@taniwharugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
If they play Sititi at 6, that means Savea at 8, and who at 7? Jacobson, Blackadder, Kirifi? All make for a small back row.
I personally think playing Savea at 7 gives them more/better options then the next step is which are the best 6/8 and surely Sititi is there. Then the question is, is he best at 8 then choose a 6, or can he fill that 6 role and there is a better 8 alternative than 6 alternative?
@nostrildamus if they play Ardie at 7, Sotutu could play 8, but if they want Sititi at 8, it means they are likely to play Blackadder at 6, back to the small back row....as much as I don't wish ill on a player, but if Blackadder isn't available, that brings probably both Finau and Parker as options, and getting chances too.
@taniwharugby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@nostrildamus if they play Ardie at 7, Sotutu could play 8, but if they want Sititi at 8, it means they are likely to play Blackadder at 6, back to the small back row....as much as I don't wish ill on a player, but if Blackadder isn't available, that brings probably both Finau and Parker as options, and getting chances too.
Yes I'll leave it to all those unbiased Crusader fans to tell me EB is having a stormer run of form but I kind of think - been there, tried that, waited in the hospital waiting room long enough....
@zedsdeadbaby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
I’m yet to clear my mind of the thinking that Finau is a bit of a flat track bully. But he has the ingredients for sure.
And he’s a penalty magnet. That stood out big time tonight in the second 40.
Finau doesn’t have a place in this discussion after today’s game.
He’s got the size and tools but isn’t ready.
At his age, he shouldn’t be coming to it, so maybe next year.
@gt12 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Finau doesn’t have a place in this discussion after today’s game.
He’s got the size and tools but isn’t ready.
At his age, he shouldn’t be coming to it, so maybe next year.
The issue, I feel, was Parker coming off. It forced Finau into the middle and he's just not a great decision maker in that space at the moment. He struggles playing in close connection with his fellow forwards.
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@gt12 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Finau doesn’t have a place in this discussion after today’s game.
He’s got the size and tools but isn’t ready.
At his age, he shouldn’t be coming to it, so maybe next year.
The issue, I feel, was Parker coming off. It forced Finau into the middle and he's just not a great decision maker in that space at the moment. He struggles playing in close connection with his fellow forwards.
Yeah, very little mention of Wrampling having to play loose forward - which is kind of a big deal.
@zedsdeadbaby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
NZ Rugby currently having trouble finding big bodies - we don’t produce big bodies as a nation naturally and a lot are going to basketball.
It's something that's really noticeable at age grade level as well, for example when playing Australia. They seemingly have this endless pipeline of tall, athletic players in both the backs and forwards, despite the presence of basketball and AFL.
It makes it extra tough when players like Akira Ieremia - a big body with good coordination - leave early to places like Japan.
Clear from this weekend's games that NZ has far too many strong loose forwards for Razor and co to not build a world-class trio. Who knows whether it includes Blackadder or not, but there are no excuses.
6 - Flanders, Howden, Parker
7 - Savea, Blackadder, Jacobson
8 - Sititi, Sotutu
France are bringing over a B-team, the selectors need to try some new things while they still have the opportunity.
So I was rewatching the Chiefs-Blues game and Beehre had an impressive cameo. Not just the massive try at the death but his carrying and cleaning was really good as well. He has nimble feet and seems, to me, to be really mobile around the field.
Looking at his season’s stats before the Chiefs game – 9.7 carries/80, 18 attacking rucks/80 at 82.5%, 16 tackles/80 at 95%, 5.7 defensive rucks hit/80 (Opta); 178 post-contact metres, 11 defenders beaten, 3 line-breaks, 2 tries across the season (RugbyPass) – he seems to get through a decent amount of work in an effective manner.
He also seems to have a bit of a niggly edge about him and thrives in the close quarters. So a bit of an enforcer with a solid lineout game, dynamic mobility and a high volume of defensive involvements.
Perhaps this is a bit of a strange one but: Beehre as a bolter for the blindside position?
I think it could work at Test level (I’d keep him at lock for Super Rugby). If the selectors do go in the direction of a bigger body at blindside, I think he could be an intriguing option.
Don't think they'll go anywhere near Beehre as a Blindside option but I was tipping him as a second row bolter earlier in the year. He's probably not going to make the first selection unless there are injuries to a couple of the other more senior guys, but he's there or thereabouts.
@reprobate said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@gt12 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Finau doesn’t have a place in this discussion after today’s game.
He’s got the size and tools but isn’t ready.
At his age, he shouldn’t be coming to it, so maybe next year.
The issue, I feel, was Parker coming off. It forced Finau into the middle and he's just not a great decision maker in that space at the moment. He struggles playing in close connection with his fellow forwards.
Yeah, very little mention of Wrampling having to play loose forward - which is kind of a big deal.
Wrampling was the Chiefs best player.
Beehre is a real workhorse and I'm a fan of his.
I do have sympathy for your idea about having a bigger player at six - a Kaino sized player at least.
The thing about the bigger options you mentioned is that none of them are as big as PsTD. And none of him are close to having the same engine. Probably only Finau is as dynamic too.
When Scott Barrett first started playing Super Rugby he would have been 5kg lighter and he had a lot more pace. IMO he could have been a world class blindside if he was developed there. He's been very good at a lock at times but its tough to say he has been world class.
The thing is Razor played him at lock and apart from maybe 1 or 2 games never seemed to entertain the idea of playing him at blindside. Instead Razor has gone for much smaller, lighter guys who are jack of all trades type guys - at 6. I think the biggest guy he's played at 6 for the Crusaders was probably Cullen Grace? So I'd be surprised if Razor ends up going with a bigger style blindside.
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
The thing is Razor played him at lock and apart from maybe 1 or 2 games never seemed to entertain the idea of playing him at blindside. Instead Razor has gone for much smaller, lighter guys who are jack of all trades type guys - at 6. I think the biggest guy he's played at 6 for the Crusaders was probably Cullen Grace? So I'd be surprised if Razor ends up going with a bigger style blindside.
Of course, all of this is just hypothetical. And you make a good point about Razor's previous selection tendencies.
For what it's worth - I don't think coaching selection is ever set in stone, but let's set that aside for now - Razor did select bigger blindsides once, as head coach of the NZ U20s in 2015 and '16. He picked guys like Mitchell Dunshea (SR lock), James Blackwell (SR lock), and Fin Hoeata (NPC lock) at blindside for certain games during those tournaments, so I guess there's some precedent. Not a lot, though.
But we'll see what they'll do soon enough. Let's just say, I won't be particularly shocked if he picks Blackadder as his blindside against France.
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Cullen Grace
Absolute dog shit player. Best thing about Crusaders shit 2024 was that morons like TJ finally stopped talking him up as an AB.
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
won't be particularly shocked if he picks Blackadder as his blindside against France.
Will reinforce my view that AB coaches should be able to read , at the very least.
That would be a pathetic parochial selection.
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
In terms of Parker I saw him as a potential AB last year however I do think that if Blackadder is fit he is likely to be in the squad as the starting 6 with Savea at 7 and Sititi at 8. Jason Ryan loves him some Blackadder and I can't see him looking past him. Personally I'd like to see someone like Parker in the squad over Blackadder but I'll be shocked if it happens.
Haig hasn't had a lot of game time this year. I do think there is a place for Finau and Parker in the squad.
I don't see Razor and co going for a tight 6 under their game plan. They picked Blackadder, Finau, and Sititi as starters last year. They're looking for mobile guys.
In terms of workrate Finau, Parker and Haig are very much alike compared to Blackadder. Finau is highly effective at attacking rucks and Parker in defensive rucks. With regards to Blackadder the coaches seem to be more interested in volume as opposed to actual impact. He's always been a high volume low impact guy.
Contact Involvements per 80 Minutes Loose Forwards ( Carries + Tackles + Rucks )
69.25 Ethan Blackadder
61.62 Corey Kellow
61.0 Tom Christie
58.87 Dalton Papali'i
58.51 Du'Plessis Kirifi
58.41 Sean Withy
56.02 Jahrome Brown
54.84 Peter Lakai
53.63 Ardie Savea
52.35 Vaiolini Ekuasi
52.17 Luke Jacobson
50.6 Cullen Grace
48.87 Christian Lio-Willie
48.33 Brayden Iose
47.89 Kaylum Boshier
47.36 Hugh Renton
45.14 Hoskins Sotutu
44.21 Simon Parker
42.27 Oliver Haig
39.32 Samipeni FinauTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Rucks Per 80 minutes
35.24 Dalton Papali'i
35.19 Ethan Blackadder
33.57 Sean Withy
31.78 Corey Kellow
31.4 Du'Plessis Kirifi
29.68 Tom Christie
29.13 Jahrome Brown
27.87 Ardie Savea
26.91 Luke Jacobson
25.77 Peter Lakai
25.44 Kaylum Boshier
23.85 Cullen Grace
23.35 Simon Parker
22.39 Vaiolini Ekuasi
21.74 Oliver Haig
20.72 Christian Lio-Willie
20.28 Samipeni Finau
20.0 Brayden Iose
19.95 Hoskins Sotutu
16.75 Hugh RentonTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Attacking Ruck Effectiveness
91.8% Samipeni Finau
91.3% Tom Christie
90.2% Dalton Papali'i
90.2% Vaiolini Ekuasi
88.1% Ardie Savea
87.8% Peter Lakai
87.6% Jahrome Brown
86.9% Christian Lio-Willie
85.9% Hoskins Sotutu
85.9% Du'Plessis Kirifi
85.2% Brayden Iose
85.1% Luke Jacobson
85.0% Sean Withy
84.5% Corey Kellow
84.5% Oliver Haig
83.1% Simon Parker
82.6% Hugh Renton
81.9% Cullen Grace
81.5% Ethan Blackadder
77.3% Kaylum BoshierTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Defensive Ruck Effectiveness
29.6% Simon Parker
23.9% Luke Jacobson
23.1% Kaylum Boshier
22.4% Du'Plessis Kirifi
21.9% Samipeni Finau
20.1% Ardie Savea
17.6% Cullen Grace
17.3% Dalton Papali'i
16.1% Tom Christie
15.2% Jahrome Brown
14.8% Christian Lio-Willie
14.7% Sean Withy
13.1% Peter Lakai
12.1% Hoskins Sotutu
12.0% Corey Kellow
11.8% Vaiolini Ekuasi
9.1% Brayden Iose
8.3% Hugh Renton
7.4% Ethan Blackadder
0.0% Oliver HaigTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Dominant Tackle %
16.5% Simon Parker
11.5% Samipeni Finau
8.0% Hugh Renton
7.9% Ardie Savea
7.1% Brayden Iose
6.2% Christian Lio-Willie
6.0% Ethan Blackadder
5.8% Hoskins Sotutu
5.5% Peter Lakai
5.3% Sean Withy
4.4% Kaylum Boshier
4.4% Corey Kellow
4.3% Du'Plessis Kirifi
4.2% Luke Jacobson
3.5% Jahrome Brown
3.4% Cullen Grace
3.3% Tom Christie
3.3% Dalton Papali'i
2.0% Oliver Haig
0.0% Vaiolini EkuasiStats from Opta theanalyst.
I agree no way are they not picking Ethan Blackadder as their starting 6 right through to the 2027 RWC in combo with 8. Sititi and 7, Savea. For this reason I would like to see Naitoa Ah Kuoi selected in the squad to be developed as the bench blindsie/lock cover.
I like his combination with Tupou Vaai who is now one of the first names on the sheet. Developing him as a bench option will put him him prime position to be a straight swap for Blackadder at 6 when Ethan is on one of his inevitably injury breaks without bringing in someone cold who will be cast aside as soon as Blackadder makes a recovery.
For me Fabian Holland is being over hyped. If he is such a good tight forward why are the Highlanders always getting spanked in this area game after game. i would rank a uninjured Sam Darry ahead of him. IMO Ah Kuoi should be selected as the 4th lock to be developed as the bench lock/blindside cover. If Holland is selected it should be at the expense of Patrick Tuipulotu
Locks: S Barret, T Vaai, P Tuipulotu, N Ah Kuoi
Loosies A Savea, K Du Plessis, E Blackadder, S Parker, W Sititi, H Sotutu
@tubbyj said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@brodean said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
In terms of Parker I saw him as a potential AB last year however I do think that if Blackadder is fit he is likely to be in the squad as the starting 6 with Savea at 7 and Sititi at 8. Jason Ryan loves him some Blackadder and I can't see him looking past him. Personally I'd like to see someone like Parker in the squad over Blackadder but I'll be shocked if it happens.
Haig hasn't had a lot of game time this year. I do think there is a place for Finau and Parker in the squad.
I don't see Razor and co going for a tight 6 under their game plan. They picked Blackadder, Finau, and Sititi as starters last year. They're looking for mobile guys.
In terms of workrate Finau, Parker and Haig are very much alike compared to Blackadder. Finau is highly effective at attacking rucks and Parker in defensive rucks. With regards to Blackadder the coaches seem to be more interested in volume as opposed to actual impact. He's always been a high volume low impact guy.
Contact Involvements per 80 Minutes Loose Forwards ( Carries + Tackles + Rucks )
69.25 Ethan Blackadder
61.62 Corey Kellow
61.0 Tom Christie
58.87 Dalton Papali'i
58.51 Du'Plessis Kirifi
58.41 Sean Withy
56.02 Jahrome Brown
54.84 Peter Lakai
53.63 Ardie Savea
52.35 Vaiolini Ekuasi
52.17 Luke Jacobson
50.6 Cullen Grace
48.87 Christian Lio-Willie
48.33 Brayden Iose
47.89 Kaylum Boshier
47.36 Hugh Renton
45.14 Hoskins Sotutu
44.21 Simon Parker
42.27 Oliver Haig
39.32 Samipeni FinauTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Rucks Per 80 minutes
35.24 Dalton Papali'i
35.19 Ethan Blackadder
33.57 Sean Withy
31.78 Corey Kellow
31.4 Du'Plessis Kirifi
29.68 Tom Christie
29.13 Jahrome Brown
27.87 Ardie Savea
26.91 Luke Jacobson
25.77 Peter Lakai
25.44 Kaylum Boshier
23.85 Cullen Grace
23.35 Simon Parker
22.39 Vaiolini Ekuasi
21.74 Oliver Haig
20.72 Christian Lio-Willie
20.28 Samipeni Finau
20.0 Brayden Iose
19.95 Hoskins Sotutu
16.75 Hugh RentonTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Attacking Ruck Effectiveness
91.8% Samipeni Finau
91.3% Tom Christie
90.2% Dalton Papali'i
90.2% Vaiolini Ekuasi
88.1% Ardie Savea
87.8% Peter Lakai
87.6% Jahrome Brown
86.9% Christian Lio-Willie
85.9% Hoskins Sotutu
85.9% Du'Plessis Kirifi
85.2% Brayden Iose
85.1% Luke Jacobson
85.0% Sean Withy
84.5% Corey Kellow
84.5% Oliver Haig
83.1% Simon Parker
82.6% Hugh Renton
81.9% Cullen Grace
81.5% Ethan Blackadder
77.3% Kaylum BoshierTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Defensive Ruck Effectiveness
29.6% Simon Parker
23.9% Luke Jacobson
23.1% Kaylum Boshier
22.4% Du'Plessis Kirifi
21.9% Samipeni Finau
20.1% Ardie Savea
17.6% Cullen Grace
17.3% Dalton Papali'i
16.1% Tom Christie
15.2% Jahrome Brown
14.8% Christian Lio-Willie
14.7% Sean Withy
13.1% Peter Lakai
12.1% Hoskins Sotutu
12.0% Corey Kellow
11.8% Vaiolini Ekuasi
9.1% Brayden Iose
8.3% Hugh Renton
7.4% Ethan Blackadder
0.0% Oliver HaigTop 20 Loose Forward Players by Dominant Tackle %
16.5% Simon Parker
11.5% Samipeni Finau
8.0% Hugh Renton
7.9% Ardie Savea
7.1% Brayden Iose
6.2% Christian Lio-Willie
6.0% Ethan Blackadder
5.8% Hoskins Sotutu
5.5% Peter Lakai
5.3% Sean Withy
4.4% Kaylum Boshier
4.4% Corey Kellow
4.3% Du'Plessis Kirifi
4.2% Luke Jacobson
3.5% Jahrome Brown
3.4% Cullen Grace
3.3% Tom Christie
3.3% Dalton Papali'i
2.0% Oliver Haig
0.0% Vaiolini EkuasiStats from Opta theanalyst.
I agree no way are they not picking Ethan Blackadder as their starting 6 right through to the 2027 RWC in combo with 8. Sititi and 7, Savea. For this reason I would like to see Naitoa Ah Kuoi selected in the squad to be developed as the bench blindsie/lock cover.
I like his combination with Tupou Vaai who is now one of the first names on the sheet. Developing him as a bench option will put him him prime position to be a straight swap for Blackadder at 6 when Ethan is on one of his inevitably injury breaks without bringing in someone cold who will be cast aside as soon as Blackadder makes a recovery.
For me Fabian Holland is being over hyped. If he is such a good tight forward why are the Highlanders always getting spanked in this area game after game. i would rank a uninjured Sam Darry ahead of him. IMO Ah Kuoi should be selected as the 4th lock to be developed as the bench lock/blindside cover. If Holland is selected it should be at the expense of Patrick Tuipulotu
Locks: S Barret, T Vaai, P Tuipulotu, N Ah Kuoi
Loosies A Savea, K Du Plessis, E Blackadder, S Parker, W Sititi, H Sotutu
I like Ah Kuoi. However the Chiefs lineout when Taukei'aho, Vaa'i, Parker and Finau were on last night was pretty shocking at times so there's that.
Also the Canes were bullied badly at the breakdown last night and Kirifi + Lakai couldn't counter it.
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost
Which matches are you referring to?
I love Ah Kuoi but we need tall locks and line out specialists, not another hybrid lock.
If he’s going to make it, it should be as a six who can lock not the other way around.
@tubbyj said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
I agree no way are they not picking Ethan Blackadder as their starting 6 right through to the 2027 RWC in combo with 8. Sititi and 7, Savea. For this reason I would like to see Naitoa Ah Kuoi selected in the squad to be developed as the bench blindsie/lock cover.
Total and utter conjecture.
Where do you get all the certainty from?
@Nepia said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost
Which matches are you referring to?
His earlier tests in 2018 I remember he used to soak up the tackles and not in a good way. A 6 making 20 odd tackles round the bootlaces, not really what I would call effective work.
@Nepia said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost
Which matches are you referring to?
Have to be Argentina in 2020.
We only ever lost three games when Shannon started and one of those was his last match.
To be fair, Shannon was already three years into his AB career when he sustained his first loss.
@Nepia said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost
Which matches are you referring to?
It would have to be very early and seems correct.
I think I wrote something about his play in an article here quite some time ago and I was quite positive. One point that may sway the stats is that during those early games we really played without the ball a lot in the games in which he played.
in 2018, for the games I can find stats for:
Sept 8, Argentina he had 18 tackles, 2 missed (2nd in the team, Ardie had 21 and the Pumas had 56% possession)
Sept 30, Argentina he had 12 tackles, 0 missed (equal 2nd in the team, and the Pumas had 53% possession)
Oct 6, Sth Africa he had 19 tackles, 1 missed (1st in the team, and the Saffas had 59% possession)
To compare against another game that season, Squire's 7 tackles with no misses against Sth Africa when we lost that season looks really bad, but we had 75% of the possession.
It certainly was not the player he became later.
Rugby pass has stats by competition going back three years (I couldn't be bothered trawling ESPN):
RWC 2023
5 matches
40 tackles (Ave. 
Tackle per minute .14
Rugby championship 2023
3 matches
32 tackles (Ave. 11)
Tackles per minute .16
Rugby championship 2022
4 matches
20 tackles (Ave. 5)
Tackles per minute .09
@Chris-B said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@Nepia said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I remember Shannon Frizell in early parts of his career making 20 tackles when the AB's lost
Which matches are you referring to?
Have to be Argentina in 2020.
We only ever lost three games when Shannon started and one of those was his last match.
To be fair, Shannon was already three years into his AB career when he sustained his first loss.
He made 4 tackles and missed 1, not the 20+ the poster was claiming. In those 3 starting matches you mention he made a total of 10 tackles and 3 misses and 2 yellow cards. I think it;'s fair to blame all 3 losses on your missus. 
And the early matches that @gt12 discussed (where he got near 20 twice) we won all those matches, where they poster was claiming they were losses (IIRC he was using that to attack Sititi).
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
So I was rewatching the Chiefs-Blues game and Beehre had an impressive cameo. Not just the massive try at the death but his carrying and cleaning was really good as well. He has nimble feet and seems, to me, to be really mobile around the field.
Beehre showing nice footwork at the line before going more direct for his score at the endLooking at his season’s stats before the Chiefs game – 9.7 carries/80, 18 attacking rucks/80 at 82.5%, 16 tackles/80 at 95%, 5.7 defensive rucks hit/80 (Opta); 178 post-contact metres, 11 defenders beaten, 3 line-breaks, 2 tries across the season (RugbyPass) – he seems to get through a decent amount of work in an effective manner.
He also seems to have a bit of a niggly edge about him and thrives in the close quarters. So a bit of an enforcer with a solid lineout game, dynamic mobility and a high volume of defensive involvements.
Perhaps this is a bit of a strange one but: Beehre as a bolter for the blindside position?
I think it could work at Test level (I’d keep him at lock for Super Rugby). If the selectors do go in the direction of a bigger body at blindside, I think he could be an intriguing option.
He’s got a rangy style that reminded me a little of Jono Gibbes and Angus MacDonald. So a bit of a lock/blindside hybrid. Certainly has looked the part this season.
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@zedsdeadbaby said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
NZ Rugby currently having trouble finding big bodies - we don’t produce big bodies as a nation naturally and a lot are going to basketball.
It's something that's really noticeable at age grade level as well, for example when playing Australia. They seemingly have this endless pipeline of tall, athletic players in both the backs and forwards, despite the presence of basketball and AFL.
It makes it extra tough when players like Akira Ieremia - a big body with good coordination - leave early to places like Japan.
Funnily enough here in Melbourne, in afl , there are complaints they lose lots of tall athletes to basketball as kids, who never go back . The theory is as kids they feel quite Unco and struggle to get involved and feel valuable in football , the smaller fast kids are usually the stars at that level , in basketball it comes more natural to them and they instantly feel more valuable , it just feels like a better fit to their body type .
I would imagine a similar thing happens in rugby .
@Frank said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@tubbyj said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
I agree no way are they not picking Ethan Blackadder as their starting 6 right through to the 2027 RWC in combo with 8. Sititi and 7, Savea. For this reason I would like to see Naitoa Ah Kuoi selected in the squad to be developed as the bench blindsie/lock cover.
Total and utter conjecture.
Where do you get all the certainty from?
Two factors:
@Mr-Fish said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@gt12 said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
I cant be bothered checking the team sheets for this, as @Bovidae probably remembers off the top of his head. Has Parker started at 7 this year? I wonder if some of his greater involvement per minute just reflects him spending more time playing in the middle at 7 (arguably a great thing that he has this versatility).
Not this year.
He had a few games at 7 last season but he's been exclusively used at 6 and 8 in 2023.
The game against the Reds in Brisbane being one. Exactly the wrong conditions for Parker having to play at 7, as a big but not as mobile loose forward.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
So I was rewatching the Chiefs-Blues game and Beehre had an impressive cameo. Not just the massive try at the death but his carrying and cleaning was really good as well. He has nimble feet and seems, to me, to be really mobile around the field.
Beehre showing nice footwork at the line before going more direct for his score at the endLooking at his season’s stats before the Chiefs game – 9.7 carries/80, 18 attacking rucks/80 at 82.5%, 16 tackles/80 at 95%, 5.7 defensive rucks hit/80 (Opta); 178 post-contact metres, 11 defenders beaten, 3 line-breaks, 2 tries across the season (RugbyPass) – he seems to get through a decent amount of work in an effective manner.
He also seems to have a bit of a niggly edge about him and thrives in the close quarters. So a bit of an enforcer with a solid lineout game, dynamic mobility and a high volume of defensive involvements.
Perhaps this is a bit of a strange one but: Beehre as a bolter for the blindside position?
I think it could work at Test level (I’d keep him at lock for Super Rugby). If the selectors do go in the direction of a bigger body at blindside, I think he could be an intriguing option.
He’s got a rangy style that reminded me a little of Jono Gibbes and Angus MacDonald. So a bit of a lock/blindside hybrid. Certainly has looked the part this season.
Shades of Troy Flavell too ? A guy like him with discipline would be invaluable.
Quite a different player to Flavell. I think Beehre is a genuine blindside option whereas I thought Flavell looked out of place there and it wasn’t until he came back into the side pre-RWC 2007 that I thought he looked most comfortable and played his best footy and that was at lock.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Quite a different player to Flavell. I think Beehre is a genuine blindside option whereas I thought Flavell looked out of place there and it wasn’t until he came back into the side pre-RWC 2007 that I thought he looked most comfortable and played his best footy and that was at lock.
Flavell had a hell of a turn of pace but yes, he did appear slightly less nimble than some of his contemporaries at six.
But yeah, he's still one of the biggest "if only" players I can think of. I shudder to think how much time he'd spend on the sidelines in todays game.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mauss get Howden to call the lineouts...
I’ll respond to this here since Howden is yet another in a long list of blindside flankers with Test potential. The thing I’d like to see from Howden, at both NPC and Super level, is greater consistency.
I really liked what I saw from Howden in the Hurricanes’ game against the Reds during Super Round last year, and since then, I’ve kept a closer eye on him, both for the Turbos and for the Highlanders. What stood out to me throughout these games, however, was the sheer degree of variation of his involvements on a game-to-game basis. This table below, for example, lists Howden’s carry, metre, tackle, lineout and beaten defender count, in every game that he’s started this SR season in the Highlanders’ 6-jersey.
Again, what is noticeable is the sheer range of numbers between individual games: between 3 and 14 carries, between 7 to 54 metres made, between 4 and 23 tackles in a game, and between 0 to 3 defenders beaten. The only thing which has been consistent is his lineout contribution, only ranging between 2 to 4 takes.
Howden's carries, tackles, lineouts won and defenders beaten per game
This graph further highlights how Howden started his games at blindside flank as a volume defender, making 19 and 23 tackles against the Hurricanes and Brumbies in rounds 5 and 7 respectively. His carry numbers were quite low, however, which he tried to adjust and was able to bring up to 14 against the Crusaders in round 11. This game probably presents his 'target' statistical contribution, with 14 carries, 28 metres made, 17 tackles and a defender beaten.
But this increased carry game impacted his defensive contribution as the season wore on, with his tackle numbers getting quite low, despite the Highlanders putting on massive defensive showings against both the Hurricanes and Crusaders in rounds 14 and 15. Howden only put in 6 and 4 tackles in these games (missing 4 tackles against the Hurricanes as well), which isn’t really where you want your flanker to be.
So I think Howden is a player of real promise: he has size, is solid in the lineout, he’s defensively robust (usually), and is athletically gifted. But what he needs to try is provide consistency, preferably in the manner that he did against the Crusaders in round 11 (although that is a high bar to consistently reach). Once again, the key is to be able to find the right balance between contributions in the tight and the loose, between attack and defence.
If he is eventually able do this, he will be difficult to ignore for the selectors.
Good post. That sort of sums up most of the potentially promising options - he has the size and tools but not the consistency.
That seems true for the other guys in the conversation with size - basically Finau and Parker seem to be in the same boat.
Then there are guys with consistency but they have physical limitations and we’ll continue with our imbalance.
I’d be happy with the selectors choosing two guys who have the tools and then just giving them 20 tests to see what they can get to.
10 months later
Another year, another post that’s way too long about the state of the blindside in the black jersey. Simon Parker got his shot last Test season but failed to convince, especially on attack, where he found it difficult to get himself involved. As he’s struggling to replicate last season’s form, he will want to secure a place in the squad first and foremost, before worrying about his place as a Test starter.
Parker’s 2025 and ’26 SRP seasons compared: less dominant and less accurate on defence, less involved in the lineout, less proficient in winning turnovers. He will need a strong second half of the competition to make his case (Graph from RugbyPass)
So how are the blindsides performing for the different Kiwi SRP teams? How are they used and will that transfer to Test rugby? And what will Dave Rennie be looking for?
Another categorisation
But before I can (try to) answer some of these questions, I’ll quickly go back to my post from last year (see the first post in this thread). There I tried to make sense of the options by distinguishing between tight and loose blindsides, with the AB selectors ultimately looking for a player equally comfortable in both roles.
Here, I’ll move away from this categorisation. Rather than separating blindsides on the basis of their area of play, I’ll instead try to make a distinction on the basis of their output on the field. Looking at this year’s blindsides – Barnes, Segner (Blues), Parker, Finau (Chiefs), Flanders (Hurricanes), Gardiner, Blackadder (Crusaders), Howden (Hurricanes) – we can discern two groups: those who stand out through the sheer volume of their work and those who make a case for selection through the dominance of their actions.
We can get a clearer picture of this distinction by visualizing the on-field output of the current blindsides. Below, there’s two graphs, one outlining the work rate of the different flankers (volume), and one looking to show the impact of their involvements (dominance).
In order to get a sense of work rate, I collected the total attacking (TAI) and total defensive involvements (TDI) of the different blindsides. The attacking involvements are made up of carries, passes and attacking cleans (on a per 80 min basis). The defensive involvements consist of tackles and defensive ruck attendances. Because Opta no longer includes Super Rugby Pacific in their stats hub for this season, I had to gather my own data for the breakdown. Since I can’t possibly do this for each game the blindsides have played so far (how many times a player cleaned a ruck on attack or disrupted the breakdown on defence), I limited myself to just one game per player for (attacking and defensive) ruck attendances. I’ve checked this data by keeping an eye on blindside ruck involvements throughout the comp, so as to make sure the data are a fair reflection (which they are).
A first delineation already becomes clear: Blackadder, Howden and Barnes stand out in terms of their involvements on attack and defence throughout the 80 minutes
Just watching Blackadder for a whole game, you do start to appreciate more the sheer volume of work he gets through. While he doesn’t carry as much as other blindsides, he’s incredibly involved in the breakdown on both sides of the ball while also putting in more tackle attempts than anyone else. His defensive ruck involvements also show that even when he’s playing at six, he still offers the work of an extra openside, disrupting the opposition breakdown throughout the game.
Total attacking and total defensive involvements (all stats used are from RugbyPass SRP, rounds 1-8)
While Howden has relatively similar numbers to Blackadder (without the openside aspects), Barnes is a relative unicorn across the NZ blindside landscape in that he combines breakdown and defensive work rate with volume carrying as well. His current use off the bench for the Blues seems to be related to this relentless energy expenditure: despite coming on the field at halftime against the Waratahs, Barnes managed to squeeze in nearly 80 minutes of effort (12 carries, 8 tackles, 4 lineouts won, 2 dominant tackles). If he’s going to be an 80 minute player, he might need to learn how to manage his workload.
So what of this other group (Flanders, Gardiner, Parker, Finau, Segner)? Why don’t they carry more, or clean more rucks? The work rate numbers make more sense when we compare the graph above with the one below, wherein the degree of dominance is measured. This aspect of dominance is reflected both in attack and defence: how many carries produce a tackle bust (% of carrying dominance) and how many tackles are dominant (% of tackle dominance)? When put like this, the two groups switch places on both axes.
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for blindsides, you’re picking either work rate or dominance, not both
The leading group for work rate now neatly falls to the back of the queue, with Howden, Barnes and Blackadder being last for carrying dominance. A new name now jumps out: Devan Flanders is able to tackle with dominance as well as consistently beat defenders with his carries. So while he doesn’t necessarily fill up the stat sheet for 80 minutes, when the Hurricanes blindside does intervene, it is often decisive.
The same goes for a player like Samipeni Finau: he hasn’t tackled as much this season as in previous ones (0.1 tackle per minute in 2026 versus 0.13 in 2025) but when he does, it is often to great effect, like his crunching hit on Siosifa Amone in round 8.
Whether Dave Rennie will pick a workhorse at 6 or someone who can be a dominant presence on the field will largely depend on both how he wants to play as well as the makeup of his loose forward trio.
Another question mark
Currently, Rennie’s team at Kobe has Savea at openside. Savea has made it difficult for a number of AB coaches to balance the loose forward trio, with Hansen and Foster turning him into a number 8 in order to get the balance right. Rennie seems to disagree with this approach, a disagreement which is most likely related to the former Chiefs’ coach’s vision of the breakdown. Savea can come up short in the defensive physicality stakes but what he does do very well is spot turnover opportunities. This fits well into Rennie’s game plan which isn’t built around winning the defensive contact but around making an absolute mess of the opposition breakdown. Savea has already won 14 turnovers for the Steelers. His blindside partner-in-crime, Tiennan Costley, has won 10 of his own.
So what is a Rennie blindside? Below you can find the RugbyPass chart for Costley’s statistical profile. What stands out? Lineout proficiency, tackle dominance and breakdown prowess.
Rennie’s blindside at Kobe Steelers: Aussie-born, Kiwi-raised Tiennan Costley
So the set piece is a big part of Rennie’s thinking for the 6. Looking at the Kiwi contenders from this SRP season, a few players stand out in the lineout.
Flanders, Finau, Segner and Howden average 2.5 lineouts won or more per game, with Flanders the most adept at stealing opposition ball
Costley averages around 2.5 lineouts won for the Steelers. Several Kiwi blindsides reach this threshold as well, with Howden leading the pack with an average of around 4 lineouts won per game. Flanders is part of a Hurricanes lineout which goes aggressively at opposition ball, the Hawke’s Bay loose forward already responsible for 6 steals himself.
The Crusaders don’t use their blindsides in the lineout all that often, using Blackadder for hit-ups in the midfield. If Rennie isn’t convinced of their previous ability in that area, that might cost them. Another player that might see his selection stocks rise, is Anton Segner, who has slowly turned into one of the competition’s best lineout forwards. That, coupled with his ability to both disrupt opposition breakdown and win turnovers, might make him a surprise package for the Rennie ABs.
The future of the position? AN Other
So while there are plenty of options for Dave Rennie, it is safe to say that none of them scream Test blindside. The typical image of the blindside as the hitman (Collins) or the defensive rock (Kaino) seems like it won’t be able to be recreated by any of the current contenders.
Then again, a creative approach might be in order here and it seems like the Hurricanes are currently leading the way in that regard in more ways than one. The Canes play Flanders on the edge where he can use his pace and offloading ability to beat defenders and create line breaks. But that leaves their defensive middle without a bruising loose forward presence, with both Kirifi and Lakai on the smaller side for loose forwards.
Enter Asafo Aumua and the Hurricanes tight five. While most of the plaudits have gone to the backline, the Canes tight five have been incredibly aggressive in contact, on defence especially. While Aumua first burst onto the scene as an explosive runner out wide, he has since redeveloped himself as a gritty, and dare I say, blindside-esque tackler in the middle of the field, halting opposition forwards in their step and absolutely folding roaming backs.
The spirit of Jerry lives on, in the body of a squat hooker out of Lower Hutt
Picking a tight five that can take over some of the tasks typically associated with the loose forwards – breakdown contestation, dominant tackling – further frees up those loose forwards to add some more strings to their bow, such as ball-carrying out wide. Either way, none of the current loose forwards are hitting as hard as Aumua right now, so if dominant tackling is to be part of the 2026 ABs, players like the Hurricanes hooker need to be involved.
Whatever Dave Rennie chooses to do, it’s clear he’ll need to be a little creative to make the loose forward trio work. With a lack of clear bruisers at blindside and a chip-kicking Ardie to deal with, that’s no easy task. I’m pretty sure it killed the last guy. Either way, I’m rooting for him. Then again, I’m still half-expecting to write a similar thing once again next year.
@Mauss said in AB Blindside - past, present & future:
Just watching Blackadder for a whole game, you do start to appreciate more the sheer volume of work he gets through. While he doesn’t carry as much as other blindsides, he’s incredibly involved in the breakdown on both sides of the ball while also putting in more tackle attempts than anyone else. His defensive ruck involvements also show that even when he’s playing at six, he still offers the work of an extra openside, disrupting the opposition breakdown throughout the game.
Workrate is great but it needs to be impactful otherwise you are just racking up fantasy stats.
At test level Blackadder was not shown to be impactful.
@Mauss Excellent read. Makes it even more annoying that the Boks have a unicorn that ticks every box in that position. The Boks probably don't win either of the last two RWCs without him.
I don't think we'll ever find another Kaino tbh, the best approach like you said will be looking at other players in different positions to fill that kind of role in the middle. The only problem with Aumua is his lineout throwing can be detrimental to his team at times.
