Kirifi's size has always counted against him, and that was pretty evident when he came on. He's an effective jackler as his short stature makes him difficult to move, but when it comes to the collisions he'll get smacked around at test level. It's also why players like Riccitelli have struggled to make the ABs, as @Chris-B has often talked about on here, size matters at the top level and that factors into the selection equation. Often players that have looked great at Super level have struggled with the physicality the next level up.

Not saying Kirifi should be discarded, he's really come of age as a player and if used right he could have an impact off the bench, but I can't see him as our starting 7 against the top teams.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France 2:

Kirifi's size has always counted against him, and that was pretty evident when he came on. He's an effective jackler as his short stature makes him difficult to move, but when it comes to the collisions he'll get smacked around at test level. It's also why players like Riccitelli have struggled to make the ABs, as @Chris-B has often talked about on here, size matters at the top level at that factors into the selection equation. Often players that have looked great at Super level have struggled with the physicality the next level up.

Not saying Kirifi should be discarded, he's really come of age as a player and if used right he could have an impact off the bench, but I can't see him as our starting 7 against the top teams.

You can definitely get away with a small 7 if it's a really well-defined role and you have other loosies supplying excess size and power. We have neither.

Having said that, I'm still pleased to see him there. Rewarding form is good, and he has been very good this year. It also shows Robertson is actually looking to achieve something other than injury cover with his bench, which was such a weakness for us last year.

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .

That would be an utter fucking disaster.

There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:

Ardie did a lot of linking and continuity work I thought. He isn't a typical 7 but for people on here to say he was "shit", well, that wasn't my take on his game.
The forward I really thought we were missing was a 2024-level Sititi.

I don't think he was shit but he was certainly instrumental in that Woki try. Clean break happens on his tackle and then Woki smashes through him like nothing on the try line. He looked kinda tired I thought.

Too many small guys in the loose forwards will wear them down.

@george33 said in All Blacks v France 2:

I've got a Savea, Papalili, Jacobson loose forward trio 2nd test starting providing Jacobson gets the all clear.Finau bench

Well ... that would be unexpected

Re small 7s ...

Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!

@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .

That would be an utter fucking disaster.

There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.

Left the Wallablies and playing for the ABs now ? Interesting

@MN5 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .

That would be an utter fucking disaster.

There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.

Left the Wallablies and playing for the ABs now ? Interesting

Vaai vood you say such a thing

@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:

Re small 7s ...

Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!

Great example, I'm a Kwagga fan! But he has another skill apparently:

Not sure Hoopah is such a great example as he was a very good 7 but he could be manhandled because of size. OTOH I doubt George Smith was much bigger if at all but I don't remember him being manhandled very often.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:

@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:

Re small 7s ...

Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!

Great example, I'm a Kwagga fan! But he has another skill apparently:

View embedded content

Not sure Hoopah is such a great example as he was a very good 7 but he could be manhandled because of size. OTOH I doubt George Smith was much bigger if at all but I don't remember him being manhandled very often.

Players were generally smaller during George Smith's era however he played with Toutai Kefu and Owen Finegan so there was a good balance. I think Smith would be a bit bigger and physically stronger than Hooper. Kwaga Smith is immensely strong for his size.

@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:

Re small 7s ...

Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!

Tizzano is also smaller I think so give it time.

OK, these are small and efficient guys but the problem is : is it safe to field two small loose forwards at the same time ?

@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France 2:

@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:

Love to start, DMac back to the bench to hopefully do his thing in the last 20/30.

Would've been interesting how much worse the kicking would have been with a back three that kick worse than half the loosies in the country.

I think Razors plan for DMAC is just that, because he will be expecting to bring Mounga back into the side next year, so DMAC can cover 10/15 from the bench

Bait.

Bones, stop talking shit

Well thought out, but

View image

Why do you think that is bait?

Seems pretty that Robertson will put Mounga back at 10 if he comes back to Nz.

Dmac providing the impact from the bench and covering 10/15

Positive thought - we are always better (marginally?) in T2 of the year

Negative thought - if George’s back row oil is on the money, it suggests coaches are keep to shake things up and take away whatever continuity we might have

Personally I’d have gone for minimal changes to the starting 15, only those injury forced.

Proctor gets another shot, straight swap of Reece for whoever you guys reckon had the Super form (Narawa?). Rieko stays on the wing.

I can even live with BB staying at 10 and DMac on the bench.

But not doesn’t sound like it’ll be anything like this

@Kiwiwomble that's what I'd go for definitely not the inside word.
Will see if I can get any oil next day or so.

Scott Barrett expected to miss Test 2.

Make-up of the second and back rows might be determined by Jacobson's availability. If he's still out then you'd think Tuipulotu would come in for Barrett in a straight swap. If he's fit then maybe Vaa'i shifts back to lock and Jacobson comes in at 6. Finau obviously an option at 6 too if Vaa'i shifts.

Holland, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Jacobson would probably be my preferred quintet with Tuipulotu and CLW on the bench.

There’s also a slim chance that Tuipulotu comes in for Barrett and starts, Vai’i stays at 6 and Ah Koi is used off the bench in jersey 19, he has been in camp as injury cover the whole time. Would be between Finau or Kirifi who drops out then. Slim chance, but still another option they could use is Jacobson isn’t fit.

Not saying that’s what I would do, just putting it out there that it’s an option they have available

@Landers92

That's an interesting idea. Why do you think Finau would drop out for Ah Kuoi who is only there for injury cover?