In light of the injury situation, coach Umaga will name his reserves after training.

The team is:

1. Pauliasi Manu, 2. James Parsons , 3. Sione Mafileo, 4. Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, 5. Josh Goodhue, 6. Jimmy Tupou, 7. Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii, 8. Akira Ioane; 9. Augustine Pulu or Jonathan Ruru, 10. Stephen Perofeta, 11. Tumua Manu, 12. Rieko Ioane, 13. Orbyn Leger, 14. Jordan Hyland, 15. Matt Duffie.

thought Goodhue was gonna be out for several weeks?

Rieko back to 12....

So if Pulu is back, does he take back the Captaincy?

Again, Ioane and Leger are the wrong way around.

If Pryor is fit to go, we should start Papalii at 6.

@taniwharugby They forgot to take him off the injury list.

Injured players: Otere Black (knee – season), Blake Gibson (shoulder), Glenn Preston (groin, season), Sonny Bill Williams (wrist), Alex Hodgman (wrist), Scott Scrafton (leg – season), Daniel Kirkpatrick (ribs), Melani Nanai (ankle), Matt Johnson (surgery – season), Jerome Kaino (hamstring), George Moala (chest – season), TJ Faiane (ankle), Josh Goodhue (shoulder), Tamati Tua (hand), Caleb Clarke (appendicitis), Michael Collins (hand), Ofa Tuungafasi (knee). All Black stand-down: Patrick Tuipulotu (illness),

Rieko shows some form out wide so super coach puts him back at 12 as fast as possible.

So both Ioane brothers still need 2 AB stand-down matches off out of those coming against Waratahs, Hurricanes, Crusaders and Rebels, and Tu'ipolutu one more?

What is Tuipulotu's illness? Not bloody mumps I hope!

FFS i thought Pulu was dropped due to general shitness.

JAGUARES: 1-Santiago García Botta, 2-Agustín Creevy, 3-Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 4-Guido Petti, 5-Matías Alemanno, 6- Javier Ortega Desio, 7-Marcos Kremer, 8- Leonardo Senatore, 9-Martín Landajo, 10-Nicolás Sanchez, 11- Emiliano Boffelli, 12-Jerónimo de la Fuente , 13-Matías Orlando, 14- Bautista Delguy, 15- Joaquín Tuculet (c).

Suplentes: 16-Julián Montoya, 17-Javier Díaz, 18-Juan Pablo Zeiss, 19- Tomás Lavanini, 20- Tomás Lezana, 21-Gonzalo Bertranou, 22-Bautista Ezcurra, 23-Sebastián Cancelliere

@stargazer

No Matera?

@arhs said in Blues v Jaguares:

@stargazer

No Matera?

No, he suffered a shoulder injury during the game against the Brumbies. He and Moyano (head knock) have returned to Argentina.

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

Rieko shows some form out wide so super coach puts him back at 12 as fast as possible.

I know it's put the boot in time, but this one looks like it was forced by necessity - the Blues just don't have any midfielders left do they?

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

Rieko shows some form out wide so super coach puts him back at 12 as fast as possible.

I know it's put the boot in time, but this one looks like it was forced by necessity - the Blues just don't have any midfielders left do they?

If your hand is forced, why not play Leger at 12 (you know, his position) and the winger at 13 so he can make an outside break or two? He tried Rieko at 12 and it hasn't worked.

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

Rieko shows some form out wide so super coach puts him back at 12 as fast as possible.

I know it's put the boot in time, but this one looks like it was forced by necessity - the Blues just don't have any midfielders left do they?

If your hand is forced, why not play Leger at 12 and the winger at 13 so he can make an outside break or two? He tried Rieko at 12 and it hasn't worked.

I agree he seems more of a natural centre to me, but my point was he was likely moved to the midfield due to necessity regardless of where he plays in the midfield.

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

@nepia said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

Rieko shows some form out wide so super coach puts him back at 12 as fast as possible.

I know it's put the boot in time, but this one looks like it was forced by necessity - the Blues just don't have any midfielders left do they?

If your hand is forced, why not play Leger at 12 and the winger at 13 so he can make an outside break or two? He tried Rieko at 12 and it hasn't worked.

I agree he seems more of a natural centre to me, but my point was he was likely moved to the midfield due to necessity regardless of where he plays in the midfield.

Let me put it this way, he's down to two players fit and healthy for the midfield and has managed to pick BOTH out of position.

The thing is that Tana played at 2nd 5, centre and on the wing so he should have a good appreciation of the skillsets required for each position.

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

The thing is that Tana played at 2nd 5, centre and on the wing so he should have a good appreciation of the skillsets required for each position.

Just because you were a great player doesn't mean you are a great selector or coach. So I will highlight your use of the word "should" and point you at the Blues record over the past three years.

I'm probably going along again.

< sigh >

FML

Hmmm if the Jaguares play anywhere near their best I feel they win comfortably but they are very inconsistent. Hard game to pick but with the way both teams have been going I'm leaning towards the Jaguares in a close one.

I thought it may be interesting with all the injuries to compare this team to a pre-season hope for 'best XV'

@tim said in Blues 2018:

1 Pauliasi Manu
2 James Parsons
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi Sione Mafileo
4 Patrick Tuipulotu Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
5 Scott Scrafton Josh Goodhue
6 Jerome Kaino Jimmy Tupou
7 Blake Gibson Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii
8 Akira Ioane

9 Augustine Pulu (or Jonathan Ruru)
10 Bryn Gatland/Otere Black Stephen Perofeta
11 Melani Nanai Tumua Manu
12 SBW Rieko Ioane
13 Rieko Ioane Orbyn Leger
14 Matt Duffie Jordan Hyland
15 Stephen Perofeta Matt Duffie

16 Matt Moulds
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Mike Tamoaieta
19 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
20 Dalton Papali'i/Kara Pryor
21 Manihera/Liavaa-Moala/Jimmy Tupou

22 Sam Nock
23 George Moala/TJ Faiane/Matt Vaega

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Tana’s recruitment is as poor as his selections/coaching. So when the envitable injuries occur his squad depth is exposed.

Not to mention the comparison of green squad members between the Chiefs and Blues is marked.

Yes we are having a bad run of injuries. No it’s not an excuse for Tanas results.

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

I thought it may be interesting with all the injuries to compare this team to a pre-season hope for 'best XV'

@tim said in Blues 2018:

1 Pauliasi Manu
2 James Parsons
3 Ofa Tu'ungafasi Sione Mafileo
4 Patrick Tuipulotu Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
5 Scott Scrafton Josh Goodhue
6 Jerome Kaino Jimmy Tupou
7 Blake Gibson Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii
8 Akira Ioane

9 Augustine Pulu (or Jonathan Ruru)
10 Bryn Gatland/Otere Black Stephen Perofeta
11 Melani Nanai Tumua Manu
12 SBW Rieko Ioane
13 Rieko Ioane Orbyn Leger
14 Matt Duffie Jordan Hyland
15 Stephen Perofeta Matt Duffie

16 Matt Moulds
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Mike Tamoaieta
19 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
20 Dalton Papali'i/Kara Pryor
21 Manihera/Liavaa-Moala/Jimmy Tupou

22 Sam Nock
23 George Moala/TJ Faiane/Matt Vaega

Careful. You'll be accused of being a Counties supporter ... oh ... hang on ...

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Actually that would be a worthwhile exercise.

Especially in specific positions where we're at 3rd or 4th choice starting (prop).

@booboo said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan said in Blues v Jaguares:

It’s more interesting to compare how the Chiefs, or any other team for that matter, handle injuries during the season.

Actually that would be a worthwhile exercise.

Especially in specific positions where we're at 3rd or 4th choice starting (prop).

I remember the commentary mentioning one of the wings too. It was very noticeable that he was up to speed on attack patterns being used and didn’t look “lost” or play like an individual like a new player in the Blues.

That’s down to coaching.

The newspaper is saying Tupou injured his knee at training yesterday so Papali'i will start at 6.

@bovidae said in Blues v Jaguares:

The newspaper is saying Tupou injured his knee at training yesterday so Papali'i will start at 6.

So I think this is the side with the late Tupou injury:

1 Pauliasi Manu, 2 James Parsons (c), 3 Sione Mafileo, 4 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, 5 Josh Goodhue, 6 Jimmy Tupou Dalton Papalii, 7 Kara Pryor or Dalton Papalii, 8 Akira Ioane; 9 Jonathan Ruru, 10 Stephen Perofeta, 11 Tumua Manu, 12 Rieko Ioane, 13 Orbyn Leger, 14 Jordan Hyland,15 Matt Duffie
Reserves: 16 Leni Apisai, 17 Ross Wright, 18 Mike Tamoaieta, 19 Ben Nee-Nee, 20 Lyndon Dunshea, 21 Augustine Pulu, 22 Dan Kirkpatrick, 23 Terrence Hepetema

It's a better backrow without Tupou

@bovidae yep and the Blues bench is confirmed as

Apisai, Wright, Tamoaieta, Neenee, Dunshea, Pulu, Kirkpatrick, Hepetema.

@kiwimurph MOulds injured again or dropped for Apisai???

Bet Tamati Tua is pissed he hurt himself so early in this season!

I assume Kirkpatrick was picked ahead of Gatland as he could play 2nd 5 if needed (not very well, of course).

@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:

MOulds injured again or dropped for Apisai???

Impossible to tell because the information coming out of the Blues is so shit. Two players listed as unavailable are in the 23

Blues team release yesterday indicated Apisai got selected on form after a strong game for Blues A last week.

@kiwimurph guess it shouldnt surprise, but a guy that has been found wanting everytime he has played for the 'top' team, gets promoted over a guy who has come back from injury and had SFA time off the bench and not really done alot wrong...

amusingly, not good enough for the bench, Moulds has not even been released for club footy.

@kirwan Listened John Hart on radio sport this morning,one thing that he said which I said from the time this squad was announced in November 2017 it was easily the weakest of the 5 squads based on the limited amount of movement of the other four franchises.
Only the Chiefs with the loss of Aaron Cruden,James Lowes and Micheal Leitch were gonna be hit the hardest but is been a credit to them despite losing 6 x props and several others they have battled away manfully.
But at least despite the injures,they have retained senior players like Cane,Retallick,Messiam and Ngatai.

To me that’s one of the fundamentals where the Blues have totally missed the boat in terms of their selections..once the leadership group got injured,Pulu,Kaino and SBW and I will also add Blake Gibson into that group the wheels have slowly fallen off.
Add in the injuries to what already not the strongest squad of the five,and this is what you get.

Looking at the attrition rate in this competition,I believe it’s doubly important to select your squad with injuries in mind especially if your are thin on leadership and to me,this is one of the biggest failings of this coaching panel.
I asked the question of high performance manager Tony Hanks late last year when Stephen Luatua and Charlie Famauina left the Blues,was there a train of thought to chase 2 like for like players with experience,I even threw a couple names out there like a Blade Thomson or a Michell Graham..?;not totally sure about Graham,I think he maybe a loose head..
Hanks just said,you will be surprised with what we will dish up with squad..!,Really..!,even I could see they were thin if injuries occurred.

So I guess...SHOULD WE REALLY BE THAT SURPRISED AT WHATS HAPPENING ...?,I for one am not.

@steven-harris said in Blues v Jaguares:

@kirwan Listened John Hart on radio sport this morning,one thing that he said which I said from the time this squad was announced in November 2017 it was easily the weakest of the 5 squads based on the limited amount of movement of the other four franchises.
Only the Chiefs with the loss of Aaron Cruden,James Lowes and Micheal Leitch were gonna be hit the hardest but is been a credit to them despite losing 6 x props and several others they have battled away manfully.
But at least despite the injures,they have retained senior players like Cane,Retallick,Messiam and Ngatai.

To me that’s one of the fundamentals where the Blues have totally missed the boat in terms of their selections..once the leadership group got injured,Pulu,Kaino and SBW and I will also add Blake Gibson into that group the wheels have slowly fallen off.
Add in the injuries to what already not the strongest squad of the five,and this is what you get.

Looking at the attrition rate in this competition,I believe it’s doubly important to select your squad with injuries in mind especially if your are thin on leadership and to me,this is one of the biggest failings of this coaching panel.
I asked the question of high performance manager Tony Hanks late last year when Stephen Luatua and Charlie Famauina left the Blues,was there a train of thought to chase 2 like for like players with experience,I even threw a couple names out there like a Blade Thomson or a Michell Graham..?;not totally sure about Graham,I think he maybe a loose head..
Hanks just said,you will be surprised with what we will dish up with squad..!,Really..!,even I could see they were thin if injuries occurred.

So I guess...SHOULD WE REALLY BE THAT SURPRISED AT WHATS HAPPENING ...?,I for one am not.

Despite the accusations above, my post was not to make excuses for performance. It was an exercise to see the injury effect on the makeup of the team and raise discussion on that.
Thanks @Steven-Harris, your post did just that.
To me the big issue (as far as team makeup goes) is that the leadership required to drag this franchise up has not been available or effective and that the injuries have removed any spine the team could develop. There has been almost zero ability to select a consistent 2,4,8,9,10,15 or even segments of that. That will hurt a team badly.
By the way, that is a reason, not an excuse.
For those comparisons with the Chiefs see the Chiefs thread where I have compared a pre-season selection in the same way. The massive difference is that the Chiefs have been able to rely on some world class experienced leaders to oull them through games. Cane, Messam, BBBR have, when required, stepped up hugely to create surprise wins. The Blues (apart from an injured Kaino and possibly an injured SBW) have really suffered from not having that type of player. Unfortunately you cant recruit that type, you have to grow them.

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

my post was not to make excuses for performance

Haha bullshit

@crucial not sure the leadership is upto it even if all were on board.

@taniwharugby said in Blues v Jaguares:

@crucial not sure the leadership is upto it even if all were on board.

That's what I said. There was only ever going to be a fit and firing Kaino (and maybe SBW) that would be in the same league as Cane, Messam and BBBR

Just for illustration, if Joe Schmidt went back he'd rebuild the Blues from the ground up. Lot's of more obvious factors at play, as commented on, but for me the core is rotten.

@duluth said in Blues v Jaguares:

@crucial said in Blues v Jaguares:

my post was not to make excuses for performance

Haha bullshit

Whatever. I deliberately didn't make comment when I posted the list as I thought it would divert any sensible discussion straight to criticising my opinion instead. But hey, if you think you know what was in my mind when posting better than I do, go ahead and fire a blank

@crucial

Post after post making excuses for Umaga. You have been mocked plenty of times for your knight in shining armour act.

Now you have a genius plan. Say "I'm not making excuses" before making excuses. It's funny.