@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
That deep lying backline looked more like Rennie's ABs than either Fozzie's or Razor's
What I thought was obvious was the number of times he was attacking the outside shoulder. In recent seasons he's been asked to run a short line and cut in
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
That deep lying backline looked more like Rennie's ABs than either Fozzie's or Razor's
Having Reiko looking to make the outside break instead of cutting back in to bash the ball like he was asked to by Robertson looked great in those clips as well. As did all the running with the ball in two hands
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not so much from Lowe.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
@Jnr said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
He showed enough pace on other plays and the important thing is the wing scored off a beautiful pass from him after the intercept. Better than what Proctor managed after his line break on Saturday.
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
That deep lying backline looked more like Rennie's ABs than either Fozzie's or Razor's
What I thought was obvious was the number of times he was attacking the outside shoulder. In recent seasons he's been asked to run a short line and cut in
The very first try they gave him an extra yard of space on the outside and that's all he needed despite a 2on2 situation. That's exactly how I thought the ABs would use him when he shifted to 13. It's a bit concerning that both Jordie and Rieko are playing much better footy after spending time getting coaching up north...
@No-Quarter agreed. Jordi is definitely a better player for it. it looks like Ioane is too. I am happy with Ioane in the squad. I don't see him as a starter but as a 3rd choice 13 or wing cover under the new regime he could be useful. Put it this way, if we are 1 all going into the 3rd test against the Boers and we had an injury crisis at 13, I would be very happy for him to step in and play a very pressurized game at 13 against Kriel and De Allende. He isn't going to be overwhelmed by them.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Jnr said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
He showed enough pace on other plays and the important thing is the wing scored off a beautiful pass from him after the intercept. Better than what Proctor managed after his line break on Saturday.
The important thing is we don’t compare what a player did in a URC game to a test match. If you’re going to compare Rieko and Proctor at least compare them on an even playing field i.e URC vs Super.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Jnr said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
He showed enough pace on other plays and the important thing is the wing scored off a beautiful pass from him after the intercept. Better than what Proctor managed after his line break on Saturday.
The important thing is we don’t compare what a player did in a URC game to a test match. If you’re going to compare Rieko and Proctor at least compare them on an even playing field i.e URC vs Super.
It was Italy and we beat them 47 to 17. Leinster and some of the top French teams that play in the Champions Cup would beat Italy. The Canes, the Chiefs and probably the Crusaders would beat Italy at home.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Jnr said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
He showed enough pace on other plays and the important thing is the wing scored off a beautiful pass from him after the intercept. Better than what Proctor managed after his line break on Saturday.
The important thing is we don’t compare what a player did in a URC game to a test match. If you’re going to compare Rieko and Proctor at least compare them on an even playing field i.e URC vs Super.
It was Italy and we beat them 47 to 17. Leinster and some of the top French teams that play in the Champions Cup would beat Italy. The Canes, the Chiefs and probably the Crusaders would beat Italy at home.
Do you also think those teams would beat England and Scotland?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Jnr said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
Some great passing in their from Rieko.
Not horrible. But geez he was slow on that intercept.
He showed enough pace on other plays and the important thing is the wing scored off a beautiful pass from him after the intercept. Better than what Proctor managed after his line break on Saturday.
The important thing is we don’t compare what a player did in a URC game to a test match. If you’re going to compare Rieko and Proctor at least compare them on an even playing field i.e URC vs Super.
It was Italy and we beat them 47 to 17. Leinster and some of the top French teams that play in the Champions Cup would beat Italy. The Canes, the Chiefs and probably the Crusaders would beat Italy at home.
Do you also think those teams would beat England and Scotland?
An extremely average Blues side beat the B&I Lions in 2017.
Our teams are very hard to beat at home when in top form and when there is a scalp so I back them.
Having said that England and Scotland are ranked 5th and 6th while Italy is ranked 10th so I expect the games to be tougher.
Japan whipped this Italian team 27 - 10 ten days ago. Italy are clearly a different prospect at home but they struggle to win away.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
An extremely average Blues side beat the B&I Lions in 2017.
So an extremely average blues team from nearly ten years ago could have beaten the ABs and is relevant nine years later?
Ok.
Sometimes the logic gets confusing.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
An extremely average Blues side beat the B&I Lions in 2017.
So an extremely average blues team from nearly ten years ago could have beaten the ABs and is relevant nine years later?
Ok.
Sometimes the logic gets confusing.
I never claimed to be logical.
Watching those clips...
He's holding the ball in both hands a lot more and trying to put people in space...big plus
He seems to have lost a fair bit of pace. A Reiko of 2-3 years ago would have pinned his ears back and burned the opposition. Maybe that's a Leinster coaching thing though.
I don't mind Ioane in the midfield at all - just think he's behind Proctor and potentially Tupaea and Lienert-Brown. Don't think he has the pace to be on the wing though.
But also that highlights package wasn't exactly stellar given it's for a full season. A few good moments and a few very normal moments you would find for probably any midfielder in the world at almost any level.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:
Lienert-Brown
Oh come on. 2024 vs Argentina, ALB missed several tackles and was horribly bad.
He has done nothing at test level other than give away cards for several years.
2023 World Cup was at least relevant and had Schmidt coaching.
@brodean yet Italy beat England and Scotland, Ireland (essentially Leinster) only beat them 20-13 ( a game that Italy really should have won) at home. Their last game against the Springbok was 32-14 so put up more of a fight than the ABs did at Wellington.
Thinking this Italian team isn’t good and can’t beat anyone (with the exception of the ABs and Springbok) on their day is a pretty silly statement
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
Proctor and Tupaea both failed to claim the position so far.
And so did Rieko with far more chances
He was re-selected their for years. He obviously claimed it getting a chance in 2020 and then consistently being selected their leading up until the 2023 RWC.
Sure he lost it but there was a period of years where he was the preferred 13.
The failed All Black coach Scott Robertson tried to move him back to 11 but by the end of the URC season Rieko was the preferred 13 to Ringrose at Leinster - Ireland's highly acclaimed 13.
He's looked decent enough for Leinster, but "decent" in the URC and Champions Cup isn't the benchmark for starting in the black jersey. The All Blacks should be selecting players who can change test matches, not simply get through them.
Defensively, there's no questioning his ability. His work rate, line speed and physicality are outstanding, and he's one of the best defensive centres we have. But defence alone shouldn't be enough to lock down the No. 13 jersey.
Attack is where the concerns are for me. Too often he defaults to taking contact rather than putting players around him into space. The great All Black centres, players like Conrad Smith made everyone outside them better. They drew defenders, squared up the line and consistently created opportunities. Rieko still looks like a winger playing centre rather than a genuine playmaking 13.
The other reality is that the raw pace that made him such a devastating weapon early in his career isn't quite what it used to be. He's still quick, but he's no longer blowing Test defenders away purely through speed. When that point of difference starts to fade, the other parts of your game need to become elite, and I don't think his distribution or decision-making have reached that level.
You point to his time at Leinster as proof he's rediscovered his best form, but I'd argue he's simply been solid. There's a big difference between fitting seamlessly into a quality provincial side and consistently dominating the biggest Test matches. This is where Proctor has also struggled.
For me, the All Blacks need a centre who offers more than defensive stability. They need someone who can unlock defences, create space for the outside backs and provide another layer of attacking threat. Right now, I don't think Rieko does that consistently enough.
Rieko started to make assists in second half of URC season.
@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones I think any 6N team aside from France in late June/July on tour in NZ could conceivably lose against the top 3 NZ teams at full strength. Not exactly out of the realm of possibility given their potential to be very ordinary.
Maybe Wales in the last year and Italy on a very, very bad day.
But Ireland, England and Scotland at full-strength? I don't think it's a serious proposition.
@Victor-Meldrew Yeah. I’m looking at it as part of a tour at the end of the NH season. Given that Lions teams lose to club teams.
Is it conceivable that the Canes beat Leinster? That’s my thinking.
@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones I think any 6N team aside from France in late June/July on tour in NZ could conceivably lose against the top 3 NZ teams at full strength. Not exactly out of the realm of possibility given their potential to be very ordinary.
I don't know if you're helping @brodean's reasoning or harming it.
@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones Give me an inch to diminish 6N rugby and I’ll take it.
Mate even Llanelli beat the ABs.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2026:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't get the Rieko hate. I reckon he was one of the most underutilised players in the last few AB seasons. A direct recipient of slow ball into BB shovelling, putting JB into zero space meaning Rieko got trite double shovelled ball or maybe at best a pop pass in a tackle if Jordie freed his arms.. I don't recall him being given any ball in space then failing to put an outside away when he had the chance
Agree with this. Suspect Rieko was the victim of a combination of the tall poppy syndrome in New Zealand (not fake playing the 'aw shucks I'm just happy to be a caretaker of the black jersey' schtick) and the absence of any attacking strategy in the Razor regime with the contact-shy BB just either shovelling the ball on or kicking it aimlessly away. I certainly think he offers more at centre than a journeyman like ALB. And I don't agree he's 'past it'.
I think under the new attack strategy he might do well. Some highlights from his recent URC stint....
He was also not very well-used during the late-Foster years when Schmidt brought in a much simplified attack when both he and Jordie were used far too often as crash ball merchants, something neither were especially good at.
While being a massive Stan, I agree that he far too often tucked and ducked even if he did far too often get the ball too flat to the defensive line actually to make a pass. I am interested to see how he would go in the new attacking shape where it seems we are coming onto the ball with a lot more pace and depth. To me, that was always the way he should have been used given his erstwhile almost unmatched pace.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't mind Ioane in the midfield at all - just think he's behind Proctor and potentially Tupaea and Lienert-Brown
Look, I'm a huge fan of ALB. He's been fucked about by the last 2-3 coaches but still gave his all. Had he been handled properly he could have been a true AB great and if any player deserves 100 caps it's him.
But his time has passed. Take him for the mid-week games in SA possibly, but he shouldn't be blocking others in Tests
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@game_film said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones Give me an inch to diminish 6N rugby and I’ll take it.
Mate even Llanelli beat the ABs.
As did scratch teams of English amateurs - twice
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
He seems to have lost a fair bit of pace. A Reiko of 2-3 years ago would have pinned his ears back and burned the opposition. Maybe that's a Leinster coaching thing though.
It was clear last year in NZ he had lost a fair bit of pace. It's not unique to Leinster.
@Rugbyman said in All Blacks 2026:
@Mr-Fish he came good at the business end of the URC and was picked ahead of Ringrose at 13 in the big games. He was good in those 3 knockout games against Saffer teams in URC.
Yeah I'm more talking about that specific highlights package.
New All Blacks jersey coming for the upcoming tour.
It's a limited data set given we're only two games in the new regime, but what's standing out is when you rank the loose forwards;
Lakai is average at practically everything.
Jacobson is basically tackling, but
Savea is tackling more, and
Sititi carries heaps, but without much gain (although that could be a result of his handling).
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
Lakai is average at practically everything.
We all know he isn't a 6. He's clearly our most skillful loose forward so let's get him back to 8 where he belongs and where he can make his biggest influence. Based on the performance against Italy, Sititi should be dropped.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
Lakai is average at practically everything.
We all know he isn't a 6. He's clearly our most skillful loose forward so let's get him back to 8 where he belongs and where he can make his biggest influence. Based on the performance against Italy, Sititi should be dropped.
What do you think will change with him having an 8 on his jersey, when I we are basically playing positionless loose forward footy?
Where he places ot the scrum won’t change much in terms of what he does around d the park.
Unfortunately the official data they're releasing as part of the Nations Championship doesn't have extensive data sets available. Nothing interesting for rivet counters like "rucks attended"
, let alone "first to ruck", "effective cleans" etc.
Something other professional sports (looking at the USA mainly) has in abundance. Probably because there's no market for it here.
Either they counted Savea and Lakai together or Lakai was MIA at ruck time against the French.
@antipodean yeah they like to keep it all.secret.
I mean the data is there, why not make.it available?
a lot of rugby metrics are talking about would be based on judgement as well. American sports have huge benefit there in the very nature of their games. Imagine looking at a ruck and deciding who was doing something and who was leaning? Or if it was even really contested?
I do agree that rugby treats far too much information like state secrets though
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean yeah they like to keep it all.secret.
I mean the data is there, why not make.it available?
More amateurism from WR
