2025 All Blacks v France series

@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I think this is probably worthy of its own thread, but feel free to merge if not - purely on the squad v France to see how close to 35/35 anyone can get - this is what I am predicting. I'd imagine the squad is now locked in barring injuries - one game shouldn't really change anything.

PROPS:
Tamaiti Williams (Crusaders)
Ethan de Groot (Highlanders)
George Bower (Crusaders)
Tyrel Lomax (Hurricanes)
Fletcher Newell (Crusaders)
Pasilio Tosi (Crusaders)

HOOKERS:
Codie Taylor (Crusaders)
Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs)
George Bell (Crusaders)

LOCKS:
Scott Barrett (c) (Crusaders)
Tupou Vaa'i (Chiefs)
Patrick Tuipulotu (Blues)
Fabian Holland (Highlanders)

LOOSE FORWARDS:
Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
Ardie Savea (Moana Pasifika)
Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
Dalton Papalii (Blues)
Wallace Sititi (Chiefs)
Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders)

HALFBACKS:
Cameron Roigard (Hurricanes)
Cortez Ratima (Chiefs)
Noah Hotham (Crusaders)

FIRST FIVES:
Damian McKenzie (Chiefs)
Beauden Barrett (Blues)

MIDFIELDERS:
Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes)
Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs)
Rieko Ioane (Blues)
Billy Proctor (Hurricanes)
David Havili (Crusaders)

OUTSIDE BACKS:
Caleb Clarke (Blues)
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (Highlanders)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

Unavailable due to injury: Asafo Aumua (Hurricanes), Simon Parker (Chiefs), Anton Lienert-Brown (Chiefs), Caleb Tangitau (Highlanders)

Jacobsen for Lio-Willie.

Ultra conservatism vs a newbie from the Crusaders. I have a feeling the former will win out. Other than that spot on.

If Jacobson makes it, it'll most likely be in place of Finau/DP I'd say.

JRK seems like a long shot, I wouldn't be surprised to see Fihaki or Narawa selected instead (if Narawa has a blinder tonight).

@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I think this is probably worthy of its own thread, but feel free to merge if not - purely on the squad v France to see how close to 35/35 anyone can get - this is what I am predicting. I'd imagine the squad is now locked in barring injuries - one game shouldn't really change anything.

PROPS:
Tamaiti Williams (Crusaders)
Ethan de Groot (Highlanders)
George Bower (Crusaders)
Tyrel Lomax (Hurricanes)
Fletcher Newell (Crusaders)
Pasilio Tosi (Crusaders)

HOOKERS:
Codie Taylor (Crusaders)
Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs)
George Bell (Crusaders)

LOCKS:
Scott Barrett (c) (Crusaders)
Tupou Vaa'i (Chiefs)
Patrick Tuipulotu (Blues)
Fabian Holland (Highlanders)

LOOSE FORWARDS:
Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
Ardie Savea (Moana Pasifika)
Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
Dalton Papalii (Blues)
Wallace Sititi (Chiefs)
Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders)

HALFBACKS:
Cameron Roigard (Hurricanes)
Cortez Ratima (Chiefs)
Noah Hotham (Crusaders)

FIRST FIVES:
Damian McKenzie (Chiefs)
Beauden Barrett (Blues)

MIDFIELDERS:
Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes)
Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs)
Rieko Ioane (Blues)
Billy Proctor (Hurricanes)
David Havili (Crusaders)

OUTSIDE BACKS:
Caleb Clarke (Blues)
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (Highlanders)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

Unavailable due to injury: Asafo Aumua (Hurricanes), Simon Parker (Chiefs), Anton Lienert-Brown (Chiefs), Caleb Tangitau (Highlanders)

Jacobsen for Lio-Willie.

Ultra conservatism vs a newbie from the Crusaders. I have a feeling the former will win out. Other than that spot on.

If Jacobson makes it, it'll most likely be in place of Finau/DP I'd say.

JRK seems like a long shot, I wouldn't be surprised to see Fihaki or Narawa selected instead (if Narawa has a blinder tonight).

No. Razor will want three shades of vanilla in the squad with Blackadder, Papalii and Jacobsen.

@MN5 at least it'll be French vanilla.

@Bones La vanille.

@KiwiMurph JRK is three years younger than those three - which I think is quite significant. I don't think it really matters which one we pick, though as a winger I think Lam would be a little uninspiring. He wouldn't let us down, but hardly has the X-Factor.

I think one thing in Papali'i's favour is he's one of the most capped forwards in the country and after Savea he is the most capped loose forward.

Razor seems to think experience is important.

From the available players there will only be 1 hooker, 1 prop, 3 locks and 1 loose forward with more caps.

Apart from those forwards with more caps than him most forwards have bugger all caps.

He was also the Blue's best player this year so its not like he's been in bad form.

@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

No. Razor will want three shades of vanilla in the squad with Blackadder, Papalii and Jacobsen.

Luke Brittain Jacobson methinks..
Vanilla?
Quite an exciting international smorgasbord of Scottish, Samoan, and Swedish names.

What says to me JRK is right in there is the timing of his re-signing announcement and the period it is for. It was at the same time as several other All Blacks were being announced and for three years. Most other Super players just get re-signed for 1 - 2 years.

I think Leroy Carter is worth a shot on the Wing, but I've no idea if he's in the selectors thinking. He's raw but he's got potential.

Clarke's out of from.
Tangitau is injured.
Telea is going offshore.
Reece is in decline.
Jordan is a fullback these days.
Not sure JRK is Test quality.
Not sold on Fihaki.
Narawa's not really busy enough for me. But he might be worth another go.

Thin pickings on the wing.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I think Leroy Carter is worth a shot on the Wing, but I've no idea if he's in the selectors thinking. He's raw but he's got potential.

Clarke's out of from.
Tangitau is injured.
Telea is going offshore.
Reece is in decline.
Jordan is a fullback these days.
Not sure JRK is Test quality.
Not sold on Fihaki.
Narawa's not really busy enough for me. But he might be worth another go.

Thin pickings on the wing.

They are probably really selective of who the debutants/new players are. There is a bit to read into contract re-signings/lengths. Carter has been great. Especially at the end of a quality backline. He is a speciality winger though. If they view Tangitau is a better option. There is enough coverage to not have to blood another debutant. JRK is a 14/15. He hasn't had the opportunity to play on the wing. I think Carter is similar to a Tavatavanawai top quality player. Just not an All Black.

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Just not an All Black.

That's how I feel about JRK

Watching Carter these first few minutes he could certainly play fullback (and cover half back) if he actually got some time there. Reckon he'll end up in the midfield.

@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Just not an All Black.

That's how I feel about JRK

I'm not sure on whether JRK is there either. I'm just reading on the basis of timing on announcements, and what isn't being stated. I think he has the potential to be a strong 14/15. He just needs an injury free season.

I wouldn't disagree with this. I'd love to see Fusitoa or Norris get a look in but I'm assuming Razor will opt for Crusaders where there's any ambiguity. In the loose forwards I strongly expect Jacobson over Papalii. I'd like to see Kirifi over Lio Willie but wouldn't be surprised if Razor picks him. I really want to see Big Jim in the mix too, and would expect Narwara over JRK.

I'm curious why we haven't seen more of Paps during Razor's reign, would have thought he'd like that style of player, big, strong defensively, good motor and commitment, tackle machine. Maybe Paps had some injuries at key moments last year.

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Just not an All Black.

That's how I feel about JRK

I'm not sure on whether JRK is there either. I'm just reading on the basis of timing on announcements, and what isn't being stated. I think he has the potential to be a strong 14/15. He just needs an injury free season.

I get the upside potential of JRK - I just worry about his decision making - he seems a bit flaky to me.

@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@SouthernMann said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Just not an All Black.

That's how I feel about JRK

I'm not sure on whether JRK is there either. I'm just reading on the basis of timing on announcements, and what isn't being stated. I think he has the potential to be a strong 14/15. He just needs an injury free season.

I get the upside potential of JRK - I just worry about his decision making - he seems a bit flaky to me.

He has also made some really impressive decisions. This season especially, he came back into a team that needed him to, not only perform, but potentially perform miracles. That looked like it weighed on him. Hopefully with a more capable 10, there may be less pressure on him. As well as having t Tabgitau alongside him. Plus having someone like Hurley coming on with 30 minutes ot go as a miracle worker. JRK can focus on being a good fullback.

I've no idea of the selectors thinking, but I'd put both Carter and Narawa in the squad ahead of Clarke, Reece and JR-K.

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

OUTSIDE BACKS:
Caleb Clarke (Blues)
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (Highlanders)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

4/5 right in my view.

Narawa in and JRK out. They don’t need another fullback first option so I don’t think it makes sense to pick JRK. Add to that, I don’t think he’s at AB level yet. I know Narawa has impressed the AB camp this year so can’t see him not getting back in.
Reece’s workrate has been very good this season and he has scored tries which means he’s working both on and off the ball to get in those positions.

I think they will persist with Clarke despite some indifferent super form. Will he be an automatic starter for the first French test, that’s very much open I think.

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

Okay I'll have a go. What I think it will be.

Props:
Tamati Williams (Crusaders)
Ethan De Groot (Highlanders)
George Bower (Crusaders)
Tyrell Lomax (Hurricanes)
Fletcher Newell (Crusaders)
Pasilio Tosi (Hurricanes)

Hookers
Codie Taylor (Crusaders)
Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs)
George Bell (Crusaders)

Locks
Scott Barrett (Crusaders)
Tupou Vai'i (Chiefs)
Patrick Tuipolutu (Blues)
Fabian Holland (Highlanders)

Loosies
Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
Luke Jacobson (Chiefs)
Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
Ardie Savea (MP)
Dalton Papalii (Blues)
Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
Wallace Sititi (Chiefs)

Half Backs
Cortez Ratima (Chiefs)
Cam Roigard (Hurricanes)
Noah Hotham (Crusaders)

First Fives
D Mac (Chiefs)
Beauden Barrett (Blues)

Midfield
Jordie Barrett (Leinster)
Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs)
Reiko Ioane (Blues)
Billy Proctor (Hurricanes)
David Havili (Crusaders)

Back Three
Leroy Carter (Chiefs)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Emoni Narawa (Chiefs)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

AJ Lam the unluckiest to miss out. If he plays a blinder in the final, Christian Lio-Willie will make it. They may be more forgiving of Caleb Clarke's try drought than I am. George Bell wouldn't be my third Hooker but Robertson and Ryan like him.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Back Three
Leroy Carter (Chiefs)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Emoni Narawa (Chiefs)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

Agree with the rest of the squad but this would concern me a bit. All in good form though so I get the selections. Stuff being a selector!

I like JRK. He's dynamite.

I don't see him in this squad.

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@frugby said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

OUTSIDE BACKS:
Caleb Clarke (Blues)
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens (Highlanders)
Sevu Reece (Crusaders)
Will Jordan (Crusaders)
Ruben Love (Hurricanes)

4/5 right in my view.

Narawa in and JRK out. They don’t need another fullback first option so I don’t think it makes sense to pick JRK.

A point I was going to make. Having just got back from the Chiefs-Brumbies game, I thought that Narawa was great. I'd select him ahead of Reece too.

I would like to see Lam picked. He's good enough and gives bench flexibility - if Love or Barrett (i.e. a back-up 10) play fullback then you could just have a halfback and Lam on the bench.

@Landers92

Back three is an interesting one in terms of selection strategy.

Laurie Mains and Steve Hansen went with the guys in form.

John Mitchell liked raw pace.

John Hart went with what he thought were the natural players and believed he could gel them.

Graham Henry and Ian Foster were willingly to stick guys who didn't play Back Three in Super Rugby there and wanted them to be strong defensively.

Apart from Will Jordan, I don't see an obvious selection for the Back Three in Test 1. We are going to learn a lot about Scott Robertson by who he goes for.

@sparky

I thought Hansen is picking the backs?

@brodean Yeah, but Robertson will get the final say. Grant Fox is now record as saying on his panels , the Head Coach got the final vote. Whatever gets said in public, I've little doubt it's the same with this coaching group.

Scott Hansen will advise but it's Scott Robertson who the buck stops with.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

@brodean Yeah, but Robertson will get the final say. Grant Fox is now record as saying on his panels , the Head Coach got the final vote. Whatever gets said in public, I've little doubt it's the same with this coaching group.

Scott Hansen will advise but it's Scott Robertson who the buck stops with.

I thought it was more along the lines of 'ok these are all the guys I want' ... 'yes that's fine but you have to pick that guy instead of this guy'

@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Jordan and Love pick themselves in my view and in spite of what @Bones posts about Jordan

With the right guys on the field, hopefully Jordan's glaring deficiencies can be covered.

@brodean I think it's more a case of the expert proving to the boss that a decision that the boss is going to be held to account for is the correct one.

Specialists will have their say and will be allowed to present their evidence over a series of months. But if they can't convince the boss then they will go with their gut instinct.

I’ll just say this. In regards to outside backs and getting the open spot with Telea leaving, it would be extremely disappointing to see guys like Narawa, Tangitau, Carter and even JRK miss out to someone like a Chay Fihaki… that would tell us all we need to know

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

No, but he's going offshore. I'd only go for him in an injury emergency. Robertson and co picked Sam Cane last year so they might select Mark Tele'a.

@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is Mark Tele’a unavailable for selection?

Going overseas, so he'll be taking reps from a potential starter

@sparky

I think they will pick Tele'a if they believe that will help them secure a series win against France etc I guess we will find out if that's what they're thinking in 9 days.

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

Is France sending their speedster winger? Hope so. And that might be a factor in the AB winger decision.

Louis Bielle-Biarrey.

It all depends on how far Bordeaux go in the Top 14 playoffs.

So yeah, it's a bit complicated.

France are going to name a 28-man squad on Monday to play England next Saturday from teams not in the Top 14 playoffs. They will then add 14 more players from sides eliminated in the Top 14 playoffs to tour NZ, but it's unlikely that any players involved in the Top 14 final will be selected in the 42 man squad to tour NZ but they could come in if there are injuries after the First Test.

@nostrildamus This is the Top 14 playoff bracket.

Semi Final qualifiers today. Semi Finals next week and the Final the week after so they are a week behind Super Rugby.

@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:

I think Leroy Carter is worth a shot on the Wing, but I've no idea if he's in the selectors thinking. He's raw but he's got potential.

Clarke's out of from.
Tangitau is injured.
Telea is going offshore.
Reece is in decline.
Jordan is a fullback these days.
Not sure JRK is Test quality.
Not sold on Fihaki.
Narawa's not really busy enough for me. But he might be worth another go.

Thin pickings on the wing.

I'm not interested in a coaching group that worries about players going offshore or in decline from previous highs - this isn't the abridged Rugby Championship before a RWC - form should be rewarded.

Based on the form of the semi-finals Narawa should be a lock and Fihaki is staking a claim. If Reece, despite not being at his best, and Telea - despite going OS - are amongst the best wingers, they should be included.

Turns out Fihaki has missed the most tackles this season of any back from the NZ teams squads who played in the semis