@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Watching the post match. I always found Goldie to be an AB fan bois, but both he and Mils are increasingly critical of this team
Mils looked like he was chewing a wasp in the post match
The frustrating thing about all this is we have some really good players. I've seen much worse AB teams in recent years. Historically the ABs invariably won the mental battle with grit and intelligence. This lot are all over the shop.
@Snowy said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
That's not even fair on the ref, let alone the players and paying fans.
I stopped paying to go to rugby matches because of the card lottery about 15 years ago. Used to go to matches all over the world but just had enough of the inequality of contest with uneven numbers on the field. It changes the whole flow of a match. Watching on TV I can just turn it off when the card inevitably comes out. Sad, but life is like that. I'll probably be back next year, but I don't think rugby does anything for me anymore, except piss me off. I really just watch to see the result rather than actually enjoying it.
Really pleased the cricket is starting.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).
Could not disagree more. Cards have been ruining games for years now and I am sick of it.
Yep.
Having said all that, well done England, you play the cards that you're dealt. I just think that we need better croupiers if they want me to return to their casino. The odds of winning by seeing an equal number of players contest (even if my team loses) aren't good enough for me to invest in tickets at the moment,
It's like being in an abusive relationship. I keep going back thinking surely it won't happen again, but then it does, again and again and again. Spectacle after spectacle ruined by cards and nothing ever changes.
One theory I have is there are quite number of "fans" that actually love the controversy and online outrage that cards generate. It would also generate lots of clicks on media articles etc, so in a way the more controversial a game is, the more money that gets made out of it.
I also suspect that NZ and SA fans are the most vocal about it because we have been on the end of so many absolute howlers. We need far more cards like the Irish got against us for those up North to realise it is destroying the game.
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
The frustrating thing about all this is we have some really good players. I've seen much worse AB teams in recent years. Historically the ABs invariably won the mental battle with grit and intelligence. This lot are all over the shop.
And they're checking out before they even get to the counter.
@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
The frustrating thing about all this is we have some really good players. I've seen much worse AB teams in recent years. Historically the ABs invariably won the mental battle with grit and intelligence. This lot are all over the shop.
And they're checking out before they even get to the counter.
At times they're off their trolley
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
The frustrating thing about all this is we have some really good players. I've seen much worse AB teams in recent years. Historically the ABs invariably won the mental battle with grit and intelligence. This lot are all over the shop.
And they're checking out before they even get to the counter.
At times they're off their trolley
Everything must go.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Snowy said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
That's not even fair on the ref, let alone the players and paying fans.
I stopped paying to go to rugby matches because of the card lottery about 15 years ago. Used to go to matches all over the world but just had enough of the inequality of contest with uneven numbers on the field. It changes the whole flow of a match. Watching on TV I can just turn it off when the card inevitably comes out. Sad, but life is like that. I'll probably be back next year, but I don't think rugby does anything for me anymore, except piss me off. I really just watch to see the result rather than actually enjoying it.
Really pleased the cricket is starting.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
It didn’t ruin the game is my point. Don’t do it. Sometimes the ref will ping you. (Same goes for Earl).
Could not disagree more. Cards have been ruining games for years now and I am sick of it.
Yep.
Having said all that, well done England, you play the cards that you're dealt. I just think that we need better croupiers if they want me to return to their casino. The odds of winning by seeing an equal number of players contest (even if my team loses) aren't good enough for me to invest in tickets at the moment,
It's like being in an abusive relationship. I keep going back thinking surely it won't happen again, but then it does, again and again and again. Spectacle after spectacle ruined by cards and nothing ever changes.
One theory I have is there are quite number of "fans" that actually love the controversy and online outrage that cards generate. It would also generate lots of clicks on media articles etc, so in a way the more controversial a game is, the more money that gets made out of it.
I also suspect that NZ and SA fans are the most vocal about it because we have been on the end of so many absolute howlers. We need far more cards like the Irish got against us for those up North to realise it is destroying the game.
I'd be more likely to buy a ticket to watch the Kiwis right now. I want to be entertained
Rugby does hate itself. The TMO intervention is ridiculous.
The two that I hated the most went in our favour. England had a penalty that got reversed for a minuscule knock on.
The try that was taken off them was dubious enough, but for them then to be penalised for a not clear cut offside at the lineout? That penalty could be called at every single lineout.
Just fuck off TMO. Rugby has got this very very wrong.
@mariner4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Rugby has got this very very wrong.
what shits me is the teams seem to looking for reasons to send people from the field. There is zero benefit of the doubt, figure it out afterwards. And the inconsistency from week to week, and within a game is astonishing.
Professionals? More like paid amateurs.
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
Watching the post match. I always found Goldie to be an AB fan bois, but both he and Mils are increasingly critical of this team
I've always seen Wilson as the only one prepared to criticise the ABs.
Once Cam Roigard went off our kicking game was appalling. Without him, our kicking game is comfortably the worst of all the Tier One teams.
We must play players who can kick astutely and accurately at 9. We need to find better tactical kickers at 10. Our midfield needs to be coached how to kick.
Well, that was all pretty embarrassing. An average England side whose lineout basically completely self-destructed - handing us a shitload of good possession - and they still beat us very soundly.
Robertson ditching McKenzie for Barrett last year, and more importantly persisting with him in the face of continual unacceptable performance of the basics, is the single worst AB selectorial decision I've ever seen. If he were 21 and full of potential I would struggle with it; in his mid 30s and having been in decline for several years it is actually absurd.
@Kruse said in England Vs All Blacks:
... is Pollock an absolute cock?
Well, there is certainly some assonance...
@Frank said in England Vs All Blacks:
Utterly bored of this dumb, badly coached side run by an insular group of insecure middle aged men who are scared to drop veterans, scared to try new things, and too stubborn to change their ways. Total bullshit. Tour is worst possible result. Razor stays and fuck all changes.
So you're recommending some DEI action then?
@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
Well he is a Saffa, what are you gonna do?
get decent mates?
I like to have a broad church of mates, the boerewors he cooks up when I stay with him balances things out somewhat.
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
I like to have a broad church of mates, the boerewors he cooks up when I stay with him balances things out somewhat.
Ah I see, you have strong nutritional principles...
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
Once Cam Roigard went off our kicking game was appalling. Without him, our kicking game is comfortably the worst of all the Tier One teams.
We must play players who can kick astutely and accurately at 9. We need to find better tactical kickers at 10. Our midfield needs to be coached how to kick.
Roigard's first half performance probably stopped England scoring 50 points against us. That is not far from the truth.
@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
Once Cam Roigard went off our kicking game was appalling. Without him, our kicking game is comfortably the worst of all the Tier One teams.
We must play players who can kick astutely and accurately at 9. We need to find better tactical kickers at 10. Our midfield needs to be coached how to kick.
Roigard's first half performance probably stopped England scoring 50 points against us. That is not far from the truth.
England's shit lineout is the only thing that stopped that.
I've heard that Henry Pollock and co. go without caffeine all week, then chew strong caffeine gum on the bench before coming on.
Giving how fizzing with energy they were yesterday, I wonder if that isn't a trick we should copy?
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
I've heard that Henry Pollock and co. go without caffeine all week, then chew strong caffeine gum on the bench before coming on.
Giving how fizzing with energy they were yesterday, I wonder if that isn't a trick we should copy?
Nothing new, George Gregan did so often, he bought a cafe or two!
I thought the Dingwall try was actually quite symbolic for some of the deeper-lying issues within this team. It shows that the players don’t trust each other and that the opposition is generally smarter than them.
It is honestly an embarrassingly easy score for England: Mitchell throws the long pass to Lawrence, taking out both Taylor and Lakai from the defensive picture. It leaves England and the ABs with a two-on-two: Lawrence and Dingwall against Carter and Tupaea.
There is really no reason for Tupaea to bite in here, unless he doesn’t trust Carter to make the tackle on Lawrence. And that takes us all the way back to the try in the first half, where Carter gets flattened by the English centre. Tupaea gets a flashback, wants to put in a double shot, and then it’s just easy hands at the line for Lawrence. Proctor is far back because he’s covering the English attackers hidden in the boot; he’s trusting his teammates to execute the defensive 2-on-2.
It's smart from England but it is painfully naïve from an AB perspective. Big, individual errors, like Leroy Carter’s in the first half, are a mental challenge for a team. If you’re a good side, you immediately put it behind you and start again. If you’re mentally fragile, it becomes like a domino-effect, influencing your every move and decision from that moment onwards.
After the England Test, I think it’s pretty clear what kind of team these ABs are.
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
I've heard that Henry Pollock and co. go without caffeine all week, then chew strong caffeine gum on the bench before coming on.
Giving how fizzing with energy they were yesterday, I wonder if that isn't a trick we should copy?
Pollock has a punchable face, I really fear hes going to become this generations Matt Dawson for me.
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@MN5 He could be playing for England and the British and Irish Lions for 15 more years..........
I'm grumpy enough without the likes of him triggering me
@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
I thought the Dingwall try was actually quite symbolic for some of the deeper-lying issues within this team. It shows that the players don’t trust each other and that the opposition is generally smarter than them.
It is honestly an embarrassingly easy score for England: Mitchell throws the long pass to Lawrence, taking out both Taylor and Lakai from the defensive picture. It leaves England and the ABs with a two-on-two: Lawrence and Dingwall against Carter and Tupaea.
There is really no reason for Tupaea to bite in here, unless he doesn’t trust Carter to make the tackle on Lawrence. And that takes us all the way back to the try in the first half, where Carter gets flattened by the English centre. Tupaea gets a flashback, wants to put in a double shot, and then it’s just easy hands at the line for Lawrence. Proctor is far back because he’s covering the English attackers hidden in the boot; he’s trusting his teammates to execute the defensive 2-on-2.
It's smart from England but it is painfully naïve from an AB perspective. Big, individual errors, like Leroy Carter’s in the first half, are a mental challenge for a team. If you’re a good side, you immediately put it behind you and start again. If you’re mentally fragile, it becomes like a domino-effect, influencing your every move and decision from that moment onwards.
After the England Test, I think it’s pretty clear what kind of team these ABs are.
This picture tells it all : both Carter and Tupaea are on their heels instead of being on their toes. AB's defense is so passive ...
@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
I thought the Dingwall try was actually quite symbolic for some of the deeper-lying issues within this team. It shows that the players don’t trust each other and that the opposition is generally smarter than them.
It is honestly an embarrassingly easy score for England: Mitchell throws the long pass to Lawrence, taking out both Taylor and Lakai from the defensive picture. It leaves England and the ABs with a two-on-two: Lawrence and Dingwall against Carter and Tupaea.
There is really no reason for Tupaea to bite in here, unless he doesn’t trust Carter to make the tackle on Lawrence. And that takes us all the way back to the try in the first half, where Carter gets flattened by the English centre. Tupaea gets a flashback, wants to put in a double shot, and then it’s just easy hands at the line for Lawrence. Proctor is far back because he’s covering the English attackers hidden in the boot; he’s trusting his teammates to execute the defensive 2-on-2.
It's smart from England but it is painfully naïve from an AB perspective. Big, individual errors, like Leroy Carter’s in the first half, are a mental challenge for a team. If you’re a good side, you immediately put it behind you and start again. If you’re mentally fragile, it becomes like a domino-effect, influencing your every move and decision from that moment onwards.
After the England Test, I think it’s pretty clear what kind of team these ABs are.
This picture tells it all : both Carter and Tupaea are on their heels instead of being on their toes. AB's defense is so passive ...
That's a good description of Carter's missed tackle in the first half too. His weight was back on his heels which is partly why he got bumped off so easily.
@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wonder if we can find a journalist in NZ rugby with enough insight and balls to say what a ton of the NZ rugby public are now saying, the Razor has to go
Instead we get phrases like concerning and underwhelming. It's almost as if they are scared
@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Nepia said in England Vs All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Tim Nope. That was 2012.
Nooo that must be some AI. That says the ABs had Jane and Nonu, Conrad and McCaw, Mealamu and Whitelock. And this was Hansen basically photocopying Henry’s playbook. I thought they were ruthless and calm and well coached.
Tuilagi and Barrit ripped us a new one that night.
TBF that was a one off extremely bad performance that is still talked about today because of how inept we were (especially at defending the overstayer). Whereas today's performance is not even the worst of this season.
Didnt most of our team have a dose of the shits?
Norovirus.
Yes but it comes out both ends. I have had it and it is debilitating
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
Knew the result, read the thread, then watched the game. Blimey. Never seen a more apathetic AB team. England dominated the entire game. Won nearly every contact, ABs constantly beaten in the tackle and at the breakdown. Wow. ABs don’t look fit enough - lazy off the ball, can’t remember ever saying that before.
12-0 down but still felt like we were the better side. Ben Earl was immense, Pepper was great. But it wasn’t about individuals, they won every aspect of the game, contact after contact.
As for England, they still don’t look great structure wise but bugger me they smashed the ABs all over the park.
You were so much more focussed and composed than we were. Well, that's not strictly true - you had focus and composure and we had none.
Itoje is a different player under Borthwick. Developing into a really. really good captain.
@Bovidae said in England Vs All Blacks:
There are no excuses for Robertson to continue starting BB from here on. Again, injury might end up being the best selector, so let's see DMac at 10 and Love at 15 against Wales.
DMac and Love will play against Wales - ranked 12th and behind Italy & Fiji - to give BB a break. And BB will have recovered by the start of next year.
Sadly.
@MN5 said in England Vs All Blacks:
Walrus emerges from his dungeon to write some shit. It's actually not bad by his standards.
Is it because he largely speaks the truth that England were the better selected, better coached team?