rugby, they will be in the squad too. The advantage Leicester F has is World Cup experience.
What advantage is that? Playing against the might of Namibia and Uruguay?
Leicester needs to play in New Zealand against his peers to demonstrate his competitiveness for a All Black squad call up.
thank you, i had the same thought but couldn't actually for a reply..."experience" is becoming a trigger for me
also, is making the squad really enough reward when most of our incumbents locked in starters
Leicester also played and scored against Ireland in a Rugby World Cup Quarter Final.
Leicester won four super titles playing against other NZ players and he's looking not bad against the best players Europe has at club level.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant do you think Razor will drop a Barrett?
No, but JB could take the 15 jersey. He was very good at fullback for Leinster vs Clermont in every aspect of this position.
They already have their Sexton replacement too.
That Sam Prendergast is absolutely mustard and better than any 10 we have knocking around on our shores. The way he takes it to the line is a joy to watch. He's not particularly fast and not obviously strong but he has an eternity on the ball.
He is better than the current iteration of Barrett and McKenzie already.
The difference is NZ has a lot of quality talent coming through in the forwards (Sititi, Lakai, Va'ai, Numia, Tosi, Holland etc..), Ireland is struggling to replace the old guard who are busted flushes.
Beating Ireland shouldn't be used as a measuring stick, Argentina almost pipped them at home, Ireland were absolutely woeful against them and Australia.
Ireland have found a generational 10 now though during/since the A.I's. One we didnt face.
Crowley, Byrne and Frawley wont get a look in anymore.
This Prendergast lad is legit.
Prendergast has looked flakey at test level. He makes NPC level mistakes.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Leicester also played and scored against Ireland in a Rugby World Cup Quarter Final.
Leicester won four super titles playing against other NZ players and he's looking not bad against the best players Europe has at club level.
and those are good points (although things from over a year ago start to fail in relevance)....but "experience" just means almost nothing
When was the last time the AB slectors picked on form? 2015?? It almost seems like but a distant memory...
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant do you think Razor will drop a Barrett?
No, but JB could take the 15 jersey. He was very good at fullback for Leinster vs Clermont in every aspect of this position.
They already have their Sexton replacement too.
That Sam Prendergast is absolutely mustard and better than any 10 we have knocking around on our shores. The way he takes it to the line is a joy to watch. He's not particularly fast and not obviously strong but he has an eternity on the ball.
He is better than the current iteration of Barrett and McKenzie already.
The difference is NZ has a lot of quality talent coming through in the forwards (Sititi, Lakai, Va'ai, Numia, Tosi, Holland etc..), Ireland is struggling to replace the old guard who are busted flushes.
Beating Ireland shouldn't be used as a measuring stick, Argentina almost pipped them at home, Ireland were absolutely woeful against them and Australia.
Ireland have found a generational 10 now though during/since the A.I's. One we didnt face.
Crowley, Byrne and Frawley wont get a look in anymore.
This Prendergast lad is legit.
Prendergast has looked flakey at test level. He makes NPC level mistakes.
he is only a nipper. he has all the tools
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
- Leicester also played and scored against Ireland in a Rugby World Cup Quarter Final.
Yes he did, but hardly a Jules like finish against the French was it?
- Leicester won four super titles playing against other NZ players and he's looking not bad against the best players Europe has at club level.
Form in New Zealand. Not what they did years ago. Or should we bring back Bridge, Havili, Blackadder, oh wait...
@antipodean I am not arguing that Leicester F is one of the great players of all time, but he is playing well enough and has enough talent to a part of the All Blacks squad once eligible.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I am not arguing that Leicester F is one of the great players of all time, but he is playing well enough and has enough talent to a part of the All Blacks squad once eligible.
I'm not saying you're wrong in your judgement of his current form in comparison to the other options - I'm just saying he needs to prove it in the same competition.
@antipodean Nah, form in the top European club competitions counts for something as the quality of the rugby is vaguely similar to SR these days, but I'm more sceptical about the value of the Japanese domestic competition, as any sort of preparation for playing All Blacks rugby. It seems a lot less intense.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I am not arguing that Leicester F is one of the great players of all time, but he is playing well enough and has enough talent to a part of the All Blacks squad once eligible.
Except you're currently arguing for him to be included in the squad when he's not eligible.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster He's signed a contract with NZR to play Super Rugby so his situation is different to most "overseas" ex-All Blacks.
He looked in great condition today so I'm not worried about that.
I'd let him train with the squad at the very least so he can get up to speed with the new players and the current coaching set-up. Leicester F and Jordie B after playing the whole northern hemisphere winter will need their minutes managed, but we'd be mad not to consider picking them.
Personally I think we need to be creating more competition for places in the All Blacks backline not less.
Yep Sparky, isn't he only signed for Super from 2026? Think he would have to play NPC before he can play for ABs if that is the case.
I will add haven't seen him play in any games apart from weekends, so don't know how he is going anyway.
@Dan54 He has mostly been doing okay for Toulon in the Top 14, although yesterday was his first game for a couple of months. The part I am unsure about is when his playing responsibilities for Toulon end. Is it July 2025 or December 2025? I've seen his contact with them described as an 18-month deal.
lol who cares about Lester, we’ve got better centres in NZ that can’t even get a shot.
If anything, Lester would probably suit 12 more where he can use his power but again there’s better players coming through.
@Canes4life It would be good to have him as injury cover at 11 for Caleb Clarke. He might do a job ahead of ALB as a midfield impact off the bench, but Billy Proctor and Quinn Tupaea are likely to be in the mix too.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia He's only not eligible because NZR say so. I'm saying he should at least be allowed to train with the squad next year and maybe be considered for some of the Tests next year (e.g. the EOYT). There are precedents for this happening with returning players.
Yeah, and so what? It's up to NZR to determine who is eligible.
Why should NZR have to pay the costs of having an ineligible player train with the squad? And if he negotiates a deal with NZR to be eligible on the EOYT then good on him, but as it currently stands he isn't eligible because he chose to go to the NH on a permanent contract.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean Nah, form in the top European club competitions counts for something as the quality of the rugby is vaguely similar to SR these days, but I'm more sceptical about the value of the Japanese domestic competition, as any sort of preparation for playing All Blacks rugby. It seems a lot less intense.
I agree that Japan is a shit proxy for SR, but you're arguing that overseas players should be able to walk into the All Blacks.
You're Razor and I claim my $10.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean Nah, form in the top European club competitions counts for something as the quality of the rugby is vaguely similar to SR these days, but I'm more sceptical about the value of the Japanese domestic competition, as any sort of preparation for playing All Blacks rugby. It seems a lot less intense.
I agree that Japan is a shit proxy for SR, but you're arguing that overseas players should be able to walk into the All Blacks.
You're Razor and I claim my $10.
With his flood of posts on multiple threads if he's not Razor I think he's LF's player manager.
@antipodean Nope. I don't surf and I don't hate Hoskins Sotutu (or Akira Ioane).
I just want to see the All Blacks leave no stone unturned in reclaiming the Number 1 spot and winning back the Webb Ellis trophy.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I am not arguing that Leicester F is one of the great players of all time, but he is playing well enough and has enough talent to a part of the All Blacks squad once eligible.
I'm not saying you're wrong in your judgement of his current form in comparison to the other options - I'm just saying he needs to prove it in the same competition.
A bit like how Ardie and Beaudy proved their form in Japan translated into test level oh wait...
I have no problem with Leicester being in consideration once he is eligible for the ABs
However - I would have an issue with him leap frogging consistent domestic performers in the midfield who don't get an opportunity at test level.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean Nope. I don't surf and I don't hate Hoskins Sotutu (or Akira Ioane).
I just want to see the All Blacks leave no stone unturned in reclaiming the Number 1 spot and winning back the Webb Ellis trophy.
Quite the contrary
