@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Just watching the highlights

Le Roux was very unlucky for the first try

If he'd made contact with Narawa it would have been a YC and possible Penalty Try

Should Narawa have released the ball before running over to score?

Wasn't tackled, but wasn't allowed to be. A tough one to call.

Off your feet, out of the game?

"not held"

Not tackled.

@MiketheSnow nothing stopping him from jackling on his feet apart from overcommitting. Would have thought that would have compelled Narawa to release.

So not unlucky as much as clumsy.

Could someone tell me what time Proctor committed the kick? Don't actually recall, and want to go back and watch. Thanks

Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.

Wondered why we had McTainsh.

Did good job.

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Can't see Jordan calling for it. And he has two Boks on him even if he does catch it.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

The scrum was disappointing as I thought we might have a slight edge once the reserves came on.

Lomax looked really underdone, and Williams wasn't any better. I can only assume SB was used as the TH lock so he didn't have to swap when Holland came on. @pakman will have some thoughts.

I expect Williams and Lomax were both rather underdone.

Various thoughts:

1. Although I thought Sami T was excellent generally tonight, I think he's the weakest scrummaging hooker in squad. And has been playing between Tosi and Norris, so a new combo;

2. Last year against Boks, Lomax had a good battle against Ox and probably shaded him. That was with Vaa'i behind him. Williams gave Malherbe real problems, with Taylor beside him and Barrett behind him.
   So swapping the sides the locks scrummed on seems to have been a mistake. And by last 15 Barrett was probably tired. Vaa'i went well at TH with Holland at LH in last 20 of first two French tests.;

3. Camera only really allowed good look at TH side in H1 and LH side in H2. Seemed Newell was pushing up and in, which allowed Nche to attack his chest. That said, it did seem Nche hinged a couple of times, but not blown;

4. Williams didn't have a great scrummaging game, and Louw seemed clearly to get the better of him. Louw has short legs and seemed to be able to get under him.

In terms of the crucial tighthead, when Christie put the ball in, and the weight came on, Louw seemed to get under Williams almost lifting him and disconnecting him from Vaa'i. Not sure Sami was able to help. Suspect Ox swung his massive ass out towards touch and with PSDT pushing strongly on the diagonal attacked Lomax's chest. Parker also slipped off Lomax's right bum cheek, and Lomax was twisted inwards and back. Real eight man effort.

@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Thanks!

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Just watching the highlights

Le Roux was very unlucky for the first try

If he'd made contact with Narawa it would have been a YC and possible Penalty Try

Should Narawa have released the ball before running over to score?

Wasn't tackled, but wasn't allowed to be. A tough one to call.

Off your feet, out of the game?

"not held"

Not tackled.

@MiketheSnow nothing stopping him from jackling on his feet apart from overcommitting. Would have thought that would have compelled Narawa to release.

So not unlucky as much as clumsy.

Agreed

Did well not to flop on him

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.

Yeah I think he does a good job.

Can’t remember the last time I wrote that!

@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.

Yeah I think he does a good job.

Can’t remember the last time I wrote that!

I thought it was Sumo at first, he definitely did a good job. Nice to have a young commentator coming through that isn’t an ex player.

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Thanks!

Yeah. Not the greatest option.

Good on them for having a crack. But ...

Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.

Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.

Both legitimate povs.

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Thanks!

Yeah. Not the greatest option.

Good on them for having a crack. But ...

Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.

Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.

Both legitimate povs.

I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.

@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock

Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Thanks!

Yeah. Not the greatest option.

Good on them for having a crack. But ...

Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.

Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.

Both legitimate povs.

I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.

Jordie does take a little extra time with the big wind up.

McTainsh has been the best Sky rugby commentator for a while.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock

Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.

The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock

Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.

The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.

The Cake Tin hasn’t been a happy hunting ground recently but we won our last test there so it’s not all doom and gloom. Important for us to back it up again in Wellington and make a statement against our biggest rivals.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@BorderJB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Eden Park record secure…… but a wallaby could be hiding over the fence, ready to raid the lush green paddock

Aust will also be a tougher test due to their ability to use the ball, and play with width. But let's worry about Wellington first.

The Welly test is the one I’ve been most concerned about. The let down from what was always going to be a massive EP test. Potential injuries when we already have a few in the hospital ward, and the fact that I don’t think we have played well there over the last few seasons.

A bit like what happened in Argentina a win then we button off I am thinking the same, do we back up or not.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Stag said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Proctor has failed to impress again. Lester would provide far more impact.

He certainly hasn’t been bad tonight. Done everything asked off him but when we kick it away all night what the hell is he meant to do?

True - not much of a night for backs to show silky skills and complicated set plays.

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Toddy said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@booboo 69 mins and 50 something

Thanks!

Yeah. Not the greatest option.

Good on them for having a crack. But ...

Bobby (now Bob) Skinstad was on Devlin's podcast this week, and he made a comment about getting out of your half along the lines of 60m gives you a chance to scramble in defence in case of a break or error, but 30m doesn't.

Seems our philosophy is possession anywhere is an opportunity.

Both legitimate povs.

I really don’t get why we don’t use Jordie and his big boot when clearing from our 22, he gets so much more distance than both Christie and Beauden.

We did. For about 15 minutes....

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.

It's definitely a cool story but he must have been calling the Shield game from a studio in Auckland - there simply wasn't enough time to get from Invers to Auckland - the Shield game only kicked off 3 hours before the ABs

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Pretty cool story about Jeff McTainsh, apparently he was doing the commentary for the Southland vs Canterbury Shield challenge and was passed a note saying Tony Johnson had lost his voice and he was needed at Eden Park. Flew up and did the call without any prep, awesome commitment.

It's definitely a cool story but he must have been calling the Shield game from a studio in Auckland - there simply wasn't enough time to get from Invers to Auckland - the Shield game only kicked off 3 hours before the ABs

Yeah you’re probably right, still a great effort nevertheless

@canefan kick is only as good as.the chase, and it seems players put in the effort on the ones.that are.contestable yet put a half hearted attempt on one's.they see as too long, zero pressure

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@canefan kick is only as good as.the chase, and it seems players put in the effort on the ones.that are.contestable yet put a half hearted attempt on one's.they see as too long, zero pressure

WJ kicked long and set up a try. So did BB with his 50/20. JB kicked a long pressure relieving touch finder. There has to be some balance and we just fell in love with box kicks and dinky stuff again

@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Jailbreak7 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

If Narawa is out, who is next caboff the rank? Please dont say Reece..
I'd rather Leicester F or Clarke if fit..

Just put Jordan at 14 and one of Love or DMac at 15.

Interesting that WJ didn't feature as much from 14. Probably more to do with the fact we refused to hold onto the ball than anything else

He scored a cracker try but then his confidence was shot after dropping about 4 box kicks in a row. Disappeared from the game after this. The coaches really need to work on this weak area of his game as he is a confidence player and or we are neutering our best attacking weapon.

@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

The obvious issue to me is we could not exit our 22 with Christie or BB, we have had this issue for years. Late in the game SA in their 22 and their 9 box kicks it past half way. We have to be able to exit, its fundamental yet we still can't do it.

In fact we did exit well initially, largely via Jordie's big boot. But regressed badly in last 15 or so.

Yeah that regression in the 2nd half led to their field position and points. If it’s fresh legs that are needed at halfback, a first five that can kick long, or just better heads up plays on turnovers the ABs need to get it sorted.

@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Loving the balance of the loosies for once

Parker at 6 looks to the manor born.

Wally getting back to 100.

RD at 7 hitting rucks rather than the usual seagulling.

Parker and Sititi no doubt but agree with earlier poster Savea was a bit anonymous at 7 and only really had a impact on the game when he moved to 8. Is he better suited to impact off the the bench with a Lakai or Papali'i starting at 7?

@canefan 2nd half was just awful.

@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

The problem is still the paucity of ideas or punch from the backline and the conservative selections. Love should have been given a shot in the second Argentinan test, but Robertson (worried about losing games primarily) appears to be shying away from succession planning. I wonder, too, whether they need to move JB out one to 13 and have Tupea starting at 12. It will be interesting to see whether they use Leicester F in the Wellington test - perhaps off the bench, with Jordan at 14, Love at 15 and Caleb Clarke at 11.

Bob, did you miss the first two tries? Good ideas executed well.
Hardly conditions for attacking rugby

@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

The problem is still the paucity of ideas or punch from the backline and the conservative selections. Love should have been given a shot in the second Argentinan test, but Robertson (worried about losing games primarily) appears to be shying away from succession planning. I wonder, too, whether they need to move JB out one to 13 and have Tupea starting at 12. It will be interesting to see whether they use Leicester F in the Wellington test - perhaps off the bench, with Jordan at 14, Love at 15 and Caleb Clarke at 11.

@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

It’s hard not to conclude that the major source of the backline’s permanent funk is BB’s late career reluctance to take on the line as he did in his pomp. In receiving the ball he’s either going to nervously shovel it out to his brother or aimlessly kick it away. This leaves the opposition secure in either monstering JB and denying him space or waiting for the shallow kick.

The AB coaches, by clinging to a past-it Beauden and refusing to engineer a succession plan, have had to design their attack around him. And that seriously constrains the entire backline.

Don’t get me wrong. He still pulls out one or two great moments per game. The early cross-field kick for Narawa’s try, the 50/22 and some of his covering defence were admirable. But compared to the BB of old he’s only intermittently great. It’s only in flashes.

The rest of the time, for a spectator, it’s like watching a concert by an octogenarian rock legend. You close your eyes willing Roger Daltrey to hit the high-note scream at the climax to ‘Won’t Get Fooled Again’ but it’s not the same. It’s pantomime Who.

I know Razor is waiting for Mo’unga to return, but this leaves the team in a permanent stasis in the meantime. It’s the Beauden Barrett tribute show - his greatest hits - on endless repeat. We know how it goes. The problem is so does the opposition.

Great writing His Bobness, and I think you are on the money.

However, I would say Beauden is the one 10 you know who won't go to pieces under pressure.

Not sure if Dmac could have handled the pressure of that game.
Maybe he could have, maybe he couldn't have - just not sure.

@tubbyj said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

Loving the balance of the loosies for once

Parker at 6 looks to the manor born.

Wally getting back to 100.

RD at 7 hitting rucks rather than the usual seagulling.

Parker and Sititi no doubt but agree with earlier poster Savea was a bit anonymous at 7 and only really had a impact on the game when he moved to 8. Is he better suited to impact off the the bench with a Lakai or Papali'i starting at 7?

There is simply no way Ardie is going to benched so I think the current set up is the best option they have going forward with I suspect Lakai the guy to take the bench loose forward spot.

@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.

@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.

Are you suggesting they try Love?

@Frank Not at 10 against the Boks. But he should be introduced gradually ASAP - either off the bench next week or starting as fullback

@canefan still s bit of difference of kicking long to find space than the kick it for the sake of kicking we seem so keen on doing, often to hand.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@canefan still s bit of difference of kicking long to find space than the kick it for the sake of kicking we seem so keen on doing, often to hand.

Totally agree. The kicking in the second half in particular was dire. It was basically a case of giving them the ball back mostly under little to no pressure

Christie's kicks went all of 10 meters trying to exit on a few occasions in the second. Frustrating as hell!

Ray if your reading this Jordan needs to stay on the wing. End of.

@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:

@Frank Not at 10 against the Boks. But he should be introduced gradually ASAP - either off the bench next week or starting as fullback

I disagree with this. If you’re in the squad for a position, you should be able to start against anybody. End of.

I can’t think of a Pat Howard debut by any player in recent memory. Tom Taylor, Sopoaga were both thrown in 10 vs big opposition without issue.

We’ve become so accustomed to super rugby standouts given 15 minute debuts that we think it’s the right thing to do. Why?

@MajorRage Fair enough, too. I guess I was more predicting what Razor will do, not what he should do.
The ultra-cautious selections have been become the standard operating procedure - perhaps a legacy of the NZR’s panicky, knee-jerk mismanagement of Foster between Covid and the 2023 World Cup.