All Blacks 2026

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

We'd become the equivalent of Brazillian football. Up and coming stars leaving early, with NPC level players becoming super rugby regulars mixed with washed up former ABs who can't get a decent contract overseas.

I was going to cite the exact same idea, but we'd be Brazil without the local population, so even worse as our domestic comp would likely struggle to even stay afloat.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Being in Sydney, my live attendances comes down to whether the Chiefs/Blues/Highlanders get a game in Sydney. Maybe the Canes if my mates want to go to it but then I'm left cheering for the reffing team.

SFS is a good stadium to watch games in, same with Commbank, but the combo of prices for AB tickets and especially the dog that is Homebush stadium has seen me choose not to go to test matches which would have been unthinkable in the past.

I always try to get to a match in NZ when I'm on trips home, especially the Magpies.

I should add that I don't think the issue is the quality of the product.

Super rugby this year was great, and the teams were all pretty fun to watch - and the Landers will likely be the team to really watch moving forward.

So, the issue is likely a combination of cost, population, transport etc etc. You can avoid all that by getting F&C and enjoying at home.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Being in Sydney, my live attendances comes down to whether the Chiefs/Blues/Highlanders get a game in Sydney. Maybe the Canes if my mates want to go to it but then I'm left cheering for the reffing team.

SFS is a good stadium to watch games in, same with Commbank, but the combo of prices for AB tickets and especially the dog that is Homebush stadium has seen me choose not to go to test matches which would have been unthinkable in the past.

I always try to get to a match in NZ when I'm on trips home, especially the Magpies.

I should add that I don't think the issue is the quality of the product.

Super rugby this year was great, and the teams were all pretty fun to watch - and the Landers will likely be the team to really watch moving forward.

So, the issue is likely a combination of cost, population, transport etc etc. You can avoid all that by getting F&C and enjoying at home.

I agree, anyone who was death riding rugby (at Super and NPC level) this year just wasn't watching.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Going to rugby has always been thus mate. In fact it used to be you couldn't buy a beer there anyway. But I genuinely think if people don't go to rugby because of shitty beer, they were never going for rugby anyway. Probably same for food, my only concern would be price for people in family groups, but the same in any sport or where there temporary food stalls. I (and mrs) usually have something to eat before a game, and same with having a beer etc.Geez and I drive always an hour for NPC games, never under 2 hrs for a super game and about 3.5 hours for tests.
It's ok to say I don't want to get off couch, got a brother in law who says exactly that, why go out when I can watch it from couch.
I go to games because I love the game, think it deserves my support, and above all else can actually see more.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Going to rugby has always been thus mate. In fact it used to be you couldn't buy a beer there anyway. But I genuinely think if people don't go to rugby because of shitty beer, they were never going for rugby anyway. Probably same for food, my only concern would be price for people in family groups, but the same in any sport or where there temporary food stalls. I (and mrs) usually have something to eat before a game, and same with having a beer etc.Geez and I drive always an hour for NPC games, never under 2 hrs for a super game and about 3.5 hours for tests.
It's ok to say I don't want to get off couch, got a brother in law who says exactly that, why go out when I can watch it from couch.
I go to games because I love the game, think it deserves my support, and above all else can actually see more.

Just because something is a bit shit doesn't mean it has to be.
Just because the rugby is the main attraction, there's no harm in the ancillary stuff being good.
If you make it easy and affordable and a good experience, people will go and more importantly will come back, and they'll also bring friends who maybe aren't as into the footy. If people come away with a mild sense of regret at how much it cost and disappointment re quality vs price of what they got, or hold off on buying drinks and food... they don't come back and we get empty grounds.

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

I agree, anyone who was death riding rugby (at Super and NPC level) this year just wasn't watching.

I was really impressed by what I saw of NPC this year, seemed better to my ignorant eyes than the hoopla of Super. Messier, maybe, but far less diluted, and more exciting!

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

I agree, anyone who was death riding rugby (at Super and NPC level) this year just wasn't watching.

I was really impressed by what I saw of NPC this year, seemed better to my ignorant eyes than the hoopla of Super. Messier, maybe, but far less diluted, and more exciting!

Yeah I'm on board too, the actual footy has been great fun.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia

Agreed, I reckon a Giteau rule is the start of the end of NZ's domestic game being anything more than a development league for other comps. It's worth noting that would help Lam btw, but also his rationale was on this aspect was faulty all the way through, so I'd recommend listening to the interview in full.

Edit:

On live games, I'm not going given how much it costs - no only in terms of money, but also the 1 hour drive there and back again, plus traffic, and the shitty food, and shitty beer. I'm surprised people actually go.

Going to rugby has always been thus mate. In fact it used to be you couldn't buy a beer there anyway. But I genuinely think if people don't go to rugby because of shitty beer, they were never going for rugby anyway. Probably same for food, my only concern would be price for people in family groups, but the same in any sport or where there temporary food stalls. I (and mrs) usually have something to eat before a game, and same with having a beer etc.Geez and I drive always an hour for NPC games, never under 2 hrs for a super game and about 3.5 hours for tests.
It's ok to say I don't want to get off couch, got a brother in law who says exactly that, why go out when I can watch it from couch.
I go to games because I love the game, think it deserves my support, and above all else can actually see more.

Just because something is a bit shit doesn't mean it has to be.
Just because the rugby is the main attraction, there's no harm in the ancillary stuff being good.
If you make it easy and affordable and a good experience, people will go and more importantly will come back, and they'll also bring friends who maybe aren't as into the footy. If people come away with a mild sense of regret at how much it cost and disappointment re quality vs price of what they got, or hold off on buying drinks and food... they don't come back and we get empty grounds.

Don't disagree mate, what I saying you can find a reason to stay home, or find a reason to go. Have to travel an hour or 2 to game? Can't change that, unless you move.
Beer not up to standard? It never will be everyone has different tastes, and not enough (hopefully) go to a game for the beer. Otherwise you get families not interested in taking their kids to hang out with a lot of pissheads?
I not sure how you are going to sell food or beer cheap at stadiums as they all temporary set ups, that cost an awful lot more to set up and run than in a permanent base. All sports have same problem unfortunately, they all have to pay for rent of stadium, and in a lot of cases have to use the suppliers etc for food etc. Also food vendors etc also have to pay to have use of facilities, meet food and health standards, and pay staff . Same with booze, it not easy get liquor licenses etc. Wish it was of course, and all rugby unions didn't have to pay players etc to make it cheaper. But as I say it same complaints on costs etc on almost any sport in my experience ,admittedly only in NZ and Australia that I know of.
In a perfect world, it would all be easier and cheaper, but someone has to pay costs.

Also add myself and Mrs are season ticket holders at of the Naki. Costs us $110 each for tickets the best ones we can get, also cover parking etc at games, I don't find that over the top in anyway.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

I agree, anyone who was death riding rugby (at Super and NPC level) this year just wasn't watching.

I was really impressed by what I saw of NPC this year, seemed better to my ignorant eyes than the hoopla of Super. Messier, maybe, but far less diluted, and more exciting!

Yeah I'm on board too, the actual footy has been great fun.

Strangely enough, that could signify that the public may be aligned with us becoming Brazil-like, the NPC was fun but it was mainly about finding and enjoying the new talent coming out. It was certainly not close at all to premier domestic competitions in terms of level of defense and organization, which are essential as the step to international rugby.

So, to take a side I don't actually agree with for arguments sake, if we have local competitions which are focused on getting players to the ABs, we could just turn into SA, pick from overseas, and use AB revenue to focus our local competitions on finding the next big thing. That is basically Lam's argument.

@Tim

Jeez, i'd like to be hearing some of the chattering inside NZR at the mo.
Wonder whose idea this was; Anthony? Lendrum? Kirk?; definitely not the CEO.
Or maybe it was Robinson's final piece of advice while walking out the door.
"Stay away from this one guys, get someone else to do it."

Tricker probably the right man for the job, so long as he is not already cosy with the likes of Lendrum/Anthony.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

becoming Brazil-like

We are Brazil-like now.
Hundreds of our players play abroad (thousands for Brazil).
The Brazil domestic leagues are still great tho; just like ours.
Just not top bracket.

The only difference is NZ can retain at least some star players because of the international rugby set up.
The concern is we become Uruguay-like.

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

becoming Brazil-like

We are Brazil-like now.
Hundreds of our players play abroad (thousands for Brazil).
The Brazil domestic leagues are still great tho; just like ours.
Just not top bracket.

The only difference is NZ can retain at least some star players because of the international rugby set up.
The concern is we become Uruguay-like.

I'd definitely take Uruguay over Brazil, they're ranked 14th in the world. Brazil are 34th. It's like they don't even play Rugby.

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:

I'd definitely take Uruguay over Brazil, they're ranked 14th in the world. Brazil are 34th. It's like they don't even play Rugby.

Haha
The 2 x World champs Uruguay, currently ranked 16th.
Which is actually pretty good for them; have been down as far as 76th.
And the 5th ranked 5 x WC winners Brazil; still up with the heavy weights; which is us now; and where we wanna stay.

And the Brazil dom league is actually a very competitive league; more interesting in a competitive sense than the big west Euro soccer leagues.
Once went to a Fla-Flu match at the Maracana, long ago, in another life-time.

As a non-sporting aside; the NZ economy does look a bit like a south american economy.
The main dif being, NZ keeps a tighter lid on vested interests (corruption).
So maybe comparing NZ rugby with south american soccer is not totally out of place.

What NZR future may look like: Brazil national soccer team 2025

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.

This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.

I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.

MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.

This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.

I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.

MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine

Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.

@ShaquilleOatmeal I think all of the above, obviously cost has gone up, doubt you can get a ticket/pint/tshirt/bus to game combo for $30 like we use to back in the last 90's...and people tried for a long time to keep going to night games in the same way they did day games....but i imagine parent are less inclined to let theirs kids run around in the dark out of site at 9pm than they might out in the open in the sun on a grass embankment at 3pm....let alone paying a small fortune for it

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia There are several factors stopping people going as frequently as they used to. The price, as you say - and not just the tickets. Better quality streaming and TVs. A bit of over-saturation of rugby. More competition from other entertainment. Lower-quality competitions, with no All Blacks in the NPC, etc.

This one might just be me, but Super Rugby seems to have lost its appeal a bit with all the changes to teams and competition structure, South African teams leaving, Australian teams underperforming.

I also think atmosphere decline feeds on itself. Smaller crowds create a vicious cycle: empty seats reduce atmosphere, poor atmosphere discourages new or casual fans and once a ground feels quiet, people assume it’s not worth going.

MY personal experience is also the time, we had so many years of night games creeping later and later, am i miss remembering they got to 805pm kickoff? it just became a thing lots of families wouldnt do....and if you dont go with your family i think your less likely to go as an adult, i dont have kids but i would struggle to get mate to come to the pub or even at someone's house...clashed with bed time or bath etc...and when people did come it was always talked about "beautiful day this avo and was looking for something to do with the kids"...now we're getting some more day games which is good but its definitely not peoples routine

Taking the kids to a night game does seem like it'd be a bit too difficult. Our one kid is too young to sit and watch a game and, yes, his bedtime is (conveniently for watching at home) bang on 7:00. But people must have used to either go with the family or without them. Something's changed there - the cost, time, a different attitude etc - that wasn't an issue before. There were more afternoon games pre-professionalism but that's now a long time ago.

The thing that has changed is the convenience of watching it at home, and the general attitude of convenience. Games at night it certainly a factor, but needing tv money since professional came is the big reason for this. TV pays the money, wants the product at night for good viewing times, and it pretty easy to stay at home and watch it in comfort.
I mean one of fasting growing things is uber eats, just sit at home and have everything brought to you there. Have a peek t how many music festivals etc are shutting up shop as well, it's too hard to go out for some.
Apart from young kids everything else about shit food and beer etc is just an excuse really. My experience is ( I been going to rugby, etc for long time), the food and even beer is probably better now than ever was, usually more choice in both, but crowds are still dwindling.

@Dan54 it would take a culture shift, its the norm for millions in the UK to go to football games ate 230-30 every other sat for +20 games a year (let alone the away days that dont work as well in NZ), go have lunch, walk down and watch the game, have a couple of beers and home for dinner

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Point remains, we can't expect to have a It's just not realistic.

No-one is expecting NZR to have range of first rate internationally tier 1 experienced head coach candidates available when we want them.

But the point remains that NZR chose a bloke with no experience of Test rugby whatsoever. rather than court other candidates.

Well the counter argument to that is that is if we run a selection process right now who is the most qualified candidate by your metrics?

One of the applicants will have won 8 Super rugby titles and have two years of international coaching experience where he achieved No 2 ranking in the world.

Should they pick a failed Wallabies and Ireland coach who never had much success at Super Rugby or that guy by your metrics? Unless they choose Rassie Eramus or Steve Hansen no one is more qualified than Scott Robertson at this very moment by the metrics you keep harping on about.