Who should be AB captain?

@Jet said in Who should be AB captain?:

@stodders said in Who should be AB captain?:

I think Savea off the bench as an impact sub makes sense. His athleticism would be able to make a real difference against tiring defences. Plus he covers midfield as a hybrid player, so ABs can go for a 6-2 bench split

You start putting him on the bench and he will be looking for an early release and go off to Japan.
These guys think they are the team.

They cant countenance being dropped.

Then that is what needs to happen. A coach can't be held hostage because the NZRU have signed a player up. Players form goes up and down. The jersey is there to be earned, not owned.

If a player decides they don't want to fight for their jersey, it tells you a lot about their character and where their motivation lies. It probably would be a good test for Razor - drop the leadership group and see which ones come back harder and which ones seek an exit.

I voted for Scooter on the condition they drop his brother.

@Jet said in Who should be AB captain?:

@stodders said in Who should be AB captain?:

I think Savea off the bench as an impact sub makes sense. His athleticism would be able to make a real difference against tiring defences. Plus he covers midfield as a hybrid player, so ABs can go for a 6-2 bench split

You start putting him on the bench and he will be looking for an early release and go off to Japan.
These guys think they are the team.

They cant countenance being dropped.

I'm not so sure. He might enjoy not having his body beaten up over 80 minutes each week-he's not getting any younger.

@ACT-Crusader said in Who should be AB captain?:

I voted for Scooter on the condition they drop his brother.

That'll mean Jordie gets the chop now. Be more precise please ACT!

Notable that none of the SR captains are in the best AB XV. Proctor is one of four Hurricanes co-captains but Kirifi is their real captain.

@Jet said in Who should be AB captain?:

@stodders said in Who should be AB captain?:

@gt12 said in Who should be AB captain?:

@voodoo said in Who should be AB captain?:

@Kirwan said in Who should be AB captain?:

I went Taylor, even though it’ll be hard to sub your captain every game

Why though? SA do it. Why not have one or 2 ready captaincy replacements for 20 mins? Seems a bit archaic to absolutely require your starting captain to go 80

Taylor all the way for me

Me too, but I'm more interested in who finishes. I can't see another person beyond Ardie. TBH, I'd have Barrett in the 23, but I don't rate him at all as a captain - he was a much better player when he was a YC/RC magnet. As a captain, the dangerous parts of his game have been squeezed out - which should be good - but all we are left with is an undersized lock.

100% agree with this. We aren’t seeing the real Scott Barrett at the moment.

He was a savage pre-captaincy.

I think this is a key thing, people seemt o get made captain....and then theyre just the captain...we dont seem to care if the captaincy is a burden or an honour that makes them raise above themselves

NOT suggesting for AB captaincy but as an example Tavatavanawai stepped up and is playing as good if not better after being made captain...others like scooter in my opinion seem to find it an additional burden

@Jet said in Who should be AB captain?:

He was a savage pre-captaincy.

I'm not sure if the captaincy is the problem. I question whether his body is holding up

His form in SR has declined significantly... he's had lower back issues and other niggles. In SR he did pull out a handful of good performances but that was after a string of anonymous games

Maybe he's just banged up and can't reach a high standard week after week now?

Remove the captaincy from him and include him in the 23 sometimes. He can be used to ease Holland and Darry into their roles

Codie all the way for me. Plenty of options when he is subbed off. One of those is Luke Jacobson as LF cover

Taylor, Vaai and Jordie are the only guys I see as definite starters at this point.

@reprobate said in Who should be AB captain?:

Taylor, Vaai and Jordie are the only guys I see as definite starters at this point.

Will Jordan? Roigard when fit?

@canefan said in Who should be AB captain?:

@reprobate said in Who should be AB captain?:

Taylor, Vaai and Jordie are the only guys I see as definite starters at this point.

Will Jordan? Roigard when fit?

Jordan was on my list a week ago.
Roigard, yep I just didn't want to jinx him as he is starting to look a bit Blackadder-esque.

Jordan has to start, his attacking talents are unmatched and his try scoring record is the best in the world by a country mile. Razor just had to leave him on the bloody wing where he's been excelling at test level. Fullback just exposes his weaknesses.

@Jet said in Who should be AB captain?:

@stodders said in Who should be AB captain?:

I think Savea off the bench as an impact sub makes sense. His athleticism would be able to make a real difference against tiring defences. Plus he covers midfield as a hybrid player, so ABs can go for a 6-2 bench split

You start putting him on the bench and he will be looking for an early release and go off to Japan.
These guys think they are the team.

They cant countenance being dropped.

Yup and the public will be on his side and it'll end up being a PR disaster.

Ardie does what Ardie wants.

I think Savea should be the way to go.

Taylor or Ardie for me, both seem to have the mana within the side. Barrett would be better in a support role and can concentrate on getting back to his best.

Scooter is Ross Taylor. Where’s our Baz?

@ACT-Crusader said in Who should be AB captain?:

Scooter is Ross Taylor. Where’s our Baz?

Ross Taylor was pretty much always either clearly the best player or 2nd best player in the team - and all time top 3 batsman, which I guess equates to all time top 3 forward?
Zero questions about his spot as a starter.
Averaged more i.e. played better as captain.

Scooter isn't quite Lee Germon, but he's no Ross Taylor.

Scooter was our best lock in 2023 and easily in our top 3 most important players.

@ACT-Crusader said in Who should be AB captain?:

Scooter was our best lock in 2023 and easily in our top 3 most important players.

Well that was 2 years ago.

I think there are people who would say he's not top 3 locks at the moment. Im sitting on the fence there myself.

Vaa'i is not a definite starter for me. He can be a bit of a flake defensively. He missed 5 tackles this weekend and there was that try set up by Matera off the back was it?

Controversial I realise but I actually think our best two locks are Holland and Tuipulotu. Not sure about Vaa'i at 6 either due to his defensive flakiness.

@brodean said in Who should be AB captain?:

Vaa'i is not a definite starter for me. He can be a bit of a flake defensively. He missed 5 tackles this weekend and there was that try set up by Matera off the back was it?

Controversial I realise but I actually think our best two locks are Holland and Tuipulotu. Not sure about Vaa'i at 6 either due to his defensive flakiness.

Darry is another solid performer

@brodean said in Who should be AB captain?:

Vaa'i is not a definite starter for me. He can be a bit of a flake defensively. He missed 5 tackles this weekend and there was that try set up by Matera off the back was it?

Controversial I realise but I actually think our best two locks are Holland and Tuipulotu. Not sure about Vaa'i at 6 either due to his defensive flakiness.

Another who seems to be getting better and better the less he’s available…..

I’m a fan and our only real impact lock right now.

@ACT-Crusader said in Who should be AB captain?:

Scooter is Ross Taylor. Where’s our Baz?

You want someone massively overrated ?

I reckon Vaai, might help him cool his head a little and he's going to be a mainstay for several years if he keeps up his typical form.

Wouldn't be upset with Taylor though, just not sure if it would be a burden to him like it is to Barrett.

@MN5 said in Who should be AB captain?:

You want someone massively overrated ?

No, I think it is clear now we don't need any more Scottish players in the ABs....

While being captain is no doubt a huge honour, you wonder if SB is enjoying it.

If not, would he be big enough to go to Razor and ask him to pass it on, by the same.token, is Razor man enough to take it away in hopes it inspires him to the form he was in when he wasn't captain?

I'm gonna guess no for both, but who knows

@nostrildamus said in Who should be AB captain?:

@MN5 said in Who should be AB captain?:

You want someone massively overrated ?

No, I think it is clear now we don't need any more Scottish players in the ABs....

For once I agree 100% with you. Finlay Christie is hardly a fair swap for Sean Lineen, the Leslies, Metcalfe, Maitland etc.

@MN5 said in Who should be AB captain?:

@nostrildamus said in Who should be AB captain?:

@MN5 said in Who should be AB captain?:

You want someone massively overrated ?

No, I think it is clear now we don't need any more Scottish players in the ABs....

For once I agree 100% with you. Finlay Christie is hardly a fair swap for Sean Lineen, the Leslies, Metcalfe, Maitland etc.

Maitland was pretty good. Not sure I remember the other ones.

so, been a couple of comments on other threads but worth its own discussion

Savea obviously isnt a long term solution, i imagine not past next years WRC

Who have we got coming through? my preference would be someone young so we can have several years out of them, some consistant leadership

Is there some 22 year old out there that could be a bolter for the SA tour, someone who could be in line for 2 years time?

If Darry firms up his TH credentials, he and Holland look like a long term pairing. He speaks well and works hard.

@reprobate said in Who should be AB captain?:

If Darry firms up his TH credentials, he and Holland look like a long term pairing. He speaks well and works hard.

If Darry plays like he did last week in most games he'd certainly be a contender.

Darry

encouraging to see a few people agreeing quite quickly, do we think there is any chance he'll captain the midweek games in RSA?

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. 2 seasons is an eternity in pro rugby - let's just see who goes well next year and figure it out then.
That said, Darry could be a bolter. But ScoBa looked a contender before Razor and his game fell apart. Dalts after RWC23 looked a prospect (check who was talking in the huddles) - but we know how that went.

Reckon we just let the lads play and see how it looks at the end of the RWC

@nzzp i dont think it hurts to discuss given the renewed opportunity of midweek tour games to test guys in something between super and full international

not claiming we'll send an approaved list to Rennie or anything

I think because of the style we play, Italy are going to get pumped.

@Kiwiwomble said in Who should be AB captain?:

encouraging to see a few people agreeing quite quickly, do we think there is any chance he'll captain the midweek games in RSA?

I think he's a chance to be a first choice lock in the test side in which case he wouldn't be playing in the mid week team but I guess we will see.

Based on what we had with Whitelock and Retallick I like the concept of having two 2m+ locks. It could be any combo of Holland, Darry, and Lord with Vaa'i, Tuipulotu and Barrett backing up.

@nzzp go back to 2022/2023 I thought Papali'i was the obvious choice post 2023 RWC, sadly didn't pan out.

@taniwharugby whoever is captain post 2027, I can guarantee it won't be the bloke headbutting the coach