Razor's Firsts

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Razor's Firsts:

If you're prepared to do the work and add in this year's efforts, I found some stuff here yesterday: https://www.rugbyhistory.co.nz/historical-results

For example, by my calculations, and with a game to fix it to some extent, this year's average points difference per game is the worst since 1976, currently sitting at 4.59.

Asking Grok is not much work.

"Under Scott Robertson's 2025 campaign (12 Tests played as of November 21, 2025: 9 wins, 3 losses), the All Blacks' average net points difference per game (NZ score minus opponent score) currently sits at 4.58 (rounded to 4.59 in some calculations, depending on exact rounding). This accounts for all completed matches, including the three losses where the difference is negative.

Using the historical results from the provided link (https://www.rugbyhistory.co.nz/historical-results, which points to a PDF of All Blacks Test results from 1959–2024), I cross-checked the average net points difference for each year from 1976 to 2024. No year from 1977 to 2024 has an average of 4.59 or lower—1976 had an average of 3.67 across 6 Tests (2 wins, 4 losses), but every subsequent year averaged higher (e.g., 1977: 12.25; 2024: 10.71).

Therefore, yes, 2025's current average is the worst since 1976, though tomorrow's final Test vs. Wales could improve it slightly if the All Blacks win by a decent margin."

Unlikely to be maintained with after Wales result bar a complete disaster or a close win.

@Kirwan They’d only need to win by nine or more this weekend to be better than the worst year since professional rugby - 1998, an especially bad year results-wise. I might check back after the weekend and see whatever else sticks out in those stats.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Razor's Firsts:

@Kirwan They’d only need to win by nine or more this weekend to be better than the worst year since professional rugby - 1998, an especially bad year results-wise. I might check back after the weekend and see whatever else sticks out in those stats.

I have the chungus Grok, so any stats analysis you want just shout out.

@Kirwan said in Razor's Firsts:

Foster had his own thread for this (here), seems only fair to have one for the messiah.

Heaviest defeat in All Blacks history
Lost 43–10 to South Africa in Wellington (33-point margin). This is the largest margin of defeat ever for New Zealand in, surpassing previous highs like the 35-point loss to South Africa in 1921 or the 28-point loss to Australia in 2003.

First-ever loss to Argentina on Argentine soil
Lost 29–23 to Argentina in Buenos Aires. Prior to this, the All Blacks were unbeaten in 18 Tests in Argentina (dating back to 1985), with all previous losses to the Pumas occurring on New Zealand soil (e.g., 2022 and 2024 in Christchurch and Wellington).

First back-to-back losses to Argentina in All Blacks history
Following the 38–30 home loss to Argentina on August 10, 2024 (in Wellington), the 29–23 defeat in Buenos Aires on August 23, 2025, marked the first time New Zealand lost consecutive Tests to the Pumas.

Lowest win percentage after first 14 Tests for any All Blacks coach in the professional era
At the end of 2024 (14 Tests: 10 wins, 4 losses), Robertson's 71.4% win rate was the weakest start since 1996—worse than predecessors like Ian Foster (78.6%), Steve Hansen (92.9%), and Graham Henry (85.7%).

Most losses in the first 19 Tests for any All Blacks coach since the 1970s
As of mid-September 2025 (after the South Africa loss), Robertson had 6 losses—tied for the most in a coach's opening 19 games since Laurie Mains (1992–1995). This climbed to 7 after the England defeat, exceeding any coach's tally in that span during the professional era.

And just some Rugby Championship highlights;

First consecutive non-winning finishes in the Rugby Championship for the All Blacks
2024 (2nd) and 2025 (2nd), marking the first time New Zealand has failed to win the title in back-to-back years since the tournament began in 2012. All prior non-1st finishes (2015: 2nd; 2019: 3rd) were isolated

Lowest points tally in a single Rugby Championship campaign for the All Blacks
2024: 16 points, the worst ever. This undercuts the previous lows of 20 points (2015 and 2019).

Most losses in a single Rugby Championship campaign for the All Blacks
2024: 3 losses (to Argentina at home, and South Africa twice away), the highest ever in the tournament's history (since 2012). Previous highs were 2 losses (e.g., 2015, 2019).

This is what all the models do unfortunately.

@Kirwan said in Razor's Firsts:

Foster had his own thread for this (here), seems only fair to have one for the messiah.

Heaviest defeat in All Blacks history
Lost 43–10 to South Africa in Wellington (33-point margin). This is the largest margin of defeat ever for New Zealand in, surpassing previous highs like the 35-point loss to South Africa in 1921 or the 28-point loss to Australia in 2003.

First-ever loss to Argentina on Argentine soil
Lost 29–23 to Argentina in Buenos Aires. Prior to this, the All Blacks were unbeaten in 18 Tests in Argentina (dating back to 1985), with all previous losses to the Pumas occurring on New Zealand soil (e.g., 2022 and 2024 in Christchurch and Wellington).

First back-to-back losses to Argentina in All Blacks history
Following the 38–30 home loss to Argentina on August 10, 2024 (in Wellington), the 29–23 defeat in Buenos Aires on August 23, 2025, marked the first time New Zealand lost consecutive Tests to the Pumas.

Lowest win percentage after first 14 Tests for any All Blacks coach in the professional era
At the end of 2024 (14 Tests: 10 wins, 4 losses), Robertson's 71.4% win rate was the weakest start since 1996—worse than predecessors like Ian Foster (78.6%), Steve Hansen (92.9%), and Graham Henry (85.7%).

Most losses in the first 19 Tests for any All Blacks coach since the 1970s
As of mid-September 2025 (after the South Africa loss), Robertson had 6 losses—tied for the most in a coach's opening 19 games since Laurie Mains (1992–1995). This climbed to 7 after the England defeat, exceeding any coach's tally in that span during the professional era.

And just some Rugby Championship highlights;

First consecutive non-winning finishes in the Rugby Championship for the All Blacks
2024 (2nd) and 2025 (2nd), marking the first time New Zealand has failed to win the title in back-to-back years since the tournament began in 2012. All prior non-1st finishes (2015: 2nd; 2019: 3rd) were isolated

Lowest points tally in a single Rugby Championship campaign for the All Blacks
2024: 16 points, the worst ever. This undercuts the previous lows of 20 points (2015 and 2019).

Most losses in a single Rugby Championship campaign for the All Blacks
2024: 3 losses (to Argentina at home, and South Africa twice away), the highest ever in the tournament's history (since 2012). Previous highs were 2 losses (e.g., 2015, 2019).

Final first, first ABs coach to be fired mid-term?

@canefan Or First All Blacks coach to fail to get out of a World Cup pool?

@sparky said in Razor's Firsts:

@canefan Or First All Blacks coach to fail to get out of a World Cup pool?

Given there's an extra knockout round before the quarter finals at the next RWC first AB coach to not reach the quarter finals is on the cards.

@Kirwan said in Razor's Firsts:

First back-to-back losses to Argentina in All Blacks history
Following the 38–30 home loss to Argentina on August 10, 2024 (in Wellington), the 29–23 defeat in Buenos Aires on August 23, 2025, marked the first time New Zealand lost consecutive Tests to the Pumas.

I'm not sure this is correct

ABs won test match 1 vs Argies this year? Samisoni late maul tries?

@KiwiMurph said in Razor's Firsts:

@Kirwan said in Razor's Firsts:

First back-to-back losses to Argentina in All Blacks history
Following the 38–30 home loss to Argentina on August 10, 2024 (in Wellington), the 29–23 defeat in Buenos Aires on August 23, 2025, marked the first time New Zealand lost consecutive Tests to the Pumas.

I'm not sure this is correct

ABs won test match 1 vs Argies this year? Samisoni late maul tries?

That is correct. I think fern favourite Sevu Reece got a double that day too?

I don’t double check AI.

Just try not to think about all the software being written without checking as well

I would never trust AI for facts and stats. It'll constantly get things wrong but you never know what.

@Mr-Fish said in Razor's Firsts:

I would never trust AI for facts and stats. It'll constantly get things wrong but you never know what.

Tries to sound convincing but makes up stuff and confuses fact with fiction, memory with paranoia, and investigation with conspiracy? Then it is redundant. The Fern does that already!

@Kirwan said in Razor's Firsts:

First back-to-back losses to Argentina in All Blacks history
Following the 38–30 home loss to Argentina on August 10, 2024 (in Wellington), the 29–23 defeat in Buenos Aires on August 23, 2025, marked the first time New Zealand lost consecutive Tests to the Pumas.

Negative. WE beat them the weekend before on the 16th, so this one isn't correct.

The ones that are correct are bad enough to ignore the AI hallucinations.

Have to shake you head at LLMs at times.

we havent lost back to back against argentina

August 16th 2025 41-24 to the ABs

Good to see I’m not the only non thread reader before pointing out an issue …

Zero break dances though...

First coach from Sumner Rugby Club to become All Black Head Coach.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Razor's Firsts:

First coach from Sumner Rugby Club to become All Black Head Coach.

Good and moral rugby clubs in NZ:

Takapuna - my club

North Shore - Respected opponents.

Mahurangi - Where I live in NZ now, and great guys all round.

Ponsonby - Where my brother played U19s rugby and scored a few tries in the Auckland competition.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Razor's Firsts:

If you're prepared to do the work and add in this year's efforts, I found some stuff here yesterday: https://www.rugbyhistory.co.nz/historical-results

For example, by my calculations, and with a game to fix it to some extent, this year's average points difference per game is the worst since 1976, currently sitting at 4.59.

Following the Wales match, they’ve ended the year on +6.23, the worst since 1998.

@ShaquilleOatmeal That stat as a chart from 1996 to 2025.

That stat as a chart from 1996 to 2025.

1996: ████████████████ 15.6
1997: ██████████████████████████████ 30.9
1998: ██████ 6.2
1999: ████████████████████████ 24.3
2000: ███████████████████████ 23.6
2001: █████████████████ 17.2
2002: ██████████████████ 18.2
2003: █████████████████████████████ 28.2
2004: █████████████████ 17.0
2005: ███████████████████████ 23.6
2006: ████████████████ 15.9
2007: █████████████████████████████████████ 37.2
2008: ███████████████████ 19.2
2009: ███████ 7.4
2010: █████████████████ 17.8
2011: █████████████████████████ 25.5
2012: ███████████████████ 19.5
2013: ███████████████ 15.3
2014: ██████████████ 14.3
2015: ████████████████████ 20.9
2016: ████████████████████████ 24.4
2017: ██████████████████ 18.0
2018: █████████████████████ 21.0
2019: █████████████████████████ 25.6
2020: ██████████████ 14.0
2021: █████████████████████████████ 29.8
2022: ████████ 8.9
2023: ████████████████████████ 24.8
2024: ███████████ 11.5
2025: ██████ 6.2

@ShaquilleOatmeal so it's even worse than 98?

@Bones said in Razor's Firsts:

@ShaquilleOatmeal so it's even worse than 98?

Oops. Fixed it now.

And first All Blacks coach to be fired!