@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

Once again home advantage is also a major difference. I think every play-off game this year was won by the home team?

Past few years there has been a slight bucking of the trend that it's beyond difficult to win a play-off game outside your country, with the slanted competition structure meaning some significantly stronger NZ teams have had to travel to Oz/SA and have won.

Jags would have been tough to beat in BA, but they largely lost this final in the first month or so of the competition.

@Chris-B The Chiefs almost rolled the Jaguares in the quarter final. And NZ teams in general have not struggled in Argentina.

So I don't think shifting venues would have made much difference.

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

@Chester-Draws said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

Yep - that's certainly part of the equation - or, at least, it's supposed to be.

@Siam said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

And once again, finals experience is a major difference.

Committed defence, a gun kicking game and actually all things considered a pretty comfortable win with it all wrapped up with 10 minutes to go.

No where near as competitive or captivating as the canes semi final.

That's because that was the best team vs the second best, not the best team vs a team there because of broadcasting deals in SA (tho it didn't work out too well for SA this year!)

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game. All the one eyed cantabs crowing about 'look at the scoreboard' are not showing an ounce of respect to a good opponent. By that logic, 2007 France and 2017 Lions were the better side, and deserved everything they got.

While another title is impressive, the Canterbury machine may be creaking at the edges a bit. Losing the Mitre 10 final last year to a bunch of colts, losing away to the Tahs, drawing at home against that Saffer side, and then looking vulnerable through the playoffs ... best tight five in the comp by a mile, but outside that it's been looking a bit more average. Well done and all that, but there's some future bits that are worth watching

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order... will keep Razor busy I'm sure.

@nzzp

Point of order!

I'm not a one eyed Cantab.

As for 2017 Lions. They weren't the better team it was a draw.

As for 2007 France, leaving aside the 16* points gifted to them by the officials, by definition yes they were the better team. By 20-18. Did what they had to do to walk off in front.

And you're right. It was a great game of footy. Most enjoyable.

Hairy Worries were good. Saders were better.

*think it was 16 by my reckoning, 3 penalties either awarded or not awarded, plus that try with two forward passes. My anger must have diminished post 11 & 15 as it's not so clear and glaring in my mind anymore.

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

What, no mention of Phil Kearns? Nor a long list of ambiguous, newly discovered emoji? Disappointing.

@MN5 said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp please pipe down, a non Argentinian is educating NZ fans about the Argentinian mindset. It's gas.

Also that the better team usually loses Rugby games, it doesn't matter cos they're mostly all friendlies anyway and it's ok to beat your wife cos lots of people in other professions do it.

Woah, that went dark very quickly

Edit ... that previously unused emoji is for your benefit @Bones

@sparky said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

It ain't over until Razor dances...

View embedded content

If ABs threepeat, could Hanson step up to plate?

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

@Chester-Draws said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Chris-B The Chiefs almost rolled the Jaguares in the quarter final. And NZ teams in general have not struggled in Argentina.

So I don't think shifting venues would have made much difference.

Home teams tend to win the play off games because they are the better teams.

Unless they are from Australia

Or south Africa

@nzzp said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game.

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order...

You're wasting your time with the more myopic guys on the thread The Cantab crew & their cheerleaders struggle with nuance at times and like to look at the final score

Crusaders pack will be much weaker next year but their backline has a good age profile

They will be formidable next year but this likely the peak of the Crusaders for a while

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

look at the final score

generally a good indicator to find the winner! :thumbs_up:

The Jaguares played well, and were deserving of thier spot and can be proud of the gains they have made the past few years, but they were found wanting, as I said earlier, possibly lacking a bit of big game experience, no shame in that, they will be the better for it.

@Jaguares4real maybe not as weak as some think they have recruited very well for 2020
Just not media released as yet

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

I thought the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with the crusaders ,

But it had a similar feel to it , with our usual attacking game style being nullified somewhat ,

Hopefully Hansen has come up with something

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Actually apart from @Virgil getting your/you’re confused the standard is exemplary. Great stuff everyone.

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

@kiwiinmelb said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ght the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with

@Crazy-Horse onto something

The Crusaders being gifted their only try by Moroni joining a maul that was going nowhere for Jaguares was utter stupidity Nothing was to be gained from his presence there

if he stays on his wing, no try can be scored

Outside of a 3-4 min spell in 50 min Crusaders never looked like scoring

Their attack was blunted as they struggled to get around Jaguares defence

Crusaders were able to use their scrum to win penalties and relive pressure Without that the game may have had a different outcome
Also the Lineout was shaky losing 2 of their 6 throws

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

He's from Eastbourne and now lives somewhere posh in England. He's to the Manor born.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@nzzp said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

Piling in quite late to this.

You guys are are a bit sensitive to @Jaguares4real . He may be over=egging slightly, but that Jags side can go home feeling like they gave that a real crack. Some magic back play, the lines in midfield were amazing; they found space against a really good Crusaders defence. Looked creative and hard working, they have a bright future.

It was a cracking game of rugby, not expansive, but really tasty to watch. As always, fine margins; the scoreline most certainly did not reflect the intensity or evenness of the game.

Will be interesting to see how they cope with losing Franks, Whitelock, Todd up front next season. That's a hell of a lot of talent to replace in short order...

You're wasting your time with the more myopic guys on the thread The Cantab crew & their cheerleaders struggle with nuance at times and like to look at the final score

Crusaders pack will be much weaker next year but their backline has a good age profile

They will be formidable next year but this likely the peak of the Crusaders for a while

Next year is our year.

You might be right Hairyarses4real. But this year the Evil Empire were demonstrably the better side.

Hang around though. Your stopped clock trolling might come right and you can nyah nyah nyah us.

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

Why? Nobody else has...

Although admittedly most of us can use the quote function effectively...

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

They had another try scoring opportunity when they used the gambit of kicking for touch and then tapped and drove over the line. but the ball got planted on an Argie leg. Could have had a few more if they'd kicked penalties to touch or scrummed - but, the right decision was to collect three points and stretch the lead.

I've not seen any team yet develop a fool-proof counter to the rush defence. It seems to be a combination of accurately combining variations of short/inside passes, chip kicks and wide kicks to the wing - to stretch the defending teams' resources.

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

Yeah, but the Saders found ways to score. Rush D? 19-3.

Up here (points at head) for thinking.

Down there (points at feet) for dancing.

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Well we did get rid of Bartman, leyton and Red Beard. @kiwiinmelb will be next if he doesn’t fix the space before comma nonsense

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@kiwiinmelb said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ght the same thing while watching the game , not so much concerned with

@Crazy-Horse onto something

The Crusaders being gifted their only try by Moroni joining a maul that was going nowhere for Jaguares was utter stupidity Nothing was to be gained from his presence there

if he stays on his wing, no try can be scored

Outside of a 3-4 min spell in 50 min Crusaders never looked like scoring

Their attack was blunted as they struggled to get around Jaguares defence

Crusaders were able to use their scrum to win penalties and relive pressure Without that the game may have had a different outcome
Also the Lineout was shaky losing 2 of their 6 throws

I don’t know why im bothering to engage but since we are rewriting history. Do you think that maybe if the Crusaders had chosen to kick to the corner or taken the scrum instead of kicking for goal and you know, actually scoring points and winning the game, they may have “looked like scoring” ?

The better team doesn’t get beaten 19-3.
To suggest the Jags were the better team because things maybe, potentially, possibly, could have been different if they didn’t blow all their chances, “gift” the crusaders a try, have a 10 who lost the plot or give away multiple kickable penalties is straight up fantasy.

Don’t count your chickens for your future success just yet. The Lions are still waiting for their first GF win.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Indeed

The last man standing would be @Bones who is our resident English professor I presume

I wonder if he has fallen foul of the things he has critiqued me in his previous posts? :astonished_face: :astonished_face:

Where did I say anything about English? There's that comprehension failing you again. In line with your posts on rugby though eh, so not surprising.

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Suggesting and embracing?i highly doubt it...

@ACT-Crusader said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@mariner4life said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

e pipe down, a non Argentinia

Of course it's impossible to learn anything from interactions with ARG fans, players, journalist, media and studying the game

I'll leave it a glib no nothing Kiwi to provide some sound impartial analysis

Knowledge is power, I suggest you embrace the phrase

I suggest you embrace comprehension, spelling and grammar.

If that becomes a prerequisite then this place will shut down

Well we did get rid of Bartman, leyton and Red Beard. @kiwiinmelb will be next if he doesn’t fix the space before comma nonsense

This place hasn't been the same since the day Voltman stopped being funny.

@pukunui said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ust yet. The Lions are still waiting for their first GF

I will make this clear: Jaguares were better for the first 50 minutes that's 62.5% of the game

This while nice was not enough to win games on their own

Why hell would Whitelock go for a lineout when it was the weakest part of their game and the strongest element of the Jaguares game

He was either going for 3 pt straight in front or call a 2nd scrum He chose well

Jaguares unless every team in SA, AUS & most sides in NZ have a distinct advantage in terms of sustainability of success in medium to long term

They're better able to replenish playing stocks due to players heading off to Europe or play mickey mouse rugby in Japan

Lions did well in a era of Super Rugby when it was weak

@Chris-B said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

I think this game again showed the blue print for shutting down the ABs that Gatland and his British Lions used pretty successfully. They employed a very good rush defence and as well as doing everything in their power to disrupt turn over ball.

The Crusaders only really had one try scoring opportunity and they took it. The same can't be said of the Argies and they will be disappointed. A better team would have capitalised on their opportunities last night and that is what worries me come the World Cup. NZ teams still do not handle the rush defence coupled with having turn over ball disrupted/slowed down. It is painfully obvious.

They had another try scoring opportunity when they used the gambit of kicking for touch and then tapped and drove over the line. but the ball got planted on an Argie leg. Could have had a few more if they'd kicked penalties to touch or scrummed - but, the right decision was to collect three points and stretch the lead.

I've not seen any team yet develop a fool-proof counter to the rush defence. It seems to be a combination of accurately combining variations of short/inside passes, chip kicks and wide kicks to the wing - to stretch the defending teams' resources.

Yep forgot about the chance with the free kick, but I think my point still stands. That was a freakish chance, certainly not one created in general play.

There were times during the first half where the Crusaders were passing the ball to a static player and they were getting nowhere. Both forwards and backs were guilty of it. They had nowhere to go ball in hand. But I was impressed with the way the Crusaders changed their game plan midway through the first half. There was a break in play and you could see a million waterboys run on to the pitch and join the players in their huddle. It was pretty obvious a message was coming from the stands. After that it seemed the Crusaders were happier to play without the ball than with it.

It concerns me NZ's best team never looked settled with ball in hand. They were either static, or were rushed into handling errors or into passing to a team mate in a worse position.

@Crazy-Horse you're concerned a NZ team didn't even have to break the shackles and play out of their skin to beat a team doing exactly that?

@Bones they couldn't break the shackles of the rush defence. It's the Achilles heal of NZ rugby.

@Crazy-Horse said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@Bones they couldn't break the shackles of the rush defence. It's the Achilles heal of NZ rugby.

Now I know you're just on the wind up

@Bones cut me some slack. I have been up all night working, or more accurately avoiding work.

@Jaguares4real said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

@pukunui said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

ust yet. The Lions are still waiting for their first GF

I will make this clear: Jaguares were better for the first 50 minutes that's 62.5% of the game

This while nice was not enough to win games on their own

Quite right. Rugby was (and perhaps still is) a game where stamina and fitness still count despite the seemingly endless substitutions allowed now. Spend the early part of the game wearing the opposition down (or allowing the opponents to wear themselves down) and capitalise when they have run out of breath near the end leading to scoring heaps of points to win games. Being a supporter of NZ rugby teams it is quite a common occurrence that has worked very well for over 100 years now.