@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
Any of Savea’s supposed flaws are magnified by the lack of others in the loosies to complement / counter his skills.
Well if that's the case, Reece should probably have been in the running.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.
aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.
aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.
Interesting that he has decided that wants to be an assit at the hurricanes rather than the All Blacks and yes, it would be a reduction in salary. Go back to the organisation that he was the head cosch at before he left.
So his career has gone backwards and he still thinks its a better gig than the ABs.
There might be personal reasons for Holland to leave, but looking at this from the outside it doesnt look very good at all
Was it Holland's idea to leave? I don't see it as all that radical. If not, then it's a very happy medium to pay out his contract - if not, then it's hardly a bad place to be earning well above minimum wage until your next gig.
@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
Any of Savea’s supposed flaws are magnified by the lack of others in the loosies to complement / counter his skills.
He does come through in the big moments, e.g the turnover at the end of the Boks game at Eden Park.
And the big moments in the other Boks game?
@reprobate big moment for me was seeing him walk from the scrum in the 2nd test v SA and them scoring moments later, obviously single him out because he usually doesnt stop, but in this case, seeing him basically 'giving up' summed up the team for me.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.
aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.
Yeah, they're a basket case which should be disbanded and replaced by a fiscally responsible team based in Hawkes Bay.
But, setting that aside, I think he'll just be getting paid out of a broader NZR pool rather than just the Canes assigned pool of money for crappy coaches.
I don't think leaving the Canes in the hands of a bunch of coke heads is a good idea.
If anyone's going to sort the Canes out, Malcolm Gillies is the man for the job. I see that he's also the Chair on the board so he'll be making plenty of changes.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
Was it Holland's idea to leave?
Holland only had a 2-yr contract, and it was his decision to leave.
As far as the Hurricanes goes, I believe that NZR pays for the salary of the head coach and a set number of assistant coaches. If you want additional assistant/skills coaches that is covered by the SR club.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.
aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.
Yeah, they're a basket case which should be disbanded and replaced by a fiscally responsible team based in Hawkes Bay.
But, setting that aside, I think he'll just be getting paid out of a broader NZR pool rather than just the Canes assigned pool of money for crappy coaches.
I don't think leaving the Canes in the hands of a bunch of coke heads is a good idea.
If anyone's going to sort the Canes out, Malcolm Gillies is the man for the job. I see that he's also the Chair on the board so he'll be making plenty of changes.
Something something stones and glass houses.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
that's fucking hilarious. who voted for that? Facebook?
Fuck me dead.
I owe later day Sam Cane an apology too, because he was way more visible on the field than the current iteration of Ardie, who it seems, is way more visible off the field between matches.
Cane and McCaw put way more into that 7 shirt than what im seeing from our "Mana-facturer".
@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:
Im sick of this shit.
Me too.
They didn't even mention Scotsman Blair Kinghorn.
@game_film I often wonder if he actually played for longer periods as a seven that there would so many big moments needed to save a game.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:
Im sick of this shit.
Me too.
They didn't even mention Scotsman Blair Kinghorn.
Scotland is Englands biggest housing estate.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
It would be interesting to get some inside oil on Evans opinion on the current and potential 10s. I've enjoyed what I've read of his comments, unsure on what his social skills and emotional intelligence are like.
Interesting in the All Blacks 15 match he was full of praise for Etene Nanai-Seturo and chose him as man of the match. Hope this means Etene Nanai-Seturo will hang around rather than thinking he has no chance.
Ardie and Beauden are interesting in that there is a real disconnect between the general public and those that really watch rugby. I don't think I've really seen that before to this extent. Both are freakish athletes who can pull off insane acts on the field, so their highlight reels are amazing, but they hard to pin down as rugby players as they don't really naturally fit into any position.
Ardie is way better suited to 8 as it gives him more freedom to roam, which is why previous AB coaches preferred him there, especially if you pair him with someone like Cane or Dalton at 7 to do the grunt work. Moving him to 7 this season is just another absurd decision in a long list of absurd decisions from these coaches. He would also likely be a real weapon off the bench.
I actually think Beauden is best suited to the 23 jumper at this stage of his career, and that's where some of his most influential performances have come from. Though he has dominated games from 10 in his heyday, it wasn't through traditional 10 play, it was through pulling off freakish acts scoring and/or setting up a bucket of tries. If not on the bench, then he's much better at 15 where he has more space and his weaknesses are not nearly as apparent.
Playing Ardie at 7 and Beauden at 10 all season were probably the two most critical selection errors the coaches made. It meant that we had an unbalanced loose trio, so we mostly lost the battle of the breakdown, putting us on the back foot. Then we paired that with a 10 that has relied on his pace in the past, so doesn't do well with limited space on the back foot. An obvious recipe for disaster that were persisted with all year.
Oh and on those awards, it should have gone to Jordie who was by far our most consistent AB this season. But he wasn't even short listed? Tupea on the back of a single match against the bloody Wallabies? LOL to that as well. TBF though it was bloody slim pickings this year, and giving it to Ardie will keep his followers on social media happy.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate big moment for me was seeing him walk from the scrum in the 2nd test v SA and them scoring moments later, obviously single him out because he usually doesnt stop, but in this case, seeing him basically 'giving up' summed up the team for me.
Probably suffered from being overplayed too
@No-Quarter i think how Ardie plays, he will unbalance most trios he is part of at international level.
Phenomenal athlete, huge ticker, has been an awesome player for us over the years, but for me, we need him to play a different game, or as many have said for several years, we need to have a 6 and 7 (or 8 depending where you start him) that compliment him, whether he is still good enough to dictate that we pick 2 loosies to suit his game, who knows.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@No-Quarter i think how Ardie plays, he will unbalance most trios he is part of at international level.
Phenomenal athlete, huge ticker, has been an awesome player for us over the years, but for me, we need him to play a different game, or as many have said for several years, we need to have a 6 and 7 (or 8 depending where you start him) that compliment him, whether he is still good enough to dictate that we pick 2 loosies to suit his game, who knows.
Yeah, this is where I sit. He does amazing things. But, he very much does not do some things.
If you set him in stone (it doesn't matter which position), that sets the requirements for the other two loosies - and if we don't have 2 players who can between them do all of those tasks at a world class level, the group will never work.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
huge ticker
As determined by all the work he's doing? Or the hard shoulder he puts on people?
It's no secret I've never been his biggest fan, but I have given credit when it's been due. For me unless you have a Cane type player in the loose trio you can't afford to have Ardie starting.
@reprobate He was good in the warm up
@taniwharugby couldn't agree more. In my mind the most balanceed trio we could have would be Scooter at Six. Papalii or Jacobson at Seven, Ardie at Eight with Sititi on the Bench. But would be interested in your thoughts.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
huge ticker
As determined by all the work he's doing? Or the hard shoulder he puts on people?
It's no secret I've never been his biggest fan, but I have given credit when it's been due. For me unless you have a Cane type player in the loose trio you can't afford to have Ardie starting.
Agreed. Sam Cane was an absolute warrior. I don't go with much of the Ardie criticism, but a warrior he ain't. Probbly best off the bench with the current set-up.
@antipodean his work rate and energy with the work he did (super this year and most of his international career prior to this year) ticker probably not the right way to define him.
He is hugely talented, but certainly not getting the best use out of him, especially with who we put alongside him
The Herald understands feedback from players and staff presents a deeply concerning picture of the All Blacks environment, with multiple sources pointing to widespread internal frustrations.
Two assistant coaches, Leon MacDonald and Jason Holland, voluntarily departing in the last two years sparked red-flag concerns with how the All Blacks are being run. But the fresh, stinging feedback from within – with communication, trust, strategy and selection all believed to have been raised – cannot be ignored.
All teams have unhappy players with selection, but concerns with the All Blacks environment are believed to spread well beyond individuals alone.
Support from senior players proved powerful in Ian Foster retaining his position as All Blacks head coach in 2022 – as the players approached then NZ Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson in his Johannesburg hotel room to strongly voice their views.
This time around, the opposite could be true.
At this stage, NZ Rugby is likely to allow Robertson further time to deliver significant improvements but if the players aren’t satisfied with the initial post-season All Blacks review findings and solutions – which could range from changes in coaching personnel to roles and responsibilities – they may request a second review is conducted.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2026:
The Herald understands feedback from players and staff presents a deeply concerning picture of the All Blacks environment, with multiple sources pointing to widespread internal frustrations.
Two assistant coaches, Leon MacDonald and Jason Holland, voluntarily departing in the last two years sparked red-flag concerns with how the All Blacks are being run. But the fresh, stinging feedback from within – with communication, trust, strategy and selection all believed to have been raised – cannot be ignored.
All teams have unhappy players with selection, but concerns with the All Blacks environment are believed to spread well beyond individuals alone.
Support from senior players proved powerful in Ian Foster retaining his position as All Blacks head coach in 2022 – as the players approached then NZ Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson in his Johannesburg hotel room to strongly voice their views.
This time around, the opposite could be true.
At this stage, NZ Rugby is likely to allow Robertson further time to deliver significant improvements but if the players aren’t satisfied with the initial post-season All Blacks review findings and solutions – which could range from changes in coaching personnel to roles and responsibilities – they may request a second review is conducted.
Sounds like the players aren't holding back, which is good. But if they allow him further time to improve I guess the NZRU aren't that interested in RWC27....
Lendrum is going to busy with damage control if more of these stories (and the rumours) come out.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
But senior players not being up to it is half the problem with selection. If they are just complaining that their spots maybe under jeopardy next season then that is going to be worse for the team.
I don't think the senior players such as Ardie and BB have much to complain about because they got picked for every match that they were fit to play in!
@Tim said in All Blacks 2026:
But the fresh, stinging feedback from within – with communication, trust, strategy and selection all believed to have been raised – cannot be ignored.
If true, that's a damning indictment of Scott Robertson - or any head coach. Sounds like he has lost the dressing room. Schmidt in a Director of Rugby role supervising things would be good but would Coach Jesus accept that or would he walk?
What a fucking mess.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
If they are just complaining that their spots maybe under jeopardy next season then that is going to be worse for the team
If they simply wanted to keep their spots, they wouldn't be complaining about poor communications and trust issues though. The last thing they would do would be to rock the boat and get in Robertson's and Head Coach Hansen's bad books.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@No-Quarter i think how Ardie plays, he will unbalance most trios he is part of at international level.
Phenomenal athlete, huge ticker, has been an awesome player for us over the years, but for me, we need him to play a different game, or as many have said for several years, we need to have a 6 and 7 (or 8 depending where you start him) that compliment him, whether he is still good enough to dictate that we pick 2 loosies to suit his game, who knows.
Yeah, this is where I sit. He does amazing things. But, he very much does not do some things.
If you set him in stone (it doesn't matter which position), that sets the requirements for the other two loosies - and if we don't have 2 players who can between them do all of those tasks at a world class level, the group will never work.
Great harmonies too as seen on tiktok
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
If they are just complaining that their spots maybe under jeopardy next season then that is going to be worse for the team
If they simply wanted to keep their spots, they wouldn't be complaining about poor communications and trust issues though. The last thing they would do would be to rock the boat and get in Robertson's and Head Coach Hansen's bad books.
I can't see how this improves trust unless they bin the coaches
@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
that's fucking hilarious. who voted for that? Facebook?
Fuck me dead.
I owe later day Sam Cane an apology too, because he was way more visible on the field than the current iteration of Ardie, who it seems, is way more visible off the field between matches.
Cane and McCaw put way more into that 7 shirt than what im seeing from our "Mana-facturer".
Yes agreed, i was against him playing last year but he proved me wrong and he brought an hard nosed AB attitude to his game and the team. I have heard that he was a leader that always asked the hard questions, challenged players made them accountable. We need some of that leadership now because we seem very un all black like in mental fortitude.
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
If they are just complaining that their spots maybe under jeopardy next season then that is going to be worse for the team
If they simply wanted to keep their spots, they wouldn't be complaining about poor communications and trust issues though. The last thing they would do would be to rock the boat and get in Robertson's and Head Coach Hansen's bad books.
I can't see how this improves trust unless they bin the coaches
Exactly. Senior players talking about trust issues with the coach would be terminal for their selection prospects
So who are the senior players. To be honest it is pretty easy to identify as there are not that many in the team at the moment. Can't imagine they call Sotutu a senior player for example.
The same group loved Foster for his great communication and trusting relationship and what did that get the team? pretty similar shit performances arguably worse.
To be honest I see the 'senior players' opinions as a bit of a red herring. The issue this team has is with selection of past it players who seem not to be able to be dropped and execution of basic skills like passing accurately, kicking accurately and catching high balls.
Whether the selection issue has to do with NZR contracting I am not sure but the selection of BB and Damien Mackenzie in the 10 position exclusively for the last 2 seasons has been ridiculous with a lack of eye to developing a young player with potential. Someone made a very salient point the other day if 20 year old Dan Carter was to have emerged 4 years ago he would probably be ignored by the selectors and now at age 24 would be looking at overseas offers.
I love Richie McCaw he is the GOAT but his comments recently about 'All Blacks should be ready too perform not developing' are not really helpful and have been taken on board too literally by Scott Robertson and his selectors.
They are a bit ironic also given Josh Kronfeld said similar about the GOATS intial selection
and he was given the Captaincy without being completely ready for it only developing into one of our greatest captains after the trauma of 2007.
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
If they are just complaining that their spots maybe under jeopardy next season then that is going to be worse for the team
If they simply wanted to keep their spots, they wouldn't be complaining about poor communications and trust issues though. The last thing they would do would be to rock the boat and get in Robertson's and Head Coach Hansen's bad books.
I can't see how this improves trust unless they bin the coaches
When did NZ Rugby (at a Macro level) get so conservative?
I thought this was one of the best sporting institutions in the world.
Liverpool are on the verge of sacking Arne Slot...he won the league in June.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.
To quote Steve Hansen "flush the Dunny and move on".
Sack Razor and co and hire new people. We owe them nothing. He wasnt even a great Allblack himself.
There used to be books written about the Allblacks.....the current mob are a rabble, who are masturbating to their own instagram persona's.
There should be no charity to players and coaches alike...When you are no longer a net positive to the Silverfern.....sling your hook.
Its either a high performance unit or it isnt.....