All Blacks 2026

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

The thing is, I think the people that hired him knew exactly what they were getting.

A marketing man's dream?

The problem I have with this argument is that he's absolutely not. He's barely coherent in an interview.

Does bloody great PowerPoint presentations though, apparently.

It's pretty obvious why he'd be picked: absolutely excellent Super rugby coaching results. I don't think it is valid to say that marketing had become more important than results to NZR and that's why he got the job - he had the bloody results, that was literally the strongest argument in his favour.

It's the powerpoint presentations which should have countered that - and that's on the people doing the hiring. Every time he opens his mouth seems like a red flag to me.

Nah. The people who hired him wanted someone who looked like a winner at international level - plus he was fresh and "different". They knew he was untested at international level but that was an inconvenience to be ignored.

There simply are not going to be candidates who are tested and a proven success at tier one international level on any sort of regular basis.

Tony Brown, Jamie Joseph, Joe Schmidt and Dave Rennie say "Hi"

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of Robertson's appointment:
Brown had not been an international head coach (and still hasn't).
Joseph had coached tier 2 Japan.
Joe Schmidt had not been an international head coach.
Dave Rennie had just been sacked from the Wallabies - after he had been passed over for Foster, who had also not been an international head coach.

as @Tim noted, Ireland are technically an international team.
But can I add Gatland (3 6N titles) ? John Kirwan was also an ex-international head coach. And Robbie Deans. And John Mitchell. Maybe we missed a bullet.
There was also Kieran Crowley (who wanted to continue to coach Italy, not sure what happened there or what he is doing now). You can say Italy (don't add Ireland) were tier 2 but Crowley's team had recently beaten Australia (end of 2022 I think).

@Tim said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Joe Schmidt had not been an international head coach.

Long time head coach of Ireland.

hahaha ah yep.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

The thing is, I think the people that hired him knew exactly what they were getting.

A marketing man's dream?

The problem I have with this argument is that he's absolutely not. He's barely coherent in an interview.

Does bloody great PowerPoint presentations though, apparently.

It's pretty obvious why he'd be picked: absolutely excellent Super rugby coaching results. I don't think it is valid to say that marketing had become more important than results to NZR and that's why he got the job - he had the bloody results, that was literally the strongest argument in his favour.

It's the powerpoint presentations which should have countered that - and that's on the people doing the hiring. Every time he opens his mouth seems like a red flag to me.

Nah. The people who hired him wanted someone who looked like a winner at international level - plus he was fresh and "different". They knew he was untested at international level but that was an inconvenience to be ignored.

There simply are not going to be candidates who are tested and a proven success at tier one international level on any sort of regular basis.

Tony Brown, Jamie Joseph, Joe Schmidt and Dave Rennie say "Hi"

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of Robertson's appointment:
Brown had not been an international head coach (and still hasn't).
Joseph had coached tier 2 Japan.
Joe Schmidt had not been an international head coach.
Dave Rennie had just been sacked from the Wallabies - after he had been passed over for Foster, who had also not been an international head coach.

as @Tim noted, Ireland are technically an international team.
But can I add Gatland (3 6N titles) ? John Kirwan was also an ex-international head coach. And Robbie Deans. And John Mitchell. Maybe we missed a bullet.

So, aside from bullets dodged - Schmidt then - who probably didn't want the job?
Point remains, we can't expect to have a range of first rate internationally tier 1 experienced head coach candidates available when we want them. It's just not realistic.

@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:

Ardie sin-binned for dissent in his first match back in Japan. Make him captain right now and don’t think twice!!

The messiah's team lost 46-0 to Deans' Wild Knights.

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

Speaking of placating the hordes, normally the ABs losing enrages the hordes. But it might be a sign of how far we've sunk that average fans seem accepting of it all

Looking at social media comments, I’m convinced most people either don’t notice the team’s lost or just don’t watch the games. The sycophantic nature of the comments and ignorance of the overall performance is crazy.

We have to accept the opposition has improved seems to be a common one now ,

I don’t remember seeing that much when foster was coaching , they wanted his head .

Following the game against Wales, I saw a comment from someone pointing out that letting Wales score 26 points wasn't all that flash. There were countless replies claiming that was absolutely fine because Wales are a tier 1 team.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

The thing is, I think the people that hired him knew exactly what they were getting.

A marketing man's dream?

The problem I have with this argument is that he's absolutely not. He's barely coherent in an interview.

Does bloody great PowerPoint presentations though, apparently.

It's pretty obvious why he'd be picked: absolutely excellent Super rugby coaching results. I don't think it is valid to say that marketing had become more important than results to NZR and that's why he got the job - he had the bloody results, that was literally the strongest argument in his favour.

It's the powerpoint presentations which should have countered that - and that's on the people doing the hiring. Every time he opens his mouth seems like a red flag to me.

Nah. The people who hired him wanted someone who looked like a winner at international level - plus he was fresh and "different". They knew he was untested at international level but that was an inconvenience to be ignored.

There simply are not going to be candidates who are tested and a proven success at tier one international level on any sort of regular basis.

Tony Brown, Jamie Joseph, Joe Schmidt and Dave Rennie say "Hi"

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of Robertson's appointment:
Brown had not been an international head coach (and still hasn't).
Joseph had coached tier 2 Japan.
Joe Schmidt had not been an international head coach.
Dave Rennie had just been sacked from the Wallabies - after he had been passed over for Foster, who had also not been an international head coach.

as @Tim noted, Ireland are technically an international team.
But can I add Gatland (3 6N titles) ? John Kirwan was also an ex-international head coach. And Robbie Deans. And John Mitchell. Maybe we missed a bullet.

So, aside from bullets dodged - Schmidt then - who probably didn't want the job?
Point remains, we can't expect to have a range of first rate internationally tier 1 experienced head coach candidates available when we want them. It's just not realistic.

I agree with your overall point. The only exception I can think of would be Wayne Smith, and that was obviously not going to happen. We don't have the (coaching) cattle. It does lead me to wonder if there will be pressure to allow non NZ AB coaches in the future - like many other countries.

Speaking of All Blacks, Richie Mo'unga is preparing well for the ABs, his Toshiba Brave Lupus team went down by 46 points, unanswered.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

It does lead me to wonder if there will be pressure to allow non NZ AB coaches in the future

is there actually something in place for that (like the players eligibility) I just assumed it was that up until now, the best coaches were usually Kiwis, so coaches from other nationalities were never considered.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

Speaking of All Blacks, Richie Mo'unga is preparing well for the ABs, his Toshiba Brave Lupus team went down by 46 points, unanswered.

How many current Springboks are in that team?

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

he shouldn't have been considered for the HC job unless that's exactly what Robinson expected of him

They knew exactly what they were getting; and I wouldn't particularly point at Robinson, there were others involved.
(Not the Board; they leave the rugby decisions to the "experts;" their focus is commercial, of course.)

Interesting to look at the opposition; SA hasn't gone the cultural/whisperer route; their HC is actually a bit of a DH; great results tho.
Not saying we have to go the DH HC direction; somewhere in between would be about right, and has been in the past.

Looking forward, I'd say the pool of NZ coaches with OE is going to get smaller.
Being the rugby bench-mark meant the demand was high for everything NZ rugby; with less success, that demand will start to drop-off.
Which does bring up the spector of a non-enzeder in the role.

@reprobate

I dont think being an international HC is an important requirement for being the AB HC.
But when the next AB HC is appointed; having experience with an overseas coaching system, should be an essential part of the resume.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2026:

The ridiculous love for Ardie is unreal.

Haha
The 21st century interweb "slurp up"!
Have to be careful tho; it can turn to a nasty "pile-on" real quick.

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate

I dont think being an international HC is an important requirement for being the AB HC.
But when the next AB HC is appointed; having experience with an overseas coaching system, should be an essential part of the resume.

Rassie had NH club experience, not test nation HC experience didn't he? The other part of a structure like that is not picking a toxic guy like Hansen appears to be

@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2026:

We have to accept the opposition has improved seems to be a common one now ,

The opposition have improved, but they have also "figured us out" as well.
It took them over decade to do that tho.
During that run I always maintained that it was the way we played that the other teams couldn't cope with.
Sure, we had good players, but it was the style of play that had them fucked.
Most of the time we probably had them beat before they were even on the field.
Not like that now; the way we are going at the mo; the serious teams will not be intimidated in the slightest.
Licking their lips!

The inability of Hansen/Foster/Robertson to change the old formula and come up with a counter is the problem now.

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

the way we are going at the mo;

hopefully the way we go with the 'Mo is better. But I am not confident anything will change.

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

Speaking of All Blacks, Richie Mo'unga is preparing well for the ABs, his Toshiba Brave Lupus team went down by 46 points, unanswered.

How many current Springboks are in that team?

not enough! I only know of one South African in that team, Stephanus Du Toit and I don't think he is the famous one (he's a fullback), nor an international (?) but he may be related to the famous one.
But on the winning side, Saitama Wild Knights, one Lachlan Boshier scored a try. And they have Damian de Allende.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2026:

@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:

Ardie sin-binned for dissent in his first match back in Japan. Make him captain right now and don’t think twice!!

The messiah's team lost 46-0 to Deans' Wild Knights.

No doubt he looked devastated on Insta

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2026:

@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:

Ardie sin-binned for dissent in his first match back in Japan. Make him captain right now and don’t think twice!!

The messiah's team lost 46-0 to Deans' Wild Knights.

No doubt he looked devastated on Insta

He's such an inspirational player and human being. He gives his all for the team week in, week out, never backs down, leaves it all on the field, puts in the hard yards, empties the tank, battles to the end and never gives up. He has the heart of a lion. There's no quit in him. You can tell how much he cares.

Obviously it wasn't clear but I was referring to Mo'unga.

Savea's team also lost a close game. Akira Ieremia got a red card for the winners.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

The thing is, I think the people that hired him knew exactly what they were getting.

A marketing man's dream?

The problem I have with this argument is that he's absolutely not. He's barely coherent in an interview.

Does bloody great PowerPoint presentations though, apparently.

It's pretty obvious why he'd be picked: absolutely excellent Super rugby coaching results. I don't think it is valid to say that marketing had become more important than results to NZR and that's why he got the job - he had the bloody results, that was literally the strongest argument in his favour.

It's the powerpoint presentations which should have countered that - and that's on the people doing the hiring. Every time he opens his mouth seems like a red flag to me.

Nah. The people who hired him wanted someone who looked like a winner at international level - plus he was fresh and "different". They knew he was untested at international level but that was an inconvenience to be ignored.

There simply are not going to be candidates who are tested and a proven success at tier one international level on any sort of regular basis.

Tony Brown, Jamie Joseph, Joe Schmidt and Dave Rennie say "Hi"

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of Robertson's appointment:
Brown had not been an international head coach (and still hasn't).
Joseph had coached tier 2 Japan.
Joe Schmidt had not been an international head coach.
Dave Rennie had just been sacked from the Wallabies - after he had been passed over for Foster, who had also not been an international head coach.

I think you're missing my point. Robertson was clearly seen by many in NZR as their poster-boy from the time he applied for the job in '19. They should have taken a cold, hard look at other candidates to replace Foster.

There were plenty of people available with Test experience had NZR taken the time to manage that talent pool. Instead, they seem to have pissed them off.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2026:

Obviously it wasn't clear but I was referring to Mo'unga.

Savea's team also lost a close game. Akira Ieremia got a red card for the winners.

Had a customary missed touch from a penalty too.
These games are so far away from top level, it is almost hard to watch.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Point remains, we can't expect to have a It's just not realistic.

No-one is expecting NZR to have range of first rate internationally tier 1 experienced head coach candidates available when we want them.

But the point remains that NZR chose a bloke with no experience of Test rugby whatsoever. rather than court other candidates.

This might not be the right thread, as many of the points may be more related to Super rugby and alignment in the domestic game, but interesting interview with Pat Lam on Devlin. He talked about how much time he gets with their players (like 30 games) and how they know that unless a player is with their international side, they have them there with them - he contrasted that with NZ and the piecemeal approach that you get as a Super rugby coach. Quite damning when you look at our organization in comparison to what they are doing up North.

@Victor-Meldrew

Also it's not just the top job (culture coach), I'm astounded that NZR got into a situation where the 3 selectors are all from the same franchise. In previous appointments there was an effort to have a variety of backgrounds. It's unthinkable that Henry could've had two Blues selectors with him etc

One of the reasons that the cartel succeeded was because they challenged each other and Henry didn't win every argument

@Duluth said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew

Also it's not just the top job (culture coach), I'm astounded that NZR got into a situation where the 3 selectors are all from the same franchise. In previous appointments there would be an effort to have a variety of backgrounds. It's unthinkable that Henry could've had two Blues selectors with him etc

One of the reasons that cartel succeeded was that they challenged each other and Henry didn't win every argument

Good point. And it's interesting that the 2 Assistants who have left were non-Cantabs, I'd still have Ryan there though, done a pretty good job/

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@Duluth said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew

Also it's not just the top job (culture coach), I'm astounded that NZR got into a situation where the 3 selectors are all from the same franchise. In previous appointments there would be an effort to have a variety of backgrounds. It's unthinkable that Henry could've had two Blues selectors with him etc

One of the reasons that cartel succeeded was that they challenged each other and Henry didn't win every argument

Good point. And it's interesting that the 2 Assistants who have left were non-Cantabs, I'd still have Ryan there though, done a pretty good job/

But arguably is the worst for provincial bias, going by the rumors about his thoughts on Sotutu and (unconfirmed) Akira.

Edit: Seems confirmed, thanks @African-Monkey

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@Duluth said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew

Also it's not just the top job (culture coach), I'm astounded that NZR got into a situation where the 3 selectors are all from the same franchise. In previous appointments there would be an effort to have a variety of backgrounds. It's unthinkable that Henry could've had two Blues selectors with him etc

One of the reasons that cartel succeeded was that they challenged each other and Henry didn't win every argument

Good point. And it's interesting that the 2 Assistants who have left were non-Cantabs, I'd still have Ryan there though, done a pretty good job/

But arguably is the worst for provincial bias, going by the rumors about his thoughts on Sotutu and (unconfirmed) Akira.

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

Laughed at Akira, circa 2018? Professional coaches did that?

Pat Lam actually touched on a lot of what’s being debated in this thread — not just results, but the system underneath the All Blacks. He was pretty blunt about NZ not being the benchmark anymore and said that’s actually an advantage if NZ Rugby is honest about it and makes the right decisions around development, Super Rugby, and funding.

What I found interesting is that he wasn’t having a go at Razor or the players at all — more the structures, the crowds dropping, and whether NPC/Super Rugby are still doing the job they used to.

I wrote up a piece pulling together his main points if anyone’s interested:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

Laughed at Akira, circa 2018? Professional coaches did that?

According to him, yes.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

Laughed at Akira, circa 2018? Professional coaches did that?

According to him, yes.

I'm a little bit shocked!

@giorgi1997

Welcome aboard.

It was interesting interview, and he brought up many interesting points, including that he hardly knew Robbie Deans when he was asked to coach with him on the AB ticket. His story on that really showed how stupid it has been to make coaches find a team - often independent from others - of what the whole team would look like. He's right that they should hire the head coach, who then gets to help select the right and best assistants.

On many other points, I think he makes good points - falling interest from the public etc, but his solution (a Giteau rule to free up more money) was rightly questioned by Devlin - taking more stars out of the NZ game isn't going to get punters to the games.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

Laughed at Akira, circa 2018? Professional coaches did that?

According to him, yes.

Him being chchfanatic or Akira?
The Cantab mafia have been a bit quiet lately. I really enjoyed ChCh sauce as he clearly knows much and was happy to share. It would be fascinating to hear what is being said there at the moment.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@chchfanatic (wherever he is now) can confirm for us that they hated Akira. He was at a bbq with them and Akira's name got bought up and they all laughed at him circa 2018.

Laughed at Akira, circa 2018? Professional coaches did that?

According to him, yes.

Him being chchfanatic or Akira?
The Cantab mafia have been a bit quiet lately. I really enjoyed ChCh sauce as he clearly knows much and was happy to share. It would be fascinating to hear what is being said there at the moment.

Him being chchfanatic.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

Professional coaches did that?

Clearly not professional. Pity NZR are only just finding out, eh?

@giorgi1997 said in All Blacks 2026:

and whether NPC/Super Rugby are still doing the job they used to.

Well. Lam pretty much lining up with my thoughts, and this thread really.
It's kinda starting to become obvious to all the astute.

As for NPC and SR, i've pretty much written them off as top level competitions.
I still like them, but they are not top class, and probably never will be going forward.
They are just for AB talent spotting now.
The preparation for Test rugby can not be done in those comps.
Instead of sending veteran ABs overseas on sabbatical/loan deals; maybe they should be sending the development players.

The NZ rugby public are a little bit aware.
They realise that the star players are not playing in the NPC.
Taking the star players out of any sporting comp, is going to fuck it real quick.
NZR dont hesitate to take star players out of SR as well.

And it's not just the star players either.
A while ago I counted about 500 NZ origin players; in pro leagues around the world.
Add to that nearly 200 NZ born players in the NRL.
In the past (amateurs) all those players were in NZ, pressing for places in provincial teams.
So you can see why you'd get crowds of tens of thousands at big inter-provincial games.
The GP can be stupid, but they can recognise an inferior product sometimes.

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate

I dont think being an international HC is an important requirement for being the AB HC.
But when the next AB HC is appointed; having experience with an overseas coaching system, should be an essential part of the resume.

But surely there is a bit of a change in focus for international vs club?
Club you get the guys for a full, uninterrupted season. Can train them exactly how you want, get them in camps early and build the team environment. Club pathways have fed you players familiar with the club style, you might pick up a signing or two but overall your tools are in front of you and you do the best with what you have. Your opponents are a fairly known quantity too so you can plan accordingly

Whereas international, you are not only identifying talent, you are basically starting with a blank canvas (obviously with some incumbents). You have them for a shorter time, guys might be in form (or not), you are trying to research other international teams that dont play week in week out. Build new relationships and timetables with these guys, drop vets and start rookies. Seems like a lot more to think about than a club side.

At least being familiar with this dynamic as a player or coach is surely a pretty valuable item on a resume

@DurryMexted That's the thing. There are people saying 'international experience is crucial'. But do they mean:
Coaching an overseas club, or a national team? Does that team have to be successful?
If a national team, does it have to be tier 1? If a club team, which comps count?
Does it have to be as a head coach, or is being an assistant in those environments enough?
What about playing in those environments, does that count?

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@DurryMexted That's the thing. There are people saying 'international experience is crucial'. But do they mean:
Coaching an overseas club, or a national team? Does that team have to be successful?
If a national team, does it have to be tier 1? If a club team, which comps count?
Does it have to be as a head coach, or is being an assistant in those environments enough?
What about playing in those environments, does that count?

Yeah i see what you mean. Be interesting to know how these coaches themselves actually upskill themselves. No doubt theres endless research into high performance coaching and environments.

Thinking of it from that perspective, you would probably look at places like the french clubs as having the most resource and advanced systems. You wouldnt be looking at say the fijian coaching crew and think, these guys are clued up in the modern coaching practices, despite recent success. Point taken