@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
A lot of cracks papered over here guys.
This was not a competent performance.
Really?
We just beat, and deservedly so, the two time world champion, first, second and third best team in the world. Competent enough.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Loving the balance of the loosies for once
Parker at 6 looks to the manor born.
Wally getting back to 100.
RD at 7 hitting rucks rather than the usual seagulling.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Christie is there because of injuries, hopefully 1 or 2 will be back soon enough -otherwise be nice to see what Preston can do starting.
We really need to move on from BB at 10 Give Dmac the reins and Love to the benchWe definitely need to start giving Love more game time. We could easily have an injury crisis at 10 like we have at 9. He needs experience and they need to start giving him some.
This is what Rassie is doing, for better or worse.
He has 3 or 4 players in every position with 30 caps each come World Cup time.
The dirty little secret of the Boks, and it will become apparent soon enough, is that the players coming through are nowhere near as good as the older guys
Sounds like us after 2015
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Our scrum sucks.
They picked Vaai at lock for his scrummaging
Barrett is world class LH lock, so they play him on TH side. Vaa'i a tried and tested TH lock, so they play him on LH.
That'll learn them.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
EdG is getting dealt to
To me problems more on TH side, and locks.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@canefan I’d give Rieko a rest
TBF, I though he was resting tonight.
Good trysaver he made on the line at least.
I wasn't making a big dig at Reiko.
I agree with @His-Bobness - he looks really cooked.
Yeah, there's a reason why we tend to go with youth on the wings in this country traditionally.
Clarke should replace him now he is ready to go
Clarke left Narawa right, is better than reiko sevu
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Just as well Jordan caught Sititi's pass for his try as he has dropped every high ball.
Why have SB and Vaa'i swapped sides in the scrum? It isn't helping.
Exactly!
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
If they were better they would have won
Yes ... but ... never mind ...
Morning after replay thoughts.
I am very happy with tight five - we have some good depth here now.
Regarding the scrum - we should remember , we're up against world class opposition here and more than held our own - we are very rarely going to get 100% dominance in scrums against the top teams in the world and inconsistent ref calls.
best starting loose trio in years -- just not sure Kirifi is the bench player I would choose.
as other have said Christie is 4th choice 9 for a reason - and considering that played well enough tonight.
we really have a depth problem at 10 -- we need to blood some talent here cos surely BB and Dmac can't be the plan for RWC27 - both are passed their best for sure.
12 13 better on D and Proctor hasn't done a lot wrong , but the combo is still very clunky on attack we need an effective combo-- I really want to see them put Jordie at 13 and Quin at 12. and see how that goes.
Happy enough with back 3 performance, however we lose very little by giving a few others ago over Rieko or Sevu.
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Ardie showed some toe there!
Forward pass before Kolbe set off.
Great intensity in wet, both teams play was affected by the conditions and used the conditions.
The ref was ok, he does like to make his presence felt usually.
ABs were accurate in both the 22s.
Felt Taukei’aho went well thrown in there early. Vaa’i was huge, all over the boks and just enjoyed the game by the looks.
Parker is a great wall to have at 6 and had support from both Savea and Sititi who stayed tight often.
Sititi didn’t look too bad after limited rugby, good all round at tackles, carries, metres.
Christie did well I thought for where he’s at and at this level.
BB had some nice assists on the tries which were defining, couple good kicks, couple bad.
The kicking game is here to stay between the 22s, where just not gunna be the ball in hand multi phase team until inside our 22.
Proctor had a better game, quietly went about his work, Conrad like even.
Back three went alright together, dmac secured the high ball well. Jordan was better, still missed a few, more support around this time.
Good shift from Tupaea and great try.
Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock
It’s hard not to conclude that the major source of the backline’s permanent funk is BB’s late career reluctance to take on the line as he did in his pomp. In receiving the ball he’s either going to nervously shovel it out to his brother or aimlessly kick it away. This leaves the opposition secure in either monstering JB and denying him space or waiting for the shallow kick.
The AB coaches, by clinging to a past-it Beauden and refusing to engineer a succession plan, have had to design their attack around him. And that seriously constrains the entire backline.
Don’t get me wrong. He still pulls out one or two great moments per game. The early cross-field kick for Narawa’s try, the 50/22 and some of his covering defence were admirable. But compared to the BB of old he’s only intermittently great. It’s only in flashes.
The rest of the time, for a spectator, it’s like watching a concert by an octogenarian rock legend. You close your eyes willing Roger Daltrey to hit the high-note scream at the climax to ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’ but it’s not the same. It’s pantomime Who.
I know Razor is waiting for Mo’unga to return, but this leaves the team in a permanent stasis in the meantime. It’s the Beauden Barrett tribute show - his greatest hits - on endless repeat. We know how it goes. The problem is so does the opposition.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Shit that was a brutal scrum. We got bitched
T Williams getting monstered on hit by Louw. Suspect Ox swung his massive ass out towards touch and with PSDT attacked Lomax's chest. Parker also slipped off Lomax's right bum cheek. Real eight man effort.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Welcome back Quinn
Not sure Jordie would have scored that. Good for QT to get minutes at 12, which is by far his best position.
@His-Bobness 100% - Rugby is a lot like league now with lines of defence. A first five has to be prepared to run into the line and get smashed to create space for others i.e. run off me and i will take the gap. Watching the Boks fly off the line targeting 2nd and centre, you know it’s because nothing is happening around 1st five.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
The obvious issue to me is we could not exit our 22 with Christie or BB, we have had this issue for years. Late in the game SA in their 22 and their 9 box kicks it past half way. We have to be able to exit, its fundamental yet we still can't do it.
In fact we did exit well initially, largely via Jordie's big boot. But regressed badly in last 15 or so.
@His-Bobness which is just baffling from Razor and Co, you would think they would have encouraged more running by now or just dropped him for Love or dmac etc.
Or if there happy with the shuffle passes, create something with dummy runners or have him shuffle pass wider to runners.
Or get some variation from him, chip, cross kick, shuffle pass, up and under, round the back, inside pass, wide cut out pass, keep the opposition guessing.
Family away so did a full rewatch.
Before that it felt like Boks came back very strongly in second half and so looked for turning points.
In fact, quarter by quarter:
First we were well ahead, two tries coming from expert analysis of Boks defence and excellent execution.
Second was pretty even.
Third we probably shaded. Boks bench changes pre 60 didn't really change much.
Fourth went to Boks on scoreboard, but they only really had ascendancy in scrums. Can't remember last time we got pushed cleanly off our ball 10m out from our line. That was a chink of light for Boks, which they did best to build on.
Pressure from kick off, kick to corner and ultimately QT try put game out of reach. Our exits were suddenly poor in last quarter.
All in all a very good win. Forwards excellent in lineout, although Boks recovered after De Jager came on. We nullified their maul and really disrupted their breakdown.
Parker a key part of that. It was notable that PDST was anonymous.
Sure, the backs didn't play champagne rugby, but conditions weren't really conducive to that, and Boks backs closed down well, albeit more dangerous once SFM came on.
Well done, Razor and staff.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Just watching the highlights
Le Roux was very unlucky for the first try
If he'd made contact with Narawa it would have been a YC and possible Penalty Try
Should Narawa have released the ball before running over to score?
Wasn't tackled, but wasn't allowed to be. A tough one to call.
Off your feet, out of the game?
"not held"
Not tackled.
@MiketheSnow nothing stopping him from jackling on his feet apart from overcommitting. Would have thought that would have compelled Narawa to release.
So not unlucky as much as clumsy.
Could someone tell me what time Proctor committed the kick? Don't actually recall, and want to go back and watch. Thanks
Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
The scrum was disappointing as I thought we might have a slight edge once the reserves came on.
Lomax looked really underdone, and Williams wasn't any better. I can only assume SB was used as the TH lock so he didn't have to swap when Holland came on. @pakman will have some thoughts.
I expect Williams and Lomax were both rather underdone.
Various thoughts:
Although I thought Sami T was excellent generally tonight, I think he's the weakest scrummaging hooker in squad. And has been playing between Tosi and Norris, so a new combo;
Last year against Boks, Lomax had a good battle against Ox and probably shaded him. That was with Vaa'i behind him. Williams gave Malherbe real problems, with Taylor beside him and Barrett behind him.
So swapping the sides the locks scrummed on seems to have been a mistake. And by last 15 Barrett was probably tired. Vaa'i went well at TH with Holland at LH in last 20 of first two French tests.;
Camera only really allowed good look at TH side in H1 and LH side in H2. Seemed Newell was pushing up and in, which allowed Nche to attack his chest. That said, it did seem Nche hinged a couple of times, but not blown;
Williams didn't have a great scrummaging game, and Louw seemed clearly to get the better of him. Louw has short legs and seemed to be able to get under him.
In terms of the crucial tighthead, when Christie put the ball in, and the weight came on, Louw seemed to get under Williams almost lifting him and disconnecting him from Vaa'i. Not sure Sami was able to help. Suspect Ox swung his massive ass out towards touch and with PSDT pushing strongly on the diagonal attacked Lomax's chest. Parker also slipped off Lomax's right bum cheek, and Lomax was twisted inwards and back. Real eight man effort.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Just watching the highlights
Le Roux was very unlucky for the first try
If he'd made contact with Narawa it would have been a YC and possible Penalty Try
Should Narawa have released the ball before running over to score?
Wasn't tackled, but wasn't allowed to be. A tough one to call.
Off your feet, out of the game?
"not held"
Not tackled.
@MiketheSnow nothing stopping him from jackling on his feet apart from overcommitting. Would have thought that would have compelled Narawa to release.
So not unlucky as much as clumsy.
Agreed
Did well not to flop on him
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.
Yeah I think he does a good job.
Can’t remember the last time I wrote that!
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.
Yeah I think he does a good job.
Can’t remember the last time I wrote that!
I thought it was Sumo at first, he definitely did a good job. Nice to have a young commentator coming through that isn’t an ex player.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo 69 mins and 50 something
Thanks!
Yeah. Not the greatest option.
Good on them for having a crack. But ...
Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.
Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.
Both legitimate povs.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo 69 mins and 50 something
Thanks!
Yeah. Not the greatest option.
Good on them for having a crack. But ...
Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.
Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.
Both legitimate povs.
I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.
@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock
Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo 69 mins and 50 something
Thanks!
Yeah. Not the greatest option.
Good on them for having a crack. But ...
Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.
Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.
Both legitimate povs.
I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.
Jordie does take a little extra time with the big wind up.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock
Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.
The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock
Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.
The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.
The Cake Tin hasn’t been a happy hunting ground recently but we won our last test there so it’s not all doom and gloom. Important for us to back it up again in Wellington and make a statement against our biggest rivals.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock
Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.
The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.
A bit like what happened in Argentina a win then we button off I am thinking the same, do we back up or not.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Stag said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Proctor has failed to impress again. Lester would provide far more impact.
He certainly hasn’t been bad tonight. Done everything asked off him but when we kick it away all night what the hell is he meant to do?
True - not much of a night for backs to show silky skills and complicated set plays.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@booboo 69 mins and 50 something
Thanks!
Yeah. Not the greatest option.
Good on them for having a crack. But ...
Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.
Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.
Both legitimate povs.
I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.
We did. For about 15 minutes....
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.
It's definitely a cool story but he must have been calling the Shield game from a studio in Auckland - there simply wasn't enough time to get from Invers to Auckland - the Shield game only kicked off 3 hours before the ABs
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.
It's definitely a cool story but he must have been calling the Shield game from a studio in Auckland - there simply wasn't enough time to get from Invers to Auckland - the Shield game only kicked off 3 hours before the ABs
Yeah you’re probably right, still a great effort nevertheless
