@Crazy-Horse said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@mimic that's was I was wondering. We have to suck it up and play at night to appease overseas viewers, why can't we have the favour returned?
Isn't evening kick off more about Sky's domestic audience?
@pakman said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
An obvious question, but I'm struggling to remember any team crossing the Indian Ocean to win a Super final. Am I missing someone?
No.
@taniwharugby said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@pakman hasnt happened, only a single team has crossed the Ta$man (travelling East to West) to do so, otherwise only NZ teams beating NZ teams in away finals.
Bulls beat Shatks in Durban (2007 according to @Stargazer )
Match Officials Announced for 2017
Super Rugby Final
SANZAAR has announced the match official appointments for the Super Rugby final on Saturday 5 August at Emirates Airlines Park, Johannesburg, between the Lions and Crusaders #LIOvCRU.
The match referee will be Jaco Peyper who refereed the semi-final between the Lions and Hurricanes. The assistant referees will be Glen Jackson, who refereed the Crusaders versus Chiefs semi-final and Marius van der Westhuizen. The Television Match Official (TMO) is Marius Jonker. The match kicks-off in Johannesburg at 1600 local time.
@KiwiMurph That's dreadful. Jonker shouldn't be employed as a TMO, that role should have gone to Ayoub (I feel dirty suggesting that). And there's no way vdW should be there instead of Gardner. Then they need to scan the crowd for someone only slightly inebriated to get a better AR than Jackson.
Given the appointments last week (and hearing earlier that Gardner had been named to ref club rugby in Sydny this weekend) I was expecting those appointments.
Still doesn't make it any less of a joke.
And this is SANZAAR's reasoning. What a joke.
MATCH OFFICIALS ANNOUNCED FOR 2017 FINAL
SANZAAR has announced the match official appointments for the Super Rugby final on Saturday 5 August at Emirates Airlines Park, Johannesburg, between the Lions and Crusaders #LIOvCRU.
The match referee will be Jaco Peyper who refereed the semi-final between the Lions and Hurricanes. The assistant referees will be Glen Jackson, who refereed the Crusaders versus Chiefs semi-final and Marius van der Westhuizen. The Television Match Official (TMO) is Marius Jonker. The match kicks-off in Johannesburg at 1600 local time.
Commenting on the appointments, SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos said, “SANZAAR congratulates Jaco Peyper and all the match officials selected to this year’s final. The match official selection is never easy as we have a very dedicated group of officials who week in week out perform very professionally and to very high standards.”
“The selection criteria for all match official appointments for the last two years follows a clear tournament policy - as agreed by the SANZAAR Executive Committee and the tournament’s stakeholders – that such appointments be merit-based.”
“This policy is written into the tournament protocols and appointments are made according to this policy on a weekly basis and is also the policy used for the finals last year as well as this year.”
“This merit-based policy was reflected with the appointment last year of New Zealand referee Glen Jackson to referee the Hurricanes versus Lions final in Wellington. SANZAAR stands behind the policy and believes the best referees should be available to officiate the best matches,” added Marinos.
Apologies for going off topic but @booboo I thought it had as much to do about the international audience? If I am wrong and it is for domestic purposes, I say fuck that and give us more day time games. It seems like the players aren't being given the best conditions to excel in. I know it is a different scenario to Super rugby, but maybe a few more of those passes would have stuck in the third BIL test if it was played in the day time.
@Crazy-Horse said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Apologies for going off topic but @booboo I thought it had as much to do about the international audience? If I am wrong and it is for domestic purposes, I say fuck that and give us more day time games. It seems like the players aren't being given the best conditions to excel in. I know it is a different scenario to Super rugby, but maybe a few more of those passes would have stuck in the third BIL test if it was played in the day time.
It's all about money.
We want Super Rugby the trade off is the majority of games get played 7.30.
It's been reported on numerous occasions and stated by people like Tew that Sky pay more (apparently significantly so) to have the gsmes in prime time.
Jack is a reasonable ref.
But just for appearances sake surely you go with Gardner who at the very least is as capable and has the added bonus of not being from either of the countries involved.
Another thing. Jaco will no doubt be aware of the criticism and the suggestion that he's not neutral. Wouldn't that be a good motivation for him to try to be as neutral & good as he can be this Saturday? Unless he's really biased, of course. I have more of an issue with vdW and Jonker, although they are still better than van Heerden and Veld (remember that Blues game in SA).
Having said that, I find it incomprehensible that they use the argument that Jackson was the ref last year in Wellington to justify the appointment of Peyper. Two wrongs don't make things right. You should always go for the most neutral ref if there is a good & suitable one available, in this case Gardner.
Anyway, I think the travel factor & altitude will be a more important reason for a possible Crusaders' loss, than the refs.
@Stargazer said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
I have more of an issue with vdW and Jonker,
Bonkers Jonker. Really? For a "super" final?
Is the reward for being a shit ref a comfy chair and making decisions while watching tele? I would qualify (as did Ayoub).
I'm going to apply.
@mariner4life said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
who the fuck physically lines up for tickets?
The online ticketing agent Computicket.co.za gets given the bulk of the tickets to sell, but a few are also held by the stadium. The the guys queuing up most likely had already checked online and seen it was sold out. Its always just been this way in S.A for some reason.
@booboo said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
Jack is a reasonable ref.
But just for appearances sake surely you go with Gardner who at the very least is as capable and has the added bonus of not being from either of the countries involved.
The appointments smack of SANZAAR being arrogant or incompetent or both
@mimic said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
That's great, the only non south African ref is a hometown ref..
RiP Crusaders
Someone's done a deal there
This is good for the Crusaders. Peyper is not a hometown ref IMO, and following last week if anything he will overcompensate to prove he isn't one.
Also Peyper grew up in Bloemfontein and went to Grey College. There is every chance he grew up with as much loyalty to the Lions as a Crusaders fan would for the Blues. He isn't going to blow his international career over a relatively unimportant fixture like this.
Probably should have had a neutral or NZ TMO from an optics stand point.
I like Peyper as a referee, I think he's excellent and anything but partisan. He's prone to the odd crap decision, but that's just the game of rugby being incredibly hard to referee. Gardner would have made more sense, but Peyper is still the choice I expected and think is an OK choice. I don't get the hate for Marius vdW, I think he's been very good this year (and the last, I believe).
Yeah I like how Peyper manages a game, probably in the top 3 going around IMO. I agree with SANZAR that it's merit based because he's an excellent ref. Congrats to him.
Jack O'Piper is a good ref and communicates well. I'm sure he won't be consciously biased. And all refs tend to favour the home team. I'd have preferred Gardner, who I rate a notch above Glen (Ireland's favourite ref).
The bigger issue is the TMO, and, in particular, who controls the replays which are chosen. IMHO that is where the most heinous bias is shown. I'm recalling Messam tackle, which Burger did not complain about real time, but TV replays forced ref to come back to after the event.
What pisses me off is where was this merit based ref selection during the Lions series? Instead of having a guy like Nigel Owens in charge we get those french fucks because they are "neutral".
I understand it's SANZAAR vs WR but some consistency wouldn't hurt.
SuperSports analysis on lineout and mauls
Unchanged Lions squad for the final:
1 Jacques van Rooyen
2 Malcolm Marx
3 Ruan Dreyer
4 Andries Ferreira
5 Franco Mostert
6 Jaco Kriel 
7 Albertus “Kwagga” Smith
8 Ruan Ackermann
9 Ross Cronje
10 Elton Jantjies
11 Courtnall Skosan
12 Harold Vorster
13 Lionel Mapoe
14 Ruan Combrinck
15 Andries Coetzee
Reserves
16 Akker vd Merwe
17 Corne Fourie
18 Johannes Jonker
19 Lourens Erasmus
20 Cyle Brink
21 Faf de Klerk
22 Rohan Janse van Re
23 Sylvian Mahuza
Am i missing something here, these guys keep on talking about sacking is tackling 1 player. But the maul laws is about tackling the ball carrier, whether the maul is set or not if the ball player is tackled its within the law
Razor has also named an unchanged squad.
This is the Crusaders team for the final:
1 Joe Moody
2 Codie Taylor
3 Owen Franks
4 Scott Barrett
5 Sam Whitelock (C)
6 Jordan Taufua
7 Matt Todd (VC)
8 Kieran Read
9 Bryn Hall
10 Richie Mo'unga
11 Seta Tamanivalu
12 Ryan Crotty (VC)
13 Jack Goodhue
14 Israel Dagg
15 David Havili
RESERVES
16 Ben Funnell
17 Wyatt Crockett
18 Michael Alaalatoa
19 Luke Romano
20 Pete Samu
21 Mitchell Drummond
22 Mitchell Hunt
23 George Bridge
@Stargazer it's amazing to think that he's coached a side to the top of the comp. He comes across as a lanky laid back surfer who's coaching a social pub side, co-sponsored by the local hemp store and KFC.
Seems a really good coach though, and the pros love him just as much as the schoolboys.
Podcast: Sumo & Mils
@Rebound said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
And the laws of the game does not clarify collapsing of the maul at all
Because you aren't collapsing a maul, you're tackling the ball carrier. Given the definition of a maul requires the ball carrier to be held by an opposition player, if you immediately tackle him, he isn't held.
Who remembers the first Super Rugby 10 final? I was 16. English and Afrikaans commentating.
Loved how the crowd counts when Grant Fox takes his kick. So much memories that day.
@antipodean I saw something on TV today saying that no Crusader fans would likely have been unable to get to go to watch this game (unless they anticipated this game weeks ago) as it takes about a month for a SA Visa at present
@taniwharugby Lots of Crusaders fans already in SA!
@taniwharugby said in Lions v Crusaders - Super Rugby Final:
@antipodean I saw something on TV today saying that no Crusader fans would likely have been unable to get to go to watch this game (unless they anticipated this game weeks ago) as it takes about a month for a SA Visa at present
That's really shit.
