All Blacks vs Springboks II

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

Super disappointed right now. That was abject. I didn't bother with the last 20 - once we were 14 down we weren't coming back. Had no idea we'd just ship all the points.

You cannot have a result like that and not make some major changes. 15 point loss at home was our worst - to go to 33 is just embarassing. Razor wants utilities playing multiple positions. The evidence is continuing to show that does not work at Test level.

So much wrong. Worst thing is I'm not even super surprised that we turned in a performance like that.

@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fuck. Our scrum is toast..

That was a clear penalty to ABs. Wessels knee on ground. Dropped scrum down and ABs only went back after that destabilisation.

Right in front of AR. And TMO missed. Second Kolbe try should have been scrubbed.

Amashukeli refs based on what he feels, rather than sees sometimes. The Boks last week had the dominant scrum, and I am sure Rassie would have had a word pre-game to ask the ref for them to reap the benefit of that advantage. Before this scrum, the Boks had shown they had the edge. So the pictures to Amashukeli were clear and he penalised the ABs because he felt the Boks had the dominant scrum.

Rather than blame the ref, the ABs need to ask why their scrum has regressed as much as it has from last year when it was a weapon they used to gain penalties and launch strikes from.

I don’t blame the ref as he was on the other side. But the AR ought to have caught that. He called Ardie’s marginal forward pass at around 42.

In terms of regression, I’m starting to think Sami may have a technical issue. Our scrum worsened in first test when Taylor went off and immediately improved in second when McAllister joined.

Although it wasnt consequential to the result in the end - What was the point of having Ruben Love on the bench? Why would you have a 10/15 and sub him on for a wing? Why not have an actual wing on the bench, it doesnt seem like he ever planned on subbing Dmac or BB.

Its like theyre playing Prem 2s and he just wanted to give him a run for the sake of it, but couldnt fathom taking his sons off the pitch

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Anyway women up in our hotel room in Wellington, and I still pissed at what I saw. I actually said to Mrs, that could save us some money, as I feel I won't probably bother to coming to a test again. I can handle us losing, but not thinking an AB team pulled the plug with 15 minutes to go. If I see any press conference and Razor or anyone makes excuses, apart from pointing out how bad they seem to of been coached and played, I will kick the tv. And I can't afford a new one!

Happy birthday mate!

We seem to have some systemic problems with no quick easy fixes. They won't fire razor and even if they were going to can they get a decent replacement mid-season? A bit like 1998, we're going to have to grit our teeth and take our medicine. Hopefully David Kirk will have the stones to make some major changes as soon as he takes over. If we don't improve, by then the decisions will be much easier to make. We are in danger of losing the Bled and being forced to endure a nightmare tour up north before the end of the season

I can handle losses better now than years ago and I shouldn’t be surprised because I actually picked last week we would get up for the eden park game and be extremely disappointing the next week and lose .

But it was so depressing to watch an allblacks team throw in the towel with so much time left on the clock.

Don’t be surprised if we put in a much better performance and beat the wallabies first up then get rolled the next game now .

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

If Scott Robertson is not clearing his desk on Monday morning, he should be told to do so.

He won’t. So what is the next step? He needs to change his assistants as they aren’t working.

Maybe the assistants aren't the problem?

They're all a problem. Including Ryan. Ryan has had some success but he's also had some failures. He was also in charge for that London game.

He's toxic af and his selections have done damage to NZ rugby and held us back.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Does Brodie McAlister get another test after that? Usually not the time to get too carried away but that was seriously a career ending stint from him, Jason Ryan's boy from Sydenham might I add.

No idea how he made the squad,,,,
he spent most of his time at sydenham not playing and nursing (minor) injuries
Has a reputation for being a bit soft

There's been a lot of false dawns in this tenure of Razor's.

Several times I think we've turned the corner only to ship another loss.

A couple of weeks ago it looked like we'd built a formidable forward pack - only to watch it fold like a house of cards.

Scrum buckling and lineout in disarray - and then we're getting killed in the air. We've got five fucking fullbacks in the team last night and we're getting taken apart!

I was pretty confident we were going to win last night and was still confident at half time. But, that second half was a rout - the only comparably awful half of AB rugby I can recall is France in 1999.

I hope this is the fucking nadir - injects some steel into this team.

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I can handle losses better now than years ago and I shouldn’t be surprised because I actually picked last week we would get up for the eden park game and be extremely disappointing the next week and lose .

But it was so depressing to watch an allblacks team throw in the towel with so much time left on the clock.

Don’t be surprised if we put in a much better performance and beat the wallabies first up then get rolled the next game now .

100% the throwing in the towel and not defending till the bitter end was shocking to see. Still that's what you get when you've picked zero of the Crusaders and Blues defensive leaders - the two best NZ defensive teams in recent years.

Instead we've packed the squad with guys who have flaked at the business end of the season when it comes to defence.

@jimmyb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

TBF the Boks were brilliant.
Pretty difficult to survive against that scrum and brilliance in the air but.
Holland needs to start he's a source of ball.
Need Roigard.
BB is not the answer at 10.
Love needs to start.
SB good player but not captaincy.
Razor has to make the tough calls.

If you think fairy pants Holland is the answer you’re mad. He’s not even the fifth best second row in Nz and I’m a die hard highlanders supporter

Holy Hecker

@SammyC said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Does Brodie McAlister get another test after that? Usually not the time to get too carried away but that was seriously a career ending stint from him, Jason Ryan's boy from Sydenham might I add.

No idea how he made the squad,,,,
he spent most of his time at sydenham not playing and nursing (minor) injuries
Has a reputation for being a bit soft

Come back and post more often mate.

This is the Razor quote I reacted to:

"South Africa have probably been criticised for their aerial game and their kicking over the years. But they put so much value and so much time into that and the way they play, and they get return on it. They're just so good at it," Robertson said.

"We've done a lot of prep on it but they just owned that area and they ended up putting so much pressure on us. Well done to them, they know their DNA.

"Especially off the box kicks. They won that battle, bounce, bang, play. And they'd get us on the edge short."

So far we've had the 2nd worst defence in the comp.

The defensive workrate of our primary 7 leads a lot to be desired.

Completed Tackles per 80 Minutes
17.26 Parker
14.31 Lio Willie
13.55 Kirifi
12.88 Finau
11.05 Sititi
10.43 Vaa'i
10.2 Savea

Lowest defensive workrate of the loose forwards.

Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.

@brodean he's saving his energy for the chip kicks.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.

All that laughing and clapping looks pretty dumb when you top the missed tackles stat 3 matches in a row

Time for Beauden and MacKenzie to take a "sabbatical" to their nearest real estate agent training course, no matter what the marketing department says. Whomever we bring in to blood could not possibly be more inconsistent and flaky under pressure

@SammyC said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.

All that laughing and clapping looks pretty dumb when you top the missed tackles stat 3 matches in a row

And yet, is not our worst lock. With him and Barrett we are always going to struggle. Two hybrids against the Boks is not a long term strategy for set piece success.

@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Time for Beauden and MacKenzie to take a "sabbatical" to their nearest real estate agent training course, no matter what the marketing department says. Whomever we bring in to blood could not possibly be more inconsistent and flaky under pressure

Would Love or Jacomb do much worse? Libbock and Sasha are not exactly 80 cappers yet either.

Sunday morning rugby conversations starting with: “Well, how about those Black Ferns, eh?”

Razor:

"Look, you just get extremely disappointed because you put so much work ethic into the team, culturally, and you set yourselves up around being able to dig in and show grit. And then that happens," Robertson said.

Maybe a little less trying to get guys up to represent their country and a little more coaching them to actually perform?

Source:

@gt12 Let me guess the NZR response - a motivational program for the ABs where each player gets a stamp for trying their best, because that’s what really matters after all.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

So far we've had the 2nd worst defence in the comp.

The defensive workrate of our primary 7 leads a lot to be desired.

Completed Tackles per 80 Minutes
17.26 Parker
14.31 Lio Willie
13.55 Kirifi
12.88 Finau
11.05 Sititi
10.43 Vaa'i
10.2 Savea

Lowest defensive workrate of the loose forwards.

Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.

I dont understand why Lio Willie wasn't fully selected in the squad to start with and when he did play well vs France why he didnt make the squad for The Rugby Championship. Instead foodbill Jacobson takes up a spot whilst Razor rotates 8 between Savea, Parker and Sititi

I understand he's a tad small in an ideal world but in terms of what we have I thought he got shafted.

I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.

I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.

Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.

2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.

The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.

South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.

Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.

@game_film Not sure Sotutu is the answer

Player wise.
I thought DMac was really good except for that one fucking kick.
Will Jordan had a horror show. His only notable moments were awful errors
Carter did what he is supposed to.
Proctor has been given a real shot at centre but is not improving. Get rid.
Jordie was pretty good.
BB wasn't the problem today. But his errors were really fucking bad.
Christie is too slow.
Wallace Sititi got heaps of shit but watching it he was literally the only loose forward doing anything. When he went off we had no one cleaning anything up.
Savea? Not a 7. Two steals don't make up for 80 minutes of shit. And that chip kick. And that lineout transition to no one.
Did Parker even play?
Vaai some good, lots bad, no physical presence when we needed it.
Barrett was shit.
Front row got worked.
Off the bench QT did nothing good. Love a horror show. Kirifi is useless. Holland good except for the snyman miss. Oooof the hooker. Williams exposed.on D.

Huse changes needed so watch a winger get dropped (and it will be the wrong one)

On watching the replay we ran a complete different game plan this week, we limited box kicks and up n unders, something we haven't played much at this year.

We went side to side which worked until the 60th minute, we failed to execute twice in the 22 where we could have scored.

Our kicks we're from our 22, long range. The offensive kicks we're grubbers, chips, crossfield etc, this is 50/50, didn't work at all when tried.

We didn't defuse the Springbok kicking game, they owned it and it worked this week.

The last 20 mins, When Taukei'aho went off, the line out collapsed on attack, Springboks captalized several times. We subbed Parker, Sititi and the replacements weren't covering where they were.

We need our injured players back, as after that we are not up to standard.
We also need the fringe squad playing to keep up there game, bring the AB XV to the same country and have those 10 or so extras start for them nearby somewhere.
If we are going to play the same team roughly 6 out of 7 games, and not rotate to build depth, they need to be playing proper rugby.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Player wise.

Proctor has been given a real shot at centre but is not improving. Get rid.

Wallace Sititi got heaps of shit but watching it he was literally the only loose forward doing anything. When he went off we had no one cleaning anything up.

Vaai some good, lots bad, no physical presence when we needed it.
Barrett was shit.

My random thoughts (all of which I qualify with "but alcohol may have affected my judgement and memory"):

1. Thought Proctor had his best game in black. Not a massively high bar, but saw the glimmerings of promise.
2. Thought Sititi was pretty good myself.
3. Also thought Vaa'i was OK
4. He's got to find the courage to drop Barrett

I agree with your comment about that attacking lineout just before half time.

That was begging for a standard throw to 2 or 4 and a maul.

I didn't notice the backs down, but maybe ABs did which tempted them in to the high risk option.

Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.

@SammyC said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Also Tupou Vaa'i's tackle success this season is 77% which is shocking for a loose forward/lock even at NPC level.

All that laughing and clapping looks pretty dumb when you top the missed tackles stat 3 matches in a row

That guy is an idiot. Must be someone better

Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.

Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.

Are their any wingers or fullbacks in NZ who are good under the high ball other than Caleb Clarke? We used to have Corey Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui.

@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.

Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.

@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.

Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.

@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Our scrum only improved when Fabian Holland came on. Same as what happened in Eden Park. The referee was very focused on ruling on what was presented to him and he constantly saw our scrum going backwards in for the majority of 2 tests so he was going to reward this. Vaai and Barret not a powerful enough pairing in the engine room.

Just like not picking Caleb Clarke on the wing when we got massacred in the air was stupid so was not picking our most powerful lock when they had worked over our scrum.

holland at least one scrum packed at blindside

@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Are their any wingers or fullbacks in NZ who are good under the high ball other than Caleb Clarke? We used to have Corey Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui.

We also used to have backs who could consistently kick well......

@tubbyj

From memory Fihaki goes well under the high ball lol

@mariner4life Excellent analysis.

@kidcalder said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@game_film Not sure Sotutu is the answer

One player isn't the answer. Our inability to clinically perform fundamentals such as kick receptions, line outs and scrums seems to be increasingly apparent as games go on. Sometimes we scrape home, this time we got pumped. Fault lies with the everyone from the coaches to the players. There are some fundamental problems in how we are approaching the game at the moment. And we have a coach who is impeding the progress of the whole group because of his selections

Our ten got to almost as many rucks as our blindside. Haha

I find ruck arrival to be the most useless stat.

But it does seem to tie to the eye test on Parker.