@Nepia said in Bulls v Highlanders:

WTF. So I just watched that now - how is that a red? African Monkey was doing his nut about it last night (but I'd missed it on my feed and couldn't be arsed getting up to go watch on TV) so I thought it would be an easy clear red. It looked like a brace for impact after he missed the ball but looked worse due to the slow mo. It only looked worse because the point of contact with the Bulls player was the chin. If he wasn't reaching for the ball it would have been a shoulder on shoulder.

The contact was probably similar to the last video - A Hurricane on Foley in Super Rugby. World Rugby has redefined the threshold - shoulder to head, even if accidental --> red UNLESS mitigation is there.

Basicaly, they are trying to stop exactly that sort of contact. RIghtly or wrongly - but bad news for Naholo

@Nepia A shoulder to the head is a straight red. It was reckless from Naholo accidental or not and he got what he deserved.

If it was a Bulls player who did it you guys would all be calling for it to be red as well.

I think that Naholo was straight red, no question. I don't care what he thought he was doing, at the last moment he decided to turn his shoulder in. If the Bulls guy had caught it, what was Naholo going to do other than a high tackle, coming in like that?

You can hardly say the ref was biased when he then not only red carded Bulls player, but stopped the likely winning try to do so.

@Chester-Draws see him turning his shoulder is more out of self preservation and bracing for impact rather than anything malice.

As I said above, harsh to get a RC, but unfortunately RC was the only outcome from shoulder to head.

Was it the Welsh tour last year he got carded, similar clumsiness (man in the air)

@African-Monkey said in Bulls v Highlanders:

@Nepia A shoulder to the head is a straight red. It was reckless from Naholo accidental or not and he got what he deserved.

If it was a Bulls player who did it you guys would all be calling for it to be red as well.

I'd really like to think I wouldn't

@booboo said in Bulls v Highlanders:

@African-Monkey said in Bulls v Highlanders:

@Nepia A shoulder to the head is a straight red. It was reckless from Naholo accidental or not and he got what he deserved.

If it was a Bulls player who did it you guys would all be calling for it to be red as well.

I'd really like to think I wouldn't

Yep, me either, as I said earlier I think it's getting stupid.

@African-Monkey I'm not even a Naholo fan, I don't like the way he plays and think he should be playing for Fiji.

@nzzp I think that TR explains the mitigation - clearly Naholo wasn't setting out to to shoulder the Bulls player, he's got his hands out for the ball. If anyone wants to claim that he was setting out to do that they're lying to themselves. Now, if WR, that fountain of wisdom want to deem that accidental clashes meet the threshold of a red card then that's up to them, I'm going to call them idiots for that.

The problem with lowering the threshold was shown later in the game. A Bulls player shouldered a Highlanders player in the head. The Highlanders player was just lying there on the ground. So the sanction for Naholo and the Bulls player was the same, even though one incident was a lot worse.

@hydro11 The suspension might be different though.

@Stargazer said in Bulls v Highlanders:

@hydro11 The suspension might be different though.

That's true. I do think some of the suspensions handed out are way too short. I'm incredibly frustrated by players meeting the red card threshold and then receiving a two week suspension.

@Nepia said in Bulls v Highlanders:
Now, if WR, that fountain of wisdom want to deem that accidental clashes meet the threshold of a red card then that's up to them, I'm going to call them idiots for that.

I think that is what they're saying. We may not like it but like the maul laws, them's the farking laws.

Be bloody careful is the answer. What was normal rugby incidents is now card material. THe effects have been talked about up north, and we've seen it with some 'interesting' kick-chase calls. Hope it doesn't affect the upcoming Lions series, but quite concerned that it will.

Just saw the incident. Looked to me like Naholo was going for the ball, saw the man in front of him and dropped his shoulder to protect himself from the impact. Split second reaction but a reckless one, so I have no issue with the red card.

Second incident was way worse though.

Naholo actually threw his shoulder into the impact, how insane do you have to be to think he was going for the ball? Sure he may have been initially but once the ball was gone he recklessly tucked the arm and threw his shoulder. He doesn't do that, he doesn't get a card. It's pretty fucking simple. But then we can't have a misguided whinge at WR....

@Bones I reckon a guy could trip over his own shoelaces and you'd make a case for a red card.

But to be serious, he was bracing for impact, protecting yourself shouldn't have the same sanction as deliberately kicking someone or lining up an actual high shoulder charge. The line in the sand from 'misguided WR' is too close.

@Nepia well what the fuck were his shoelaces doing in the way? Sounds reckless to me.

Passing off throwing the shoulder into someone's face as "bracing for impact" is pretty neat though. Sam Whitelock probably should've gone with that defence eh.

@Bones said in Bulls v Highlanders:

Passing off throwing the shoulder into someone's face as "bracing for impact" is pretty neat though. Sam Whitelock probably should've gone with that defence eh.

Pretty sure we have covered this before...if you have an inevitable contact, natural instinct is to brace yourself, for the contact, and I agree with Nepia that in that situation, his shoulder is going to minimise impact to himself (aka self preservation)

Sure it will only result in a Red Card, but when instincts often kick in with barely a thought, changing the way you react is tough.

@taniwharugby that may be the case, but isn't so in this instance. Naholo wasn't going to cop any sort of impact of great magnitude. It's being disingenuous to try and pass that off as self preservation.

@Bones will agree to disagree, if I was running into a contact, while I'd try to avoid it (which is when you are as likely to hurt yourself more) if it was coming, I'd ready myself.

As I said, the RC was inevitable, I expect we will see differing punishment form the 2 cards in that game, also reckon there was some amateur theatrics from the Bulls player he impacted too.

@taniwharugby again, that was not at all an act of self preservation. That was a reckless throw of the shoulder.

@Bones oh, right, sorry, I was wrong all along, you have shown me the error of my ways oh great messiah

Given the debate here, I went and watched it.

Assuming I watched the right incident, I can't see how anyone can see that as anything other than a red card.

That was terrible, what a fucking idiotic muppet. I'd go mental if he did that in a black jersey.

Hope I saw the right video