All Blacks v Springboks I

@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

That's a worry. Not happy about needing a guy who has played what 3/4 of a super season, and looked to be struggling with the pressure off the bench in the final.

You're talking about Preston?

Started the Super season with a hiss and a roar, but I thought he got worse as the season progressed. Seem to recall saying that I'd have picked Drummie ahead of him when the play-offs came.

I'd say there's zero chance he starts if Christie is fit and I'm pretty happy with that. Massive dice roll to pick our fifth choice halfback to debut vs the Boks.

TBH - I'm surprised Xavier Roe isn't there ahead of him.

Yeah, I don't think it is even fair on Preston to be honest. If he's on the bench, then we'll have an inexperienced at super level, franchise 2nd choice guy making his debut against the world champs in what is likely to be a tight game with a huge record on the line. Roe or Fakatava would be far better options for this week. Either that or they play Christie 80, in which case that isn't really fair on him either, and it tells Preston that they don't trust him.
That's the risk you run with bringing someone new into the squad to 'have a look at them' or whatever crap they trot out.
His super debut was bloody good, so maybe our brains trust are banking on that repeating...

Mind numbing we are not utilizing guys like Love, Narawa, QT and not using DMac more.
Captain and backs are the issue. This can be sorted but will it.

@BerniesCorner I'm not sure Love and Narawa really move the needle - but they should definitely be tried. If Clarke is back, I'd go with:

9. Christie
10. Love
11. Clarke
12. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Narawa
15. Jordan

Bench: Preston, McKenzie, Tavatavanawai

It's throwing Love in the deep end, but if he is good he will rise to the occassion. Sopoaga debuted at Ellis Park, so it has been done before.

I am 100% sure this won't be the backline, but man I'd like to see them take a punt on Love.

Razor will continue to select conservative

@frugby In the selectors eyes, I reckon you've got the fourth-ranked halfback, first five, centre and wing - along with the number-one second-five, wing and fullback.

Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Christie
Richie, Beaudy, DMac, Love (at best)
Proctor, Ioane, ALB, Tupaea
Clarke, Ioane, Reece, Narawa

Had to include The Mo for a neat quartet - sorry!

Not entirely convinced they would see Love even as the fourth-best first five in the country, but that's purely a guess based on how little he's played there - but, he's a like-for-like with DMac as bench cover. I reckon when he gets a start it will be at fullback - or just possibly wing.

@frugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BerniesCorner I'm not sure Love and Narawa really move the needle - but they should definitely be tried. If Clarke is back, I'd go with:

9. Christie
10. Love
11. Clarke
12. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Narawa
15. Jordan

Bench: Preston, McKenzie, Tavatavanawai

It's throwing Love in the deep end, but if he is good he will rise to the occassion. Sopoaga debuted at Ellis Park, so it has been done before.

I am 100% sure this won't be the backline, but man I'd like to see them take a punt on Love.

Well I'm done with backline conservatism because it's just fudge for ain't working.
The backs are letting the forwards down.

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@frugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BerniesCorner I'm not sure Love and Narawa really move the needle - but they should definitely be tried. If Clarke is back, I'd go with:

9. Christie
10. Love
11. Clarke
12. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Narawa
15. Jordan

Bench: Preston, McKenzie, Tavatavanawai

It's throwing Love in the deep end, but if he is good he will rise to the occassion. Sopoaga debuted at Ellis Park, so it has been done before.

I am 100% sure this won't be the backline, but man I'd like to see them take a punt on Love.

Well I'm done with backline conservatism because it's just fudge for ain't working.
The backs are letting the forwards down.

Scooter needs to channel some Grizz Wyllie...

"Don't give the backs the ball, they'll just stuff it up!"

Captaining Canterbury many years ago.

@Chris-B
Well if Roigard was fit I'd say no ball past 9 in the pre match pep talk.

@frugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BerniesCorner I'm not sure Love and Narawa really move the needle - but they should definitely be tried.

Love's pretty exciting actually, might make mistakes, might fail, but I like his competitive spirit.
As for Narawa, he can still catch and kick and run, can't he? That would have been useful in the last game.

Seems like they'll likely have to use Fin Christie at halfback, so I reckon beyond that there will be a maximum of two changes in the backs.

Vaguely possible that they'll switch Beaudy for DMac, but given they've hitched the wagon to BB for all the preceding tests, I don't see this happening. If Eden Park is a disaster, that change will get made.

Jordie is locked in.

Proctor has been a bit of an experiment - not entirely successful, but worth continuing with in the long run. But, maybe not for this game. I could see Rieko possibly moving to the 13 jersey.

I think they'll be watching Caleb Clarke's form anxiously in NPC this weekend. Now that he's got his motorcycle madness out the way, hopefully he can be focussed and recapture last year's form. If he goes well, I reckon he'll be in. If Rieko doesn't move to centre, there's a possibility he'd move to right wing for Sevu - but, probably not. Narawa also a possibility to replace Sevu.

Jordan locked in at fullback - would be quite a surprise for me if they shifted him to wing to accommodate DMac or Love.

@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@frugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BerniesCorner I'm not sure Love and Narawa really move the needle - but they should definitely be tried. If Clarke is back, I'd go with:

9. Christie
10. Love
11. Clarke
12. Barrett
13. Tupaea
14. Narawa
15. Jordan

Bench: Preston, McKenzie, Tavatavanawai

It's throwing Love in the deep end, but if he is good he will rise to the occassion. Sopoaga debuted at Ellis Park, so it has been done before.

I am 100% sure this won't be the backline, but man I'd like to see them take a punt on Love.

Well I'm done with backline conservatism because it's just fudge for ain't working.
The backs are letting the forwards down.

Scooter needs to channel some Grizz Wyllie...

"Don't give the backs the ball, they'll just stuff it up!"

Captaining Canterbury many years ago.

I assume the thug Fergie wasn't included in that directive?

Also, is that how one of the provinces who makes up your franchise of Ta$man managed to take the Shield of them? They used their backs because it was supposed to be an easy game?

@Nepia Different game, I think!

Actually, I think the Canterbury players knew that Marlborough would be very tough.

It gets addressed at Grizz's funeral - from 1.33.12

@Nepia Chairing the Syd Nomis Appreciation Society?

@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Nepia Chairing the Syd Nomis Appreciation Society?

And all other victims.

@Nepia Actually, I've seen the Nomis incident on the internet, but I can't find it right now. It's there somewhere if someone wants to look hard.

It's not as blatant as I expected it to be... given the era.

@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Nepia Actually, I've seen the Nomis incident on the internet, but I can't find it right now. It's there somewhere if someone wants to look hard.

It's not as blatant as I expected it to be... given the era.

I've barely seen any of the incidents but have read about them, my grandfather and old man always said he was a dirty bastard (I think they said it admiringly, they also thought Willment was a much better player though), and one of my mate's Dads got clocked by him as a teen in a provincial match (which I think he's proud of considering how much he brings it up).

I used to wind up one of the PR Cantabs about it because he knew Fergie and would get all defensive.

@Nepia It was a different time.

I think they would've said Fergie was hard in those days. And Grizz. And Meads. And many others - including some of your HB legends.

I met Fergie as an underage drinker at the Cantabrian Hotel. He had a sense of humour.

The guy from that era I knew best was Alistair Hopkinson - you couldn't meet a more pleasant or funny person. He was a livestock auctioneer. Died very young.

Because its the Springbok thread . . .
Kevin de Klerk wouldn't last more than a few minutes on a rugby field to-day.
Even in olden times he was old school.

As for Canterbury hard men; the team in the 1971 game against the Lions would have to take the first rank.

@sparky Things getting serious.

Who does the Fern think Razor will actually select as the back three.

I am guessing either Love, Jordan Clarke
or
Jordan, Narawa, Clarke

I also think there's a chance Reiko reclaims the 13 jersey.

@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Who does the Fern think Razor will actually select as the back three.

I am guessing either Love, Jordan Clarke
or
Jordan, Narawa, Clarke

I also think there's a chance Reiko reclaims the 13 jersey.

He probably won't make any changes. Why deviate from his current strategy?

@Frank Sevu I think will remain on the right wing (not what I want) Clarke looked in good enough shape earlier today guess his selection is dependant on if Ioane moves to 13 in place of Proctor

@Grooter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Frank Sevu I think will remain on the right wing (not what I want) Clarke looked in good enough shape earlier today guess his selection is dependant on if Ioane moves to 13 in place of Proctor

I'd guess they'd choose Clarke over Ioane for wing esp given the suspected aerial bombardment but overall they'll remain conservative and yes, sigh, I think they may keep Reece. I prefer Narawa but I suspect they don't.

I would be all for Narawa if he could just show a bit more aggression/enthusiasm.

@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

I would be all for Narawa if he could just show a bit more aggression/enthusiasm.

Does give the impression of being a bit dainty and casual.

If it is about balancing skillsets within the current squad and what is required to play against the Boks both defensively and in attack, my back three would be

15: J. Barrett
14: W. Jordan
11: C. Clarke

This has the best chance of attacking the midfield bombs whilst still covering the back when they do. It has the running game to challenge the Boks defence which has been shown up to be porous against the Aussies.

But back to reality…..

I would like to see a change in the midfield but not necessarily Jordie. I think Razor needs to get Jordie and Quinn together.

Narawa is decent in the air but needs to up his workrate.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

If it is about balancing skillsets within the current squad and what is required to play against the Boks both defensively and in attack, my back three would be

15: J. Barrett
14: W. Jordan
11: C. Clarke

This has the best chance of attacking the midfield bombs whilst still covering the back when they do. It has the running game to challenge the Boks defence which has been shown up to be porous against the Aussies.

But back to reality…..

I would like to see a change in the midfield but not necessarily Jordie. I think Razor needs to get Jordie and Quinn together.

Narawa is decent in the air but needs to up his workrate.

Who would you play in the midfield with that back three?

@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

If it is about balancing skillsets within the current squad and what is required to play against the Boks both defensively and in attack, my back three would be

15: J. Barrett
14: W. Jordan
11: C. Clarke

This has the best chance of attacking the midfield bombs whilst still covering the back when they do. It has the running game to challenge the Boks defence which has been shown up to be porous against the Aussies.

But back to reality…..

I would like to see a change in the midfield but not necessarily Jordie. I think Razor needs to get Jordie and Quinn together.

Narawa is decent in the air but needs to up his workrate.

Who would you play in the midfield with that back three?

The trade off would be retaining Proctor and having Quinn at 2nd 5.

No time like the present Razor.

Or Jordie QT midfield.
Wings Jordan, Clarke and Love fullback.
I would go with this combination

I think Jordan is equally effective at wing or fullback.
Love deserves a chance

I dunno whether QT can defend that well at 13, I've never really felt comfortable with him there for the Chiefs.

He has played there on occasion, and he does likely have the speed to defend the outside there, but he's a traditional 12 in my eyes and I'm not sure that extra space would really suit his game.

. It could be a bit of a Bernie selection though if he was moved there and really flourished. It would also make him very useful as we really don't have any midfielders comfortable at 12 and 13 - that's essentially why ALB is still pretty much undroppable as a squaddie.

@gt12 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

.
. It could be a bit of a Bernie selection though if he was moved there and really flourished. It would also make him very useful as we really don't have any midfielders comfortable at 12 and 13 - that's essentially why ALB is still pretty much undroppable as a squaddie.

I'm not sure if that is your opinion or your view hof the coaches, but I personally think ALB is no longer enough of a useful glue player at 12 or 13, no longer safe enough, speedy enough or sharp enough...

I'd go:

11 Caleb Clarke
14 Will Jordan
15 Ruben Love

But I think we'll see the same back 3 as against Argentina.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@gt12 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

.
. It could be a bit of a Bernie selection though if he was moved there and really flourished. It would also make him very useful as we really don't have any midfielders comfortable at 12 and 13 - that's essentially why ALB is still pretty much undroppable as a squaddie.

I'm not sure if that is your opinion or your view hof the coaches, but I personally think ALB is no longer enough of a useful glue player at 12 or 13, no longer safe enough, speedy enough or sharp enough...

ALB has turned into a penalty / YC magnet so I'm not sure I'd select him, but I'm not sure there is another player in NZ who can easily shift midfield positions (probably only Lam would be the only real option), so I can see why the coaches may like keeping him around.

@gt12 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

ALB has turned into a penalty / YC magnet so I'm not sure I'd select him, but I'm not sure there is another player in NZ who can easily shift midfield positions (probably only Lam would be the only real option), so I can see why the coaches may like keeping him around.

I totally agree. Cards and alternatives. Lam doesn't have the experience, especially at 13, but I thought he deserved more of a chance. My guess is they see him as a 12 and 12 is a bit of a logjam at the moment. I'd have thought he'd go ok at 13 but I haven't seen him play there.

Not having Clarke is a big risk as he looked pretty sharp yesterday. With rain forecasted there's going to be plenty of contestable kicking from Williams and Pollard, and the game will be a little bit slower which would have suited Clarke after a long layoff.

Yip why not play Clarke? Giving him another chance to pick up an injury at NPC....

@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

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Could have done with seeing Tavatavanawai start in one of the 5 games we played already this year.

For god sake.

Released to NPC to get injured.