@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
If Rennie wants to pick Mo'unga and Frizell, I think NZR are missing a trick by not letting him. OK, we don't pick from overseas, but do we need to be puritanical about it?
Yes. They knew the cut off dates for returning and selection and decided not to return by those dates.
Yeah - but, I couldn't care less about these arbitrary dates and rules. They're signed to play in NZ and that should be enough - we risk shooting our feet off by being pedantic.
Of course you don't, you want your boy Friz in the team.
I couldn't actually give a fuck if Frizz is in the team or not - aside from the fabulous wind-up potential here!
If he's playing how he did when he left, he'll be quite useful for Ta$man. But, I would like us to have the best possible chance of winning in South Africa, so I think Dave should be able to pick who he wants - within reason.
If he's going to put them on a plane with the first injury (see Big Leicester last year) it's a bit farcical.
It's slippery slope, if you let the players start dictating their availability then what's the point having regulations at all?
I think it is a pointless regulation. "You must have played Super or NPC"... why not just be signed to play Super or NPC?
I'm pretty sure that used to be the way it worked.
Meanwhile, the Jaapies will roll out all their Japanese players with little compunction about their domestic players who are busting their arses...
If they give us a beating it will do a lot more to keep rugby thriving in SA than us carting along a couple of guys to play midweek will do for us.
But, my original point stands for me, the regulations are the regulations and the players know them, if you want to advocate for SA rugby rules then that's a whole other argument (and one that ends with a dead domestic game and the leaguie's feeling very happy).
I'm not advocating for SA rules. But, Captain Kirk could change that elegibility rule as I suggest tomorrow - and I'm advocating for that.
Someone whould ask him how it is that Rennie and Blair can happily finish out their Japanese coaching season and have seats at the front of the plane to SA, but players can't?
What about all the poor coaches in NZ busting their arses....?
We'd be picking from a very small group if we could only select from NZ. It's an acknowledgement of the state of the world. South Africa select from aboard because their economy is terrible. France have a strong economy and a thriving competition so they don't.
I know - and Rennie would probably have told them to get fucked if they'd said he had to spend a season coaching NPC. But, the rule is not consistent.
The rule is consistently applied to the specified groups. Thankfully the adults running rugby in NZ aren't so given to logical fallacies that hiring a bus driver, physiotherapist, cook etc. also need to have provided those services in NZ at NPC/SR level before they can be engaged for the All Blacks.
Yeah - I'm terrified our bus driver is going to fuck off with some critical IP on the benefits of double de-clutching.
As pointed out, the supposed adults running NZR had precisely the same restriction on coaches needing to be coaching in NZ to coach the ABs. Someone woke up and changed it..
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
To me it is clear this All Blacks team wants to move the ball quickly, and move it wide. This is not actually dissimilar to how Robertson started out, but I think the use of the forward pack, and a better running 10 makes the strategy look 10 times better.
It also feels like we are using our midfield as crash ball runners far less, which begs the question, assuming he was going to be picked, where would Leicester Fainga'anuku have played in this ABs side?
Left right out for me.
I wouldn't select him on any position over any of the current squad.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
If Rennie wants to pick Mo'unga and Frizell, I think NZR are missing a trick by not letting him. OK, we don't pick from overseas, but do we need to be puritanical about it?
Yes. They knew the cut off dates for returning and selection and decided not to return by those dates.
Yeah - but, I couldn't care less about these arbitrary dates and rules. They're signed to play in NZ and that should be enough - we risk shooting our feet off by being pedantic.
Of course you don't, you want your boy Friz in the team.
I couldn't actually give a fuck if Frizz is in the team or not - aside from the fabulous wind-up potential here!
If he's playing how he did when he left, he'll be quite useful for Ta$man. But, I would like us to have the best possible chance of winning in South Africa, so I think Dave should be able to pick who he wants - within reason.
If he's going to put them on a plane with the first injury (see Big Leicester last year) it's a bit farcical.
It's slippery slope, if you let the players start dictating their availability then what's the point having regulations at all?
I think it is a pointless regulation. "You must have played Super or NPC"... why not just be signed to play Super or NPC?
I'm pretty sure that used to be the way it worked.
Meanwhile, the Jaapies will roll out all their Japanese players with little compunction about their domestic players who are busting their arses...
If they give us a beating it will do a lot more to keep rugby thriving in SA than us carting along a couple of guys to play midweek will do for us.
But, my original point stands for me, the regulations are the regulations and the players know them, if you want to advocate for SA rugby rules then that's a whole other argument (and one that ends with a dead domestic game and the leaguie's feeling very happy).
I'm not advocating for SA rules. But, Captain Kirk could change that elegibility rule as I suggest tomorrow - and I'm advocating for that.
Someone whould ask him how it is that Rennie and Blair can happily finish out their Japanese coaching season and have seats at the front of the plane to SA, but players can't?
What about all the poor coaches in NZ busting their arses....?
We'd be picking from a very small group if we could only select from NZ. It's an acknowledgement of the state of the world. South Africa select from aboard because their economy is terrible. France have a strong economy and a thriving competition so they don't.
I know - and Rennie would probably have told them to get fucked if they'd said he had to spend a season coaching NPC. But, the rule is not consistent.
The rule is consistently applied to the specified groups. Thankfully the adults running rugby in NZ aren't so given to logical fallacies that hiring a bus driver, physiotherapist, cook etc. also need to have provided those services in NZ at NPC/SR level before they can be engaged for the All Blacks.
Yeah - I'm terrified our bus driver is going to fuck off with some critical IP on the benefits of double de-clutching.
Predictably you've missed the point.
As pointed out, the supposed adults running NZR had precisely the same restriction on coaches needing to be coaching in NZ to coach the ABs. Someone woke up and changed it..
You're assuming the player rule and the coaching situation exist for the same purpose. They don't.
The overseas player rule is an economic policy designed to keep elite players contracted to New Zealand franchises and unions for as much of the year as possible. Every exception weakens that incentive because future players will expect similar treatment.
Coaches don't create that market dynamic. There isn't an exodus of hundreds of New Zealand coaches every year threatening the viability of Super Rugby or NPC. The head coach is a single appointment made once every four years. Treating that as an exception has essentially zero impact on the domestic coaching pathway.
So the fact NZR became more flexible about an informal policy on coaching appointments tells us almost nothing about whether player eligibility should be relaxed. They're solving different problems. When NZR opened coaching recruitment, it did not suddenly allow anyone from anywhere to coach the All Blacks. The successful candidate was still a New Zealander with extensive experience in the NZ high-performance system, with a consistent record of success.
What NZR didn't do was lower its standards when it changed its coaching policy. Likewise, it shouldn't bend a clearly written eligibility rule for a player who knowingly made himself ineligible. Especially one that went missing in a World Cup final.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
but we're sitting Mo'unga in the naughty chair.
He's sitting on solid gold chair counting his NZ pesos converted from yen after deciding, of his own volition, to come back at a time that ruled him out of contention for this tour, despite his champion Razor trying to get him back earlier. Blame NZR all you want, Mo could have been here this whole time, it was his choice not to be.
Or, we could listen to Chris B which would result in Mo playing 10 and Love missing out in yet more development.
If Mo is still good enough he'll be here for the WC.
Until then we need to play a 10 for the first time in too many years who isn't Mo, BB or Dmac. I think it might have been 2017!!!!
@antipodean Honestly, do you think I don't understand the principle of all that? Though some of what you say about coaches is debatable.
The question is - what is the point of making Mo'unga wait until the EOYT?
If he's good enough, he'll supplant our other first fives and play the big games at RWC. In which case, all we're doing is reducing our chances of winning this coming tour and RWC2027.
Do you actually think that making him play NPC (at least until someone gets injured) is going to dissuade our other players from signing overseas? There's a heap of people have fucked off regardless of seeing how Richie has been treated.
And we're talking about a guy who has been our first five at the past two RWCs and took us to a final.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean Honestly, do you think I don't understand the principle of all that?
Yes.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean Honestly, do you think I don't understand the principle of all that?
Yes.
You're wrong again - but, no worries! 
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@antipodean Honestly, do you think I don't understand the principle of all that?
Yes.
You're wrong again - but, no worries!
I'm not wrong - you've consistently failed to appreciate that it's a retention mechanism. You approach it as a selection handicap, but that's not what it is. A retention mechanism that disappears whenever the player may good enough is not a retention mechanism.
The Jordie - Tupaea centre pairing has the potential to be the worlds best. Need to keep playing them together as much as possible so Tupaea can get comfortable defending outside Jordie. I think that is one of the most exciting thing out of these three matches, though there's a lot to get excited about again.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
I think it is a pointless regulation. "You must have played Super or NPC"... why not just be signed to play Super or NPC?
I'm pretty sure that used to be the way it worked.
Meanwhile, the Jaapies will roll out all their Japanese players with little compunction about their domestic players who are busting their arses...
If they give us a beating it will do a lot more to keep rugby thriving in SA than us carting along a couple of guys to play midweek will do for us.
think you summed the situation up quite well there
and the saffers are winning world championships and the game is thriving there
i dont really give a fuck about SR and the NPC
both competitions have been well and truly superseded, in just about every way you can think of, and probably nothing NZR can do about that
still got hope that the ABs are not guna get completely superseded tho; if they play it smart
and that is the main thing
Wouldn't mind seeing this team get a run before year end
- Ethan De Groot
- Samisoni Taukei'aho
- Fletcher Newell
- Sam Darry (cc)
- Fabien Holland
- Tupou Vaai
- Luke Jacobson
- Peter Lakai
- Cam Riogard
- Reuben Love
- Josh Moorby
- Jordie Barrett
- Quinn Tupeau
- Will Jordan (cc)
- Damien Mackenzie
Reserves
16. Xavier Numia
17. Asafo Aumua
18. Pasilio Tosi
19. Patrick Tuipoluto
20. Ardie Savea (cc)
21. Kyle Preston
22. Leicester Fainga'anuku
23. Caleb Clarke
Would like to see Callum Harkin selected for SA. He is the next best potential 10 we have currently in NZ and it would be criminal not to develop him.
Beauden Barret is finished. Damien Mackenzie we can all see now is nothing more than cover in the 10 position and Richie Mounga we don't know how committed he is given his past record of choosing the money over the All Blacks.
the south african economy is twice the NZ
and i'd say it isn't terrible for everyone
probably 5 mil are doin ok; and they are the ones that think rugby is just great
if you look at it from that POV, it's probably very similar to NZ
with that one difference as far as NT rugby is concerned, a difference which seems to be gaining more importance
and when japies are winning world championships, i'd say all the rest of the saffers think rugby is pretty good too
I dont think France have their own special residency requirements for their NT
the majority of the French soccer NT (who were the favorites for the WC) ply their trades outside of France
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:
and the saffers are winning world championships and the game is thriving there
For now.
Short term picking from overseas is great. But it takes time to filter through to dilute the comps and undermine the structure. NZR have done this well with Super - expanding when the talent wsan't there, taking players out to save them for the ABs. The comp has deteriorated. If you pick overseas players you diminish it further, just when it may be turning a corner.
NZR's strength is alignment through the NPC Super and ABs. Players getting flogged by clubs overseas means you just don't know what condition they get back in - and combine the travel factor as well. We are not in the same time zone as Europe (the SA are) - so it's damn hard to bring people back, get them into the environment and playing within a week. Remember the Paul brothers in league? They used to do that - come over for a one off test. Not easy.
Just a random thought, with our depth in locks , I can see why you might not select patty to start when you are selecting 2 locks and our smaller loosies . The taller options probably make more sense .
But if you are going to select Tupou at 6 , I think you get away with his lack of height more and then you get the added bonus of his physicality and strong Carries . The qualities you might get from a traditional 6, so there is some balance to the pack.
His selection makes more sense to me now .
I think if Tuipulotu keeps playing like he did on Saturday then you probably want him in the 23. I also think Darry played exceptionally well in his two matches. I think Lord and Holland are fighting it out for the other starting berth (assuming that Vaa'i is at 6 and that a lock is selected on the bench). Given Holland is coming back from injury, Lord has the inside running.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2026:
I think if Tuipulotu keeps playing like he did on Saturday then you probably want him in the 23. I also think Darry played exceptionally well in his two matches. I think Lord and Holland are fighting it out for the other starting berth (assuming that Vaa'i is at 6 and that a lock is selected on the bench). Given Holland is coming back from injury, Lord has the inside running.
That's pretty much how I see it too. Tuipulotu's carrying in traffic is a useful point of difference vs the others.
I'd give Holland the edge over Lord on work rate though - I think he hits more rucks, makes more tackles and covers more ground - but that is assuming he quickly gets back to the standard he was at last year.
I don't like Vaa'i playing 6 then going into lock particularly.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:
and the saffers are winning world championships and the game is thriving there
For now.
Short term picking from overseas is great. But it takes time to filter through to dilute the comps and undermine the structure. NZR have done this well with Super - expanding when the talent wsan't there, taking players out to save them for the ABs. The comp has deteriorated. If you pick overseas players you diminish it further, just when it may be turning a corner.
NZR's strength is alignment through the NPC Super and ABs. Players getting flogged by clubs overseas means you just don't know what condition they get back in - and combine the travel factor as well. We are not in the same time zone as Europe (the SA are) - so it's damn hard to bring people back, get them into the environment and playing within a week. Remember the Paul brothers in league? They used to do that - come over for a one off test. Not easy.
Additionally, people are using the current Boks as the example of why this is fine, forgetting that for the majority of the time we dominated them they had the same or similar eligibility. They have a golden generation currently, and arguably transformation/quotas (that so many of their supposed fans hated) is the driving force behind that in conjunction with a really good coach (or manager or whatever the fuck Rassie is).
South Africa doesn't have the NRL on it's doorstep to fill in the domestic gap, we will have if we allow all our best players to go overseas.
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
Wouldn't mind seeing this team get a run before year end
- Ethan De Groot
- Samisoni Taukei'aho
- Fletcher Newell
- Sam Darry (cc)
- Fabien Holland
- Tupou Vaai
- Luke Jacobson
- Peter Lakai
- Cam Riogard
- Reuben Love
- Josh Moorby
- Jordie Barrett
- Quinn Tupeau
- Will Jordan (cc)
- Damien Mackenzie
Reserves
16. Xavier Numia
17. Asafo Aumua
18. Pasilio Tosi
19. Patrick Tuipoluto
20. Ardie Savea (cc)
21. Kyle Preston
22. Leicester Fainga'anuku
23. Caleb Clarke
I wouldn’t be leaving Ardie out of any important test match this year. He’s on fire at the moment.
For the bench, I wouldn’t have both Fainga’anuku and Clarke. Both cover wing. You could play Fainga’anuku and a specialist 1st 5 (Mo’unga). With Clarke they will want a midfield cover
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2026:
Sounds like Mounga will tour whether he plays or not remains to be seen. What about Frizell? No one is mentioning Ioane. Could he play a similar role to what he did in preparing for Ireland?
Ioane will tour. At the initial squad naming Rennie gave about as strong a hint as you can give - plus being brought into the squad last week.
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2026:
Is there another coach coming into the All Blacks or has it all been named?
Think there are quite a few part-time coaches that come in when needed to do specific skills work, even if they're not formally on the docket.
Euan Mackintosh has been working with them in July, for example.
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2026:
Sounds like Mounga will tour whether he plays or not remains to be seen. What about Frizell? No one is mentioning Ioane. Could he play a similar role to what he did in preparing for Ireland?
Ioane was on sabbatical so shouldn't be mentioned with those two as far as availbility.
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2026:
Sounds like Mounga will tour whether he plays or not remains to be seen. What about Frizell? No one is mentioning Ioane. Could he play a similar role to what he did in preparing for Ireland?
Do you mean Mo'unga will play an NPC game or wait for an injury, become eligible to play, go on tour but won't be part of the test team? It's likely everyone on tour will play some rugby, unless they're an injury replacement later on in the tour.
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia NZ Rugby still needs to sort the low hanging fruit that’s right in front of their faces
Shredding pathways is death by thousand cuts leaving the door open for the rival code to walk in and grab whatever talent is available already happening talking to HP guys around the traps
I know your more in the know about Auckland but do you think it's more specific to there? Schoolboy rugby numbers have been increasing, like most sports after Covid, which seems to be a rising tide raises all boats - are they all switching to league at 19?
But, really, who are all these kids going to league? We hear of the odd cases like Inch and the loosie from Ta$man, but most of the players we see coming up through the grades in Oz when you look closely at them have a league background.
I think I've said on here that I did some work on Maori players in Oz during the U20s Toyota Cup days when there was more money involved and the numbers going over from rugby then was really high. (Sadly most of the guys I interviewed never made it to the majors).
Although, if you mean a structured U20 for Super then I'd be fully on board for that. Although, we can't overlook that the pathway for rugby is the NPC, and we see lots of guys now who are the equivalent of league U20s and reserve grade coming up through NPC to Super.
There's also the fact we're never going to be able to keep them all. but we're losing more to NH rugby than league.
Sorry mods for the off topic.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2026:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
Tamaiti Williams, Holland, Big Leicester, Narawa, Tangitau
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks 2026:
Norris, Bell, Ahio, Hannah, Kirifi, Lio Willie, Hotham, Kemara, Ioane, Harkin
Personally not sure about Kirifi. Just think his size is a disqualifier. Not sure who is next in line though.
Ahio has announced he's leaving, so does that disqualify him? What state is Ofa in?
Jim the difference get a look in?
Does Harkin cover 10?
Would love to see Hutchinson.
I too think Kirifi is a bit small, but I seem to recall Rennie name-checked him as unlucky.
Didn't know that about Ahio - a pity. Probably does rule him out.
They pretty clearly like people with fullback skills - Love, Jordie, Jordan, Moorby and DMac all in last night's team.
hopefully that means Hutchinson goes to SA.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
I don't like Vaa'i playing 6 then going into lock particularly.
Neither do I. Have to be knackering going from 6 then back into the engine room
@BerniesCorner we could have Darry on the bench and Vaai stays on at 6 and Segner comes on at 7 for Jacobson.
@Rugbyman said in All Blacks 2026:
@BerniesCorner we could have Darry on the bench and Vaai stays on at 6 and Segner comes on at 7 for Jacobson.
We need to use Lakai.
Savea's playing well but I hope Rennie uses all the talented forwards. Team effort. Savea doesn't have to go 80 every game
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2026:
@Rugbyman said in All Blacks 2026:
@BerniesCorner we could have Darry on the bench and Vaai stays on at 6 and Segner comes on at 7 for Jacobson.
We need to use Lakai.
Savea's playing well but I hope Rennie uses all the talented forwards. Team effort. Savea doesn't have to go 80 every game
Lakai can cover all three positions the best IMO so he has to be in the 23. If we go two loosies you could either have Sititi and Lakai which might prove to be a game changer late in the game on those hard grounds, or Lakai and Segner.