@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Gotta throw a pass for it to be intercepted mate.

Maybe its better to throw no pass instead of an intercept pass that leads to a try?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Goes back to gameplan. Our backline is rarely getting the opportunity to showcase their ball playing ability. We ran the ball for about the first 15 minutes of the test on Saturday and we were looking dangerous, then we reverted back to kicking the ball away and surprise surprise, we looked like shit again.

There was a notable example in the second half when we had a three man overlap running out of our own 22 and Beaudy decided to kick it. This is exactly what's hampering us atm, and I feel for both Proctor and Ioane who probably haven't been allowed to show what they are capable of because they just aren't getting enough chances to do so.

Thats BB. He's incapable of focusing on a game plan for 80 minutes.

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Here's the stats for what I was talking about above

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

And that's the issue when picking Kirifi. If he doesn't win turnover ball which is a lot harder to achieve at international level, then what is he there for? It's all he has to his game. I didn't mind him getting a go as reward for what he has done domestically, but after 6 tests and at 28 years old, what more is he gonna show us?

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

Whether or not he's in the 23 when Jacobson returns he takes up a spot that could go to someone else in the wider squad.

Meanwhile more tests tick over without Lakai getting a look and Lio Willie has been discarded from the squad.

There was certainly an opportunity wasted to look at alternatives for the bench loose forward.

They have had a look at 4 new loosie options this year...

CLW, Vaai, Kirifi and Parker...

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Yep, I've been watching closely and Proctor has mostly been a dummy runner on attack and a man used as a first clean option when the likes of Jordie takes it into contact.

Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Here's the stats for what I was talking about above

View image

What I get from those stats is tight forwards should not be passing that much in a game.

They should be hitting rucks, hitting mauls, with some carries.

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

Whether or not he's in the 23 when Jacobson returns he takes up a spot that could go to someone else in the wider squad.

Meanwhile more tests tick over without Lakai getting a look and Lio Willie has been discarded from the squad.

Jacobson was probably the Chiefs best player this year but if he's not fit he shouldn't be in the squad.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Can you get those stats

Nothing that specific sorry

Jacobson is a good player, but he's a glue player. We've gone from having him, Blackadder and Dalton all there, to having none of them. All glue to no glue, it's no wonder shit's falling apart.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I wasn't that bothered by the intercept, that shit happens. The huge problem was we appeared to change our gameplan as a result and started kicking it a lot more, which led to the 2nd half disaster. Complete lack of leadership when a simple intercept makes you shelve a gameplan that was actually finding space.

People whinge about Rieko but I don't ever remember him throwing an intercept. Proctor is in there for his distribution game.

Proctor has zero try assists this season.

I said when people were clamouring for a "distributing centre" to replace Rieko that the vast majority of the problem was the way the attack was structured. I was often told I didn't know what I was talking about and Rieko was a winge in the wrong position who couldn't pass.

Their tune has fucking changed now.

On another note Kirifi has won a single turnover.

Yep - congrats your SR form got you the jersey you've coveted, but you're not Test material.

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

seemed to work nicely in the first half. I thought it looked good

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The out the back stuff is horse shit. Its the same pattern the Crusaders played last year to their detriment. All of the strike runners end up running diagonally across the field and no one is running hard and straight onto the ball.

seemed to work nicely in the first half. I thought it looked good

It does create space.

The Boks ran some NFL style plays and whilst it looks like obstruction it wasn’t called. We need more dummy runners rather than just one or two.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@African-Monkey would he be there if Jacobsen was fit? I don’t think so.

For me, there's better versatile options out there. Kirifi is only a 7 and is a one trick pony in that 7 position.

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Worth noting that the way the backline is setup the 13 doesn't make many passes

If the ball gets to the wing it's Jordie passing out the back to someone else who then passes to the wing. The centre plays flat so is the decoy if it's going wide.

If it does get to the centre, the vast majority of the time its to take it to the line

In this setup the centre often passes less than the wings

Which is mental

I played inside centre because I could put a man in space and I had no wheels

My outside centre was the man in space, and he had wheels

@Billy-Webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.

I don't know that I'd see it quite like that.

As the ball comes out of the ruck, Kolbe retreats to cover any kicks through, leaving Reinach to head into the line and take Jordan at second receiver. At this point you've got Proctor, Parker, and Carter against Kolbe who sprints back into the line and decides to go for it. He's never in a position to make a tackle IMHO and Proctor never fixes him in defence.

Fassi is the only defender left if that ball finds Parker and then Carter OR Proctor holds it and stands Kolbe up.

Proctor makes a decision which in retrospect you could easily say is good: offloading in contact is worse than passing and staying alive. He passes a step earlier or later, and Kolbe is still in no-man's land and Carter in the corner

Kolbe makes a good read, as it turns out. He gets into space to make a tackle but he has to pick one of three or none of three, and gets it right