@MiketheSnow nil point! England reserve came on and gave away 2 intercept tries, while also dropping the ball over the line - thrice.
In the imaginary game I watched anyway.
WRWC Final
Match thread
NZ v England
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@MiketheSnow nil point! England reserve came on and gave away 2 intercept tries, while also dropping the ball over the line - thrice.
In the imaginary game I watched anyway.
That’s novel having a reserve for a red card
@MiketheSnow said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Frye said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Machpants said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Lol, so who said England wouldn't be pushing for the twenty minute card now?
20 minute red card is obviously the way forward. Of course there are too many teams that would rather roll the dice with the red card lottery because it favours the underdog to do so. Hell Wales won a 6N championship on the back of favourable red card calls. No way would I want the red card laws changed if I was them.
OK I'll play
Many in the SH believe a red card is almost spiteful
It's there to punish stupidity, thuggery, and professional cheating (cumulative YC)
Whilst the refereeing is inconsistent, the intent is not.
I don't believe any referee is looking to send someone off.
But they have a duty of care to protect the players on the pitch.
In the case being discussed above, if there had been a 20 minute RC then England would certainly have benefited from the incident as arguably NZ's best player was unable to play for the rest of the match.
Hence the logic behind my suggestion that 'punishment' needs to be linked with the outcome of the act. Not sure of exactly how you'd do it .
What I don't get is how for all this talk about 'protecting the players' we saw two England players return to play after head knocks during the game. One flopped out and didn't move during play and another was very unsteady on her feet. We also see head knocks not attended to for ages and attitudes of trying to keep players on the field instead of taking them off. If player safety really is the focus why aren't head injury players removed from the field for assessment immediately? Why are HIAs designed to 'pass' a player?
I guess that what I'm saying is that the big focus and argument for RCs around head impact seems to be a clumsy ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and isn't reducing the core problems.
I think that players in this RWC were wearing mouthgards that recorded impacts and stress on the head. Will be interesting when that data all comes out.
@MiketheSnow said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Frye said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Machpants said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Lol, so who said England wouldn't be pushing for the twenty minute card now?
20 minute red card is obviously the way forward. Of course there are too many teams that would rather roll the dice with the red card lottery because it favours the underdog to do so. Hell Wales won a 6N championship on the back of favourable red card calls. No way would I want the red card laws changed if I was them.
In the case being discussed above, if there had been a 20 minute RC then England would certainly have benefited from the incident as arguably NZ's best player was unable to play for the rest of the match.
Nah. NZ lost one of their best but were still able to replace her with another handy player.
With a 20min red card England lose that player for the duration of the game, and also have to play a player down for 20 minutes. An adequate sanction for a reckless, but accidental incident.
@MiketheSnow said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@MiketheSnow nil point! England reserve came on and gave away 2 intercept tries, while also dropping the ball over the line - thrice.
In the imaginary game I watched anyway.
That’s novel having a reserve for a red card
That could be an interesting/shit idea. Have a red card bench of separate players that are nominated to come on after the 20 minutes for a player who's been red carded in a position they are nominated for.
Your bench players also have to be nominated for a position and can't be used if the red card sub also covers that position.
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@MiketheSnow said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@MiketheSnow nil point! England reserve came on and gave away 2 intercept tries, while also dropping the ball over the line - thrice.
In the imaginary game I watched anyway.
That’s novel having a reserve for a red card
That could be an interesting/shit idea. Have a red card bench of separate players that are nominated to come on after the 20 minutes for a player who's been red carded in a position they are nominated for.
Your bench players also have to be nominated for a position and can't be used if the red card sub also covers that position.
I'm a bit confused on that idea. Might be too early in the morning.
One other idea to throw into the mix is to increase the deterrent of a 20 minute RC by not allowing tactical subbing around it. If a prop goes off then any subs made to cover the situation are permanent. eg if you take a flanker off for numbers then that flanker can't return. In other words you have an impact on the use of the bench as well.
To be honest though, it is getting rare to see RCs that are wildly reckless. Most are timing accidents rather than decisions.
I had forgotten that the English players were to get £15,000 bonus if they won the RWC. For context, that is roughly half of the annual salary for their highest paid players.
@Crucial yeah I really struggle with the protect the head at all costs mentality with Cards, but on the other side, they have just penalised someone, YC'd them or RC'd them for a head contect, yet the number of times the player on the receiving end of the contact doesnt go off for an HIA...if an incident is deemed to be enough to penalise a team for a head contact then it is surely enough to do an HIA straight away rather than 5 mins later
@Crucial so you name your 23, but then you also have another "bench" of red card replacements. RC replacements and your normal bench are nominated for certain positions.
If you have to use an RC replacement (for a red card after 20 mins) then you can't use a normal bench player who is nominated to cover a position the RC replacement covers.
Essentially, red carded player is replaced by ideally a 3rd/4th in line player and the 2nd in line player (on the bench) can go have a shower with the red carded player.
Which could also be televised.
Just keep the red card for thuggery (eye gouging and other grub acts) and some other colour (fuckit, Blue card) for head contact in tackles/rucks etc. Specific card for the accidental head contact that they want to reduce. Have that at 20mins, and if the players technique doesn't improve bump it up to 30mins the next year.
Leaves the onus on the coaches and players to solve the issue, doesn't ruin the game for the fans, has actions to protect the players and address the hilarious NH opinion that 20min red cards will have players running around like the love child of Richard Loe and Troy Flavell.
@taniwharugby I reckon 27/28 would cover it.
Prop/hooker
Other forward
Two backs
Or maybe one prop, one hooker and the rest.
@Daffy-Jaffy said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Had never heard of this but another Gong for the team.
Holy schmokes fella 
Might wanna read the thread...
@Daffy-Jaffy said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Bones Funny I did scroll up a bit to check but obviously not far enough!. My post is cuter :dog_face:
I reckon the actual founder did it better 
@Daffy-Jaffy said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Had never heard of this but another Gong for the team.
Dial in @Davesofthunder
More about the Utrecht Shield in this thread, too:
No complaints from me seeing this stuff reposted, I make them for just this purpose 
Make sure you follow us on social media and check out the Raeburn Shield which is the mens version (currently held by Ireland)
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Frankie Harvey appears to be That Rugby Girl on twitter.
"There's a men's English team somewhere, that just watched the women's rugby cup final and has just decided they're sick of Eddie, stuff pre-match training, and aren't going to cheat in the game next weekend because the All Blacks still have that aura."
@nostrildamus sometimes your words are an enigma, wrapped in an enigma.
@Bones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Frankie Harvey appears to be That Rugby Girl on twitter.
Who is Frankie Harvey?
For who missed the Final, or who would like to watch it again, World Rugby has put the full match on their website.
You'll need to create a free account on their website first.
@Billy-Tell said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
Women can barely kick 30ms. He'd need a doctorate in bionics to improve their kicking.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
Women can barely kick 30ms. He'd need a doctorate in bionics to improve their kicking.
Some women
WRLWC drop kicking 40m
@MiketheSnow said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
Women can barely kick 30ms. He'd need a doctorate in bionics to improve their kicking.
Some women
WRLWC drop kicking 40m
Are they drop kicking for goal?
@Joans-Town-Jones said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
Don’t think we were winning that without the red card. Nevertheless well done. Fluhler is fantastic. DC was a great 10 but he is a shît goal kicking coach. We need to learn how to defend a maul.
Women can barely kick 30ms. He'd need a doctorate in bionics to improve their kicking.
Sorry to read you didn’t get to watch the final. It was a great game. Distance wasn’t the problem, accuracy was.
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
Most of the kicks (except one duff one) were close. Minor technical problem that was creating a late hook to the left.
If you were at practice and lining them up one after another you’d fix it quickly but you don’t get that luxury in a game.
@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
Most of the kicks (except one duff one) were close. Minor technical problem that was creating a late hook to the left.
If you were at practice and lining them up one after another you’d fix it quickly but you don’t get that luxury in a game.
Sounds like my tennis serve or my golf swing!
@canefan said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
Most of the kicks (except one duff one) were close. Minor technical problem that was creating a late hook to the left.
If you were at practice and lining them up one after another you’d fix it quickly but you don’t get that luxury in a game.Sounds like my tennis serve or my golf swing!
I just think she didn’t have the experience to work through a fix on the spot.
@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
Most of the kicks (except one duff one) were close. Minor technical problem that was creating a late hook to the left.
If you were at practice and lining them up one after another you’d fix it quickly but you don’t get that luxury in a game.
I was yelling at the TV to aim for inside the right post as all her close misses went left. There weren't any gimmes in front of the posts.
BTW, England only converted 20 of their 43 tries. NZ were 21/44.
@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@canefan said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Crucial said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Stargazer said in WRWC Final - NZ Vs England:
@Billy-Tell Yep. The commentators said that Holmes was nailing her kicks at goal from 50m during warm-up. I think she missed so many kicks because of the pressure; not because the kicks were too hard.
Most of the kicks (except one duff one) were close. Minor technical problem that was creating a late hook to the left.
If you were at practice and lining them up one after another you’d fix it quickly but you don’t get that luxury in a game.Sounds like my tennis serve or my golf swing!
I just think she didn’t have the experience to work through a fix on the spot.
Bloody tough when you're in it. I guess she could get pointers at half time but it's difficult to make changes on the fly