Between Smith, Jamieson, and Henry we have three guys who would all ideally be at about number ten in a Test batting order.
Batters on Day one struggled with the line, but after that the variable length added too much into the mix.
Fielding has fallen away over the last few years it feels like, mainly accuracy - but effort too at times.
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Between Smith, Jamieson, and Henry we have three guys who would all ideally be at about number ten in a Test batting order.
Batters on Day one struggled with the line, but after that the variable length added too much into the mix.
Fielding has fallen away over the last few years it feels like, mainly accuracy - but effort too at times.
Na, number nines at least. Again, do we stack the team with part rounders just to lengthen the batting order ? Fuck no.
AI says that the best number 8 batsmen of all time are Wasim Akram, Daniel Vettori and Ravi Ashwin. Averages of 22, 30 and 25 respectively.
We'll see if Smith can match that long term !
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
I forgot about Satnav. If he's fit, why not?
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
I forgot about Satnav. If he's fit, why not?
Whilst his efforts in Pune will live long in the memory as one of the greatest individual performances ever I don't think he'll reach anywhere near those heights again.
Batting average of 25.83 is too low apparently anyway
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
I forgot about Satnav. If he's fit, why not?
Whilst his efforts in Pune will live long in the memory as one of the greatest individual performances ever I don't think he'll reach anywhere near those heights again.
Batting average of 25.83 is too low apparently anyway
A bit like home, the wicket didn't suit spin. I guess the failure of the top and middle order, along with our poor fielding, makes us look even worse
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
I forgot about Satnav. If he's fit, why not?
Whilst his efforts in Pune will live long in the memory as one of the greatest individual performances ever I don't think he'll reach anywhere near those heights again.
Batting average of 25.83 is too low apparently anyway
A bit like home, the wicket didn't suit spin. I guess the failure of the top and middle order, along with our poor fielding, makes us look even worse
Santner plays if Phillips doesn't.
Bracewell plays if neither of those two does.
like it or not Blundell plays the next two tests and probably bats six.
....and yeah sounds like the fielding was dogshit.
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@canefan said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@Chris said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Nathan Smith
Nathan Smith should not be batting at 8 he is nowhere good enough for that position.
Not much of a test career to sample but a first class average of just under 27 indicates that he is.
Not for me he doesn’t first class average of 27 is poor for a test 8
It's more than Mitchell Starc or Pat Cummins.
Number 8 is the spot where you put the specialist bowler who is the best batsman. Plenty of guys in history have averaged in the high teens ( or in many cases lower ) batting there. Otherwise you put a bits and pieces type player there who might not have made it on bowling alone, fuck that at test level.
But yeah, runs ( or lack of ) from number 8 is pretty low down the list of problems which start from 1-6 from this match.
He won’t average 27 in a test match no way he is not a decent enough test bat he is a weakness at 8 .
I think the pitch was the main problem let’s see how we perform in the other test before we bag proven test batsmen.Yeah but more pedigree than Jamieson or Henry who have both batted 8 in tests. You need bowlers in a team, any batting talent is a bonus.
Seems a weird and harsh nitpick for a guy who bowled better than anyone too.
We are not talking about his bowling ability are we.
8 is important in test cricket I want a better option there.Fair enough. Who then ?
Bear in mind with Henry broken and Jamieson and O'Rourke in constant danger of doing so Smith becomes all the more important in the lineup.
Santner we don’t need 4 quicks in most tests
Blundel is too high at 6 he can’t score test runs anymore with a weak 8 the top 7 in compromised
I forgot about Satnav. If he's fit, why not?
Whilst his efforts in Pune will live long in the memory as one of the greatest individual performances ever I don't think he'll reach anywhere near those heights again.
Batting average of 25.83 is too low apparently anyway
A bit like home, the wicket didn't suit spin. I guess the failure of the top and middle order, along with our poor fielding, makes us look even worse
Santner plays if Phillips doesn't.
Bracewell plays if neither of those two does.
like it or not Blundell plays the next two tests and probably bats six.
....and yeah sounds like the fielding was dogshit.
No you can play Phillips and Santner Phillips holds his spot at 7 should be 6 as a bat and fielder..
Phillips bowling is a bonus on the 4 th and 5th day if it turns.
Ben Stokes set to be left out of England squad for second New Zealand Test https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/jun/09/ben-stokes-set-to-be-left-out-of-england-squad-for-second-new-zealand-test?CMP=share_btn_url
it is now well documented that Stokes cannot handle his piss, and he's led his country's national team down the same road. Flog.
Should have been dropped for good back in 2019, right before a certain WC Final that didnt happen but was able to happen with a different result.
Cut and pasted from FB, I found this quite amusing if very harsh. This was written before the latest incident.
For what its worth he seems to be a very good team man who doesn't pad his stats like Kallis did.......but he's not as good as the great test all rounders, lets be honest. The English press have a lot to answer for in that regard.
If this is the end of his career it's a sad way to go out.
Ben Stokes is playing Test cricket purely for the vibes. 
Can we finally stop pretending Ben Stokes belongs in the England XI? It’s 2026, and the guy is the ultimate definition of captaincy tax. If he didn't have the captain's armband, he wouldn't even make the squad. His batting is completely finished, his bowling is permanently pending on fitness, and his captaincy is massively overrated.
He loves crying to the media about the IPL and T20 cricket, claiming he’s prioritizing the purity of Test cricket, only to show up, make a duck, and look absolutely useless.
Let's look at the actual facts of the most overrated cricketer of the decade:
The Headingley Myth: His entire Test career depends on one single innings in 2019. An innings where he was dead plumb LBW, but got saved because Australia had already burned all their reviews. Pure luck.
The World Cup Fluke: His whole ODI legacy rests on the 2019 final, which everyone knows England won on pure, unadulterated luck and a freak deflection off his bat.
The Invisible Man: The moment he leaves his comfortable home tracks, he disappears. He has never consistently performed in Australia or India.
The Glass Body: Permanently injured since a young age, using his knees as a built-in excuse the second his form falls off a cliff.
The Drama King Reactions: Watch him get cleaned up by a completely normal, straight delivery. He’ll pull a massive, shocked face just to make the casuals think it was some unplayable ball from another planet.
He has become a total walking wicket and a massive liability to team balance.
Meanwhile, Ravindra Jadeja is light years ahead of him as an actual world-class all-rounder. Honestly, being compared to Jadeja is easily the biggest achievement of Stokes’ entire career.England needs to stop running a charity for a past reputation. Strip the captaincy, hand it to Harry Brook so the team can actually progress, and drop Stokes.
Change my mind. 
#Cricket #BenStokes #Ashes #INDvENG #SirJadeja #HarryBrook #CricketTwitter
@MN5 Something tells me that's from an India fan... However like all good stories it does have a grounding in truth. His more recent form has been very hit and miss. He still makes the odd good score and often at critical times and takes a few wickets "just when needed" - ie to break a partnership when nothing else is really working. But overall - lucky to be there on purely cricketing impact. However, he has, along with McCullum and Key transformed England into a much more attacking side which is great IMO. Since he was made captain in 2022 he has 24 wins, 16 losses but crucially only 2 draws.
We never die wondering with this England squad that's for sure.
@Catogrande said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
@MN5 Something tells me that's from an India fan... However like all good stories it does have a grounding in truth. His more recent form has been very hit and miss. He still makes the odd good score and often at critical times and takes a few wickets "just when needed" - ie to break a partnership when nothing else is really working. But overall - lucky to be there on purely cricketing impact. However, he has, along with McCullum and Key transformed England into a much more attacking side which is great IMO. Since he was made captain in 2022 he has 24 wins, 16 losses but crucially only 2 draws.
We never die wondering with this England squad that's for sure.
Yeah he'll go down as a guy who was a better player than his stats suggest which at casual glance are just "good" in both disciplines.
Not one to preserve his wicket if quick runs were needed.
A bit better than Beefy as a batsman, Beefy FAR better as a bowler even with the big dip in form in later years.
Even Stevens in terms of dumb shit on the piss.
That writeup might be unfair, and the nightclub incident might be massively overblown.
But Ben Stokes can get in every bin in every London nightclub for the 2019 CWC Final alone.
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
That writeup might be unfair, and the nightclub incident might be massively overblown.
But Ben Stokes can get in every bin in every London nightclub for the 2019 CWC Final alone.
I think the biggest issue is they were out past a curfew that Stokes himself suggested in the first place ?
That's the bit that should be the nail. You're the captain son, getting in to night club fights after curfew is a sacking offence.
Attitude reflects leadership sir
Don't know about you guys but i outgrew the nightclub scene getting on the piss with the boys in my mid 20's
It bored me eventually.
He's 35 and the captain of one of the highest profile sports team's in the world, in a country where there are more CCTV's per sq km then anywhere else in the world that is over run with more paps then anywhere else in the world.
He only needed to knock his drink over and it would have been front page news there.
Just brainless stuff all-round.
@Virgil said in Black Caps Test Tour to England & Ireland:
Don't know about you guys but i outgrew the nightclub scene getting on the piss with the boys in my mid 20's
It bored me eventually.
He's 35 and the captain of one of the highest profile sports team's in the world, in a country where there are more CCTV's per sq km then anywhere else in the world that is over run with more paps then anywhere else in the world.
He only needed to knock his drink over and it would have been front page news there.
Just brainless stuff all-round.
Settle Gramps, Drinks with the boys is still fun. Gone from being a weekly to an annual thing these days to be fair.
I agree 100% with the rest though. The British press orgasm over this kind of shit and making sure the mud sticks.
