England v All Blacks

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

The issues with this team were obvious in the semi final loss against England in 2019 and they’re almost identical to what they are now. Absolutely nothing has changed. Literally nothing

I have become a parody of myself talking about that 2019 semi.

I cannot believe TJP, Reece, Beaudy, ALB, Rieko have managed to hang on for as long as they have.

I wanted them gone then!!!!

5 years ago!

We have gotten the captain selection wrong twice. It should have been Whitelock over Cane.
To be fair I cant say who it should be now, but it's not Scooter anyway. Probably Codie or Roigard (which is ridiculous really).

Ardie should have been riding pine once or twice just to put some manners on him. The boy is a bit too big for his boots me thinks. He is trying to carve out an "Uncle Siya"-esque holier than thou friend to all type brand.

Id like to see him tackle someone. Preferably in a dominant fashion.

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

Highlights:

View embedded content

Watching that back, England's first three tries all came from really passive New Zealand tackling (Carter, Beauden Barrett, Tupaea, Scott Barrett and Beauden Barrett again).

England's last shouldn't have stood. Clear (and totally unnecessary) obstruction by Henry Pollock.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

The issues with this team were obvious in the semi final loss against England in 2019 and they’re almost identical to what they are now.

I'd go back to the 2017 Lions.

Absolutely nothing has changed. Literally nothing

Except 3 coaching set-ups. Maybe just change the assistants this time.

SBW right shoulder test 2.

Ground zero.

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern.

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

The reality is we’ve had two shit coaches in a row with good squads who haven’t reached their potential because of a shit leadership core and crap assistant coaches and head coaches with zero direction

And both foster and razor were nepotism hires for different reasons

We've gone backward since 2023. But at least we now know simply swapping the coach isn't the answer, eh? Just a pity it's taken 2 years for the penny to drop.

We were lucky to run into a one dimension Irish team that RWC. 2021 and 2022 were absolutely terrible. We also lost the three players with anything between their ears in Smtih, Retallick, and Whitelock. That pool loss to France was the same old shit. Don’t sugar coat 2023 thinking it was anything but the same old shit since 2020

100% on the money.

Blessed we came up against a geriatric Sexton and Irish team who shot their bolt in the preceding years.

Yep, after that we needed a coach with a proven record of success, a completely fresh approach and unsullied by involvement in previous AB coaching set-ups.

Working well, isn't it?

Both Foster and Robertson hadn’t proved a thing as an international head coach before taken the reigns and it showed.

Not keeping Schmidt, and bashing Robertson’s ego in with a baseball bat and making him an assistant coach, was a complete fuck up. We could have had Schmidt, Robertson, and McMillan as a coaching team

Old ground, but no way was Schmidt going to have anything to do with NZR (and Robertson) after the way Robertson was given the coaching gig.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

The issues with this team were obvious in the semi final loss against England in 2019 and they’re almost identical to what they are now.

I'd go back to the 2017 Lions.

Absolutely nothing has changed. Literally nothing

Except 3 coaching set-ups. Maybe just change the assistants this time.

SBW right shoulder test 2.

Ground zero.

Ground zero was putting Beuaden at 15, and not selecting Crotty, B Smith, and Owen Franks, and putting S Barrett at 6. That’s when the fever dream started

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern.

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

The reality is we’ve had two shit coaches in a row with good squads who haven’t reached their potential because of a shit leadership core and crap assistant coaches and head coaches with zero direction

And both foster and razor were nepotism hires for different reasons

We've gone backward since 2023. But at least we now know simply swapping the coach isn't the answer, eh? Just a pity it's taken 2 years for the penny to drop.

We were lucky to run into a one dimension Irish team that RWC. 2021 and 2022 were absolutely terrible. We also lost the three players with anything between their ears in Smtih, Retallick, and Whitelock. That pool loss to France was the same old shit. Don’t sugar coat 2023 thinking it was anything but the same old shit since 2020

100% on the money.

Blessed we came up against a geriatric Sexton and Irish team who shot their bolt in the preceding years.

Yep, after that we needed a coach with a proven record of success, a completely fresh approach and unsullied by involvement in previous AB coaching set-ups.

Working well, isn't it?

I twerked for Razor big time. He HAD to get the job. But we also need to stand by the mantra of being a high performance "brand".

It isnt working. So off you pop son, hand back your car park pass.

Get him gone.

The job is a privilege not a right. Same goes for the players.

The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.

@jimmyb you are correct
The discipline is as bad as it was under the back end of Hansen,Foster and now Robinson and it has’nt improved under the later
The aimless high kick and cross kick game still a major problem under all 3 coaches

@Steven-Harris It feels like we are at our best when we hold on the ball and get quick ball that can either go up the guts or wide and quick.

The cross kicks have become a predictable frustration and not a percentage gain.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

The issues with this team were obvious in the semi final loss against England in 2019 and they’re almost identical to what they are now. Absolutely nothing has changed. Literally nothing

I have become a parody of myself talking about that 2019 semi.

I cannot believe TJP, Reece, Beaudy, ALB, Rieko have managed to hang on for as long as they have.

I wanted them gone then!!!!

5 years ago!

We have gotten the captain selection wrong twice. It should have been Whitelock over Cane.
To be fair I cant say who it should be now, but it's not Scooter anyway. Probably Codie or Roigard (which is ridiculous really).

Ardie should have been riding pine once or twice just to put some manners on him. The boy is a bit too big for his boots me thinks. He is trying to carve out an "Uncle Siya"-esque holier than thou friend to all type brand.

Id like to see him tackle someone. Preferably in a dominant fashion.

Yup.

Ardie has been allowed to become bigger than the All Blacks.

@sparky back your carry and clean systems , get the defense moving around side to side and then use your better ball carriers who can off load in the wider channels
Utilise your wingers who can step around the ruck area creating doubt for defenders

@Steven-Harris said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb you are correct
The discipline is as bad as it was under the back end of Hansen,Foster and now Robinson and it has’nt improved under the later
The aimless high kick and cross kick game still a major problem under all 3 coaches

The only thing ill say about the discipline, is that its not just on field stuff that contributes to it.

It's the refs interpretation of your discipline thats the problem......

And we dont hold the refs/TMO's/citing commissioners/World Rugby's feet to the fire enough.

The match is 80 minutes long, but the game starts in the post match press conference of this game and continues up to the first whistle of the next match.

We are being leathered, off the field, as much as on.

Rassie gets it. We dont.

Or we do get it, but we want to be spiritual guardians, loved etc.

A yellow card for tackling. That is all.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern.

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

The reality is we’ve had two shit coaches in a row with good squads who haven’t reached their potential because of a shit leadership core and crap assistant coaches and head coaches with zero direction

And both foster and razor were nepotism hires for different reasons

We've gone backward since 2023. But at least we now know simply swapping the coach isn't the answer, eh? Just a pity it's taken 2 years for the penny to drop.

We were lucky to run into a one dimension Irish team that RWC. 2021 and 2022 were absolutely terrible. We also lost the three players with anything between their ears in Smtih, Retallick, and Whitelock. That pool loss to France was the same old shit. Don’t sugar coat 2023 thinking it was anything but the same old shit since 2020

100% on the money.

Blessed we came up against a geriatric Sexton and Irish team who shot their bolt in the preceding years.

Yep, after that we needed a coach with a proven record of success, a completely fresh approach and unsullied by involvement in previous AB coaching set-ups.

Working well, isn't it?

I twerked for Razor big time. He HAD to get the job. But we also need to stand by the mantra of being a high performance "brand".

It isnt working. So off you pop son, hand back your car park pass.

Get him gone.

The job is a privilege not a right. Same goes for the players.

The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.

Who do you think should be the coach? Serious question.
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.

No score from the All Blacks from the 16th to the 65th minute. 🤯

@Jet That was the start of the ending.

@W32 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern.

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

The reality is we’ve had two shit coaches in a row with good squads who haven’t reached their potential because of a shit leadership core and crap assistant coaches and head coaches with zero direction

And both foster and razor were nepotism hires for different reasons

We've gone backward since 2023. But at least we now know simply swapping the coach isn't the answer, eh? Just a pity it's taken 2 years for the penny to drop.

We were lucky to run into a one dimension Irish team that RWC. 2021 and 2022 were absolutely terrible. We also lost the three players with anything between their ears in Smtih, Retallick, and Whitelock. That pool loss to France was the same old shit. Don’t sugar coat 2023 thinking it was anything but the same old shit since 2020

100% on the money.

Blessed we came up against a geriatric Sexton and Irish team who shot their bolt in the preceding years.

Yep, after that we needed a coach with a proven record of success, a completely fresh approach and unsullied by involvement in previous AB coaching set-ups.

Working well, isn't it?

I twerked for Razor big time. He HAD to get the job. But we also need to stand by the mantra of being a high performance "brand".

It isnt working. So off you pop son, hand back your car park pass.

Get him gone.

The job is a privilege not a right. Same goes for the players.

The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.

Who do you think should be the coach?

Good question. In retrospect everyone wants Schmidt, but that’s also the bloke that got completely out foxed with a one dimensional game plan by Hansen in 2019. And the same guy who’s done ok with the wallabies but not great.

You could say Jamie Joseph, but outside of 2015 SR, he’s done nothing.

Everyone else’s is tied up with lucrative deals in Europe and Japan. Wouldn’t want any of the NH lot. So we haven’t got much

@W32 Jake White

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 Jake White

Oh please let this happen. You can have this piston wristed gibbon any day of the week. Jake White was lucky to have some generational players that would have died for the Jersey. Hes nothing but a loud mouthed fool.

Razor needs to be coached how to coach at the international level. Shouldn’t be getting sacked…. Yet…. but needs someone to come in as a sounding and challenge every decision from selection all the way down.

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 Jake White

I assume that was in jest. If not:
Good coach for Sa'ns.
Not sure he'd be your guy.

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern.

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

The reality is we’ve had two shit coaches in a row with good squads who haven’t reached their potential because of a shit leadership core and crap assistant coaches and head coaches with zero direction

And both foster and razor were nepotism hires for different reasons

We've gone backward since 2023. But at least we now know simply swapping the coach isn't the answer, eh? Just a pity it's taken 2 years for the penny to drop.

We were lucky to run into a one dimension Irish team that RWC. 2021 and 2022 were absolutely terrible. We also lost the three players with anything between their ears in Smtih, Retallick, and Whitelock. That pool loss to France was the same old shit. Don’t sugar coat 2023 thinking it was anything but the same old shit since 2020

100% on the money.

Blessed we came up against a geriatric Sexton and Irish team who shot their bolt in the preceding years.

Yep, after that we needed a coach with a proven record of success, a completely fresh approach and unsullied by involvement in previous AB coaching set-ups.

Working well, isn't it?

I twerked for Razor big time. He HAD to get the job. But we also need to stand by the mantra of being a high performance "brand".

It isnt working. So off you pop son, hand back your car park pass.

Get him gone.

The job is a privilege not a right. Same goes for the players.

The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.

Who do you think should be the coach?

Good question. In retrospect everyone wants Schmidt, but that’s also the bloke that got completely out foxed with a one dimensional game plan by Hansen in 2019. And the same guy who’s done ok with the wallabies but not great.

You could say Jamie Joseph, but outside of 2015 SR, he’s done nothing.

Everyone else’s is tied up with lucrative deals in Europe and Japan. Wouldn’t want any of the NH lot. So we haven’t got much

Yeah. Razor is it. He may yet come good.

@W32 Nah, not having that at all. Remind me why he moved on after 07?

@Billy-Webb Not joking. Let’s assume that Rennie or JJ or another kiwi aren’t coming in to hang around and advise, someone like Uncle Jakey would be perfect as an outsider.

@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

Fucking shithouse.

Really shit performance from us.

The media wont ask the questions we need them to ask.

Bryn Hall, Parsons, Ross Karl, Wilson, Mils, Kirst and Beav, Marshall, Tony Johnson. You all have a stake in this shit show.

Razor.......you absolute fucking moron.

Two coaches have walked under your tenure in 2 seasons.

> Ruben Love clocking up air miles to watch Beauden Barrett do a rugby equivalent of Karaoke.

Brilliant.

I hope he knocks it put of the park with his swan song next weekend and takes a few of his backing singers with him

@MN5 I think Beauden is smart enough to go out on his own terms. I reckon he calls it when he lands back home.

@W32 said in England Vs All Blacks:

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 Jake White

Oh please let this happen. You can have this piston wristed gibbon any day of the week. Jake White was lucky to have some generational players that would have died for the Jersey. Hes nothing but a loud mouthed fool.

He resigned because he knew that he had a drink problem and was done. Confirmed by actions since

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@MN5 I think Beauden is smart enough to go out on his own terms. I reckon he calls it when he lands back home.

Beauden Barrett was awful today. He was totally outplayed in every facet of Outside Half play by George Ford.

Who do you think should be the coach? Serious question.
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.

Jamie Jo or Vern Cotter. Even if one got added in as an assistant.

#2 in the world but we are definitely mediocre right now.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

@rewa267 said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think it’s difficult for Razor to get rid of the ill discipline within the All Blacks from the Foster era. We see it in the Chiefs & why they can’t win important games & it’s rares it head in the All Blacks

Blaming Foster & The Chiefs for Robertson's inability to instill on-field discipline after 2 years in charge has to be some of the finest satire or sarcasm I've seen on The Fern. Well done sir!

Right now, I'd fucking love 10% of the discipline & resolve Foster's AB's showed in RWC2023.

That was Schmidt. Come on. Foster’s shitshow was before Schmidt arrived.

Yeah, nothing structural in NZ rugby needs to be looked at. All hunky-dory. Just need to find that one bloke who'll sort everything out

NZ have had a number of poor vintages at u20 level in recent years, with this year being the first to showcase some players who could become ABs in the future.

Whereas England, France and SA have had some very good vintages in the same period.

@Victor-Meldrew problem is razor being burnt from experience players lack of discipline Cody Taylor this week. Ardie last week. Pre Foster South Africa were way more ill disciplined.

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@MN5 I think Beauden is smart enough to go out on his own terms. I reckon he calls it when he lands back home.

Or Seppuku on the middle of principality stadium before the game starts

@hikastags said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who do you think should be the coach? Serious question.
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.

Jamie Jo or Vern Cotter. Even if one got added in as an assistant.

#2 in the world but we are definitely mediocre right now.

Oh yes two coaches with shit super rugby campaigns and average tier 2 international results. Yes please!

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Billy-Webb Not joking. Let’s assume that Rennie or JJ or another kiwi aren’t coming in to hang around and advise, someone like Uncle Jakey would be perfect as an outsider.

It would certainly be interesting.
2 years honeymoon, then I think the wheels would come off.

@Billy-Webb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 Jake White

I assume that was in jest. If not:
Good coach for Sa'ns.
Not sure he'd be your guy.

I’m hoping he just goes away at this point. It’s always been all about him if he goes to NZ, that would be fine

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@hikastags said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who do you think should be the coach? Serious question.
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.

Jamie Jo or Vern Cotter. Even if one got added in as an assistant.

#2 in the world but we are definitely mediocre right now.

Oh yes two coaches with shit super rugby campaigns and average tier 2 international results. Yes please!

Blues won it last year and had a fair few injuries this year. At least he has international experience and an identity for how he likes to play, unlike Razor.

@Billy-Webb Purely thinking as a short term consultant here. 2027 it’s Rennie or JJ unless Surfboard Jesus turns it around.

@hikastags said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

@hikastags said in England Vs All Blacks:

Who do you think should be the coach? Serious question.
You guys make me laugh. #2 in the world and acting like it’s the end of the world. It can be far worse believe me.

Jamie Jo or Vern Cotter. Even if one got added in as an assistant.

#2 in the world but we are definitely mediocre right now.

Oh yes two coaches with shit super rugby campaigns and average tier 2 international results. Yes please!

Blues won it last year and had a fair few injuries this year. At least he has international experience and an identity for how he likes to play, unlike Razor.

Yes the one year everyone was fighting for the scraps while the crusaders sorted themselves out. His style is loosing, ask Scotland

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

The issues with this team were obvious in the semi final loss against England in 2019 and they’re almost identical to what they are now. Absolutely nothing has changed. Literally nothing

I think this is important.

We have a leadership team because we want them to lead the side, discipline, install All blacks standards and uphold the legacy. They are their because of their experience and mental strength when times are tough and things arent going our way.

Over the last 6 years, the all Blacks have endured many ‘firsts’ and created unwanted history.

Quite frequently it has been a turbulent time and i just wonder if some of our leadership team have been too scarred by record losses they have been involved in. We have seen us go into our shell when the game gets tough, we have seen us give up against the boks, they were part of losing 2 world cups.

These kind of losses impact players and families lives because it affects a nation - look at the Irish series and the foster sack debacle. For any player that would have been difficult to deal with.

The old saying is ‘what doesnt kill you makes you stronger’ but in our case, im not so sure. i just wonder if the experience we are clinging onto within the team is the wrong experience due to players dealing with the pressures of being the first AB team to lose a series against Ireland, first to lose to Argentina etc etc and its having a negative impact on the side and the younger players in the team.

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@MN5 I think Beauden is smart enough to go out on his own terms. I reckon he calls it when he lands back home.

4 tries short of Howletts record and a few caps shy of Whitelocks cap record. Im not sure.

Him and Savea should have been in the Willie Le Roux role now. Showing the nippers where their skin folds should be, knocking the late nights on the head when they see it getting out of hand and maybe give them the odd cameo.

We cannot continue to build a team around this pair.

All Blacks have responded well from loses this year. Lost to Argentina destroyed SA at Eden Park. Lost to SA smashed the Wallabies next week. Wales should prepare for black lash