@pukunui said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@booboo said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@taniwharugby said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

maybe lacked a bit of big game experience at crucial

Crusaders deserved to win

Jaguares were the better team

Crusaders were functional and did enough to win & were clinical when they got a chance

Somewhat self contradictory post.

Perhaps understandable in the circumstances

Two things can be right at the same time Doesn't have to a binary choice

Crusaders deserved to win but Jaguares were the better team

Rarely happens but then I'm not a box score scout who just looks at the final whistle score

This is great stuff. Means the Canes were the better team last weekend. Will there be a parade down Lambton Quay ? Hope so.

But but but the Jags were simultaneously the best and second best team in the comp! The artificially modified competition ladder says so. Competition points and actual scoreboard points mean nothing!

I know.....and don’t get me started on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of time

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

arted on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of tim

I'm trying to educate a mostly Kiwi crowd here about the ARG mentality

There been at times an indifference to most Int'l games especially Summer test matches & EOYT to Europe

ARG is unique in having a diabolical travelling schedule and a shallow playing

Add Bad coaching and Management at UAR level & you have a cocktail for disaster

This has only been reversed in last 18 months with Ledesma & Quesada

RWC and Improvements in TRC are the criteria in which ARG measure itself

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies
This country beating that country in 2017 means fuck all in 2019

Rugby runs on 4 year cycles I couldn't give a fuck about most Pumas games from 2016-19

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

arted on all the meaningless friendlies that International rugby teams play. What a waste of tim

I'm trying to educate a mostly Kiwi crowd here about the ARG mentality

There been at times an indifference to most Int'l games especially Summer test matches & EOYT to Europe

ARG is unique in having a diabolical travelling schedule and a shallow playing

Add Bad coaching and Management at UAR level & you have a cocktail for disaster

This has only been reversed in last 18 months with Ledesma & Quesada

RWC and Improvements in TRC are the criteria in which ARG measure itself

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies
This country beating that country in 2017 means fuck all in 2019

Rugby runs on 4 year cycles I couldn't give a fuck about most Pumas games from 2016-19

If that is reflective of the Argentine attitude then that may be why they're not improving.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Test matches they may be called but that's a fancy word for friendlies

Conversely friendlies is a stupid word for test matches.

There is nothing friendly about them as most players would attest.

@booboo

It reflective to a degree but it should be based in context

You've got to cut your cloth accordingly

The big thing in ARG is increase their playing pool

There was a Jaguares XV playing CC rugby in SA and played & won their 1st game yesterday

Thar side was comprised of fringe Jaguares and a bunch of U20 players

Another thing going ARG way is the continuing decimation of SA NZ & AUS SR teams as their players to Europe & Japan

This will make ARG even stronger as their competitors in SANZAAR get hollowed out

NZ is insulted by its player pool but their SR sides will be weaker nonetheless with 1 or 2 exceptions

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

@ACT-Crusader said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@MajorRage said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I would have supported the Jaguares today if not for you. I doubt I’m alone.

I would’ve supported the Jags if they were playing an Aussie team or South African side or the Chiefs

In that case... can we have our coach back then? I’d like to see a breakdance at Tauranga Domain...

@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

Once again home advantage is also a major difference. I think every play-off game this year was won by the home team?

Past few years there has been a slight bucking of the trend that it's beyond difficult to win a play-off game outside your country, with the slanted competition structure meaning some significantly stronger NZ teams have had to travel to Oz/SA and have won.

Jags would have been tough to beat in BA, but they largely lost this final in the first month or so of the competition.

@Chris-B The Chiefs almost rolled the Jaguares in the quarter final. And NZ teams in general have not struggled in Argentina.

So I don't think shifting venues would have made much difference.

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

@Chester-Draws said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

Yep - that's certainly part of the equation - or, at least, it's supposed to be.

@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

That's because that was the best team vs the second best, not the best team vs a team there because of broadcasting deals in SA (tho it didn't work out too well for SA this year!)

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game. All the one eyed cantabs crowing about 'look at the scoreboard' are not showing an ounce of respect to a good opponent. By that logic, 2007 France and 2017 Lions were the better side, and deserved everything they got.

While another title is impressive, the Canterbury machine may be creaking at the edges a bit. Losing the Mitre 10 final last year to a bunch of colts, losing away to the Tahs, drawing at home against that Saffer side, and then looking vulnerable through the playoffs ... best tight five in the comp by a mile, but outside that it's been looking a bit more average. Well done and all that, but there's some future bits that are worth watching

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order... will keep Razor busy I'm sure.

@nzzp

Point of order!

I'm not a one eyed Cantab.

As for 2017 Lions. They weren't the better team it was a draw.

As for 2007 France, leaving aside the 16* points gifted to them by the officials, by definition yes they were the better team. By 20-18. Did what they had to do to walk off in front.

And you're right. It was a great game of footy. Most enjoyable.

Hairy Worries were good. Saders were better.

*think it was 16 by my reckoning, 3 penalties either awarded or not awarded, plus that try with two forward passes. My anger must have diminished post 11 & 15 as it's not so clear and glaring in my mind anymore.

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

What, no mention of Phil Kearns? Nor a long list of ambiguous, newly discovered emoji? Disappointing.

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

Woah, that went dark very quickly

Edit ... that previously unused emoji is for your benefit @Bones

@sparky said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

It ain't over until Razor dances...

View embedded content

If ABs threepeat, could Hanson step up to plate?

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

@Chester-Draws said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Chris-B The Chiefs almost rolled the Jaguares in the quarter final. And NZ teams in general have not struggled in Argentina.

So I don't think shifting venues would have made much difference.

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

Unless they are from Australia

Or south Africa

@nzzp said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game.

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order...

You're wasting your time with the more myopic guys on the thread The Cantab crew & their cheerleaders struggle with nuance at times and like to look at the final score

Crusaders pack will be much weaker next year but their backline has a good age profile

They will be formidable next year but this likely the peak of the Crusaders for a while

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

look at the final score

generally a good indicator to find the winner! :thumbs_up:

The Jaguares played well, and were deserving of thier spot and can be proud of the gains they have made the past few years, but they were found wanting, as I said earlier, possibly lacking a bit of big game experience, no shame in that, they will be the better for it.

@Jaguares4real maybe not as weak as some think they have recruited very well for 2020
Just not media released as yet

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

I thought the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with the crusaders ,

But it had a similar feel to it , with our usual attacking game style being nullified somewhat ,

Hopefully Hansen has come up with something

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Actually apart from @Virgil getting your/you’re confused the standard is exemplary. Great stuff everyone.

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

@kiwiinmelb said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ght the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with

@Crazy-Horse onto something

The Crusaders being gifted their only try by Moroni joining a maul that was going nowhere for Jaguares was utter stupidity Nothing was to be gained from his presence there

if he stays on his wing, no try can be scored

Outside of a 3-4 min spell in 50 min Crusaders never looked like scoring

Their attack was blunted as they struggled to get around Jaguares defence

Crusaders were able to use their scrum to win penalties and relive pressure Without that the game may have had a different outcome
Also the Lineout was shaky losing 2 of their 6 throws

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

He's from Eastbourne and now lives somewhere posh in England. He's to the Manor born.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game.

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order...

You're wasting your time with the more myopic guys on the thread The Cantab crew & their cheerleaders struggle with nuance at times and like to look at the final score

Crusaders pack will be much weaker next year but their backline has a good age profile

They will be formidable next year but this likely the peak of the Crusaders for a while

Next year is our year.

You might be right Hairyarses4real. But this year the Evil Empire were demonstrably the better side.

Hang around though. Your stopped clock trolling might come right and you can nyah nyah nyah us.

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

Why? Nobody else has...

Although admittedly most of us can use the quote function effectively...

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

They had another try scoring opportunity when they used the gambit of kicking for touch and then tapped and drove over the line. but the ball got planted on an Argie leg. Could have had a few more if they'd kicked penalties to touch or scrummed - but, the right decision was to collect three points and stretch the lead.

I've not seen any team yet develop a fool-proof counter to the rush defence. It seems to be a combination of accurately combining variations of short/inside passes, chip kicks and wide kicks to the wing - to stretch the defending teams' resources.

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

Yeah, but the Saders found ways to score. Rush D? 19-3.

Up here (points at head) for thinking.

Down there (points at feet) for dancing.

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Well we did get rid of Bartman, leyton and Red Beard. @kiwiinmelb will be next if he doesn’t fix the space before comma nonsense

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@kiwiinmelb said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ght the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with

@Crazy-Horse onto something

The Crusaders being gifted their only try by Moroni joining a maul that was going nowhere for Jaguares was utter stupidity Nothing was to be gained from his presence there

if he stays on his wing, no try can be scored

Outside of a 3-4 min spell in 50 min Crusaders never looked like scoring

Their attack was blunted as they struggled to get around Jaguares defence

Crusaders were able to use their scrum to win penalties and relive pressure Without that the game may have had a different outcome
Also the Lineout was shaky losing 2 of their 6 throws

I don’t know why im bothering to engage but since we are rewriting history. Do you think that maybe if the Crusaders had chosen to kick to the corner or taken the scrum instead of kicking for goal and you know, actually scoring points and winning the game, they may have “looked like scoring” ?

The better team doesn’t get beaten 19-3.
To suggest the Jags were the better team because things maybe, potentially, possibly, could have been different if they didn’t blow all their chances, “gift” the crusaders a try, have a 10 who lost the plot or give away multiple kickable penalties is straight up fantasy.

Don’t count your chickens for your future success just yet. The Lions are still waiting for their first GF win.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

Where did I say anything about English? There's that comprehension failing you again. In line with your posts on rugby though eh, so not surprising.