@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
Are you suggesting they try Love?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@canefan still s bit of difference of kicking long to find space than the kick it for the sake of kicking we seem so keen on doing, often to hand.
Totally agree. The kicking in the second half in particular was dire. It was basically a case of giving them the ball back mostly under little to no pressure
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Not at 10 against the Boks. But he should be introduced gradually ASAP - either off the bench next week or starting as fullback
I disagree with this. If you’re in the squad for a position, you should be able to start against anybody. End of.
I can’t think of a Pat Howard debut by any player in recent memory. Tom Taylor, Sopoaga were both thrown in 10 vs big opposition without issue.
We’ve become so accustomed to super rugby standouts given 15 minute debuts that we think it’s the right thing to do. Why?
@MajorRage Fair enough, too. I guess I was more predicting what Razor will do, not what he should do.
The ultra-cautious selections have been become the standard operating procedure - perhaps a legacy of the NZR’s panicky, knee-jerk mismanagement of Foster between Covid and the 2023 World Cup.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
However, I would say Beauden is the one 10 you know who won't go to pieces under pressure.
He goes to pieces under pressure plenty, I really don't buy that. Have we forgotten he's the ultimate for getting caught in the backfield and shovelling a pass ( or attempted pass) to a player in often a worse position?
I thought it was a great Test match. Normally, I’d like to reaffirm such an occasion by giving it as much time and space as possible: watching the game multiple times, comparing it to other Tests, sifting through numbers and footage before writing a (too) long review of the match at hand. But as I’m suffering (yes, suffering) from a combination of work and rugby fatigue, no such time could be afforded. Fortunately, the ABs are once again showing what to do in times like this: why slog away when it’s easier and more efficient to do things as quickly as possible?
Stop overwriting, stop overplaying
I’m sure everyone remembers my treatise written after last year’s French Test on the AB set-piece attack. It was an avalanche of information: YouTube videos with time stamps, picture frames, and words, so many words. In a way, it mimicked what was happening on the field, the ABs trying to overwhelm their opposition with an avalanche of possession, carries and passing. Against the biggest sides in Test rugby, South Africa and France, the All Blacks simply tried to do too much in 2024.
A lot of passing (186 on average), more than their fair share of 22 entries (8.3) but not a lot of purchase from those entries (2.3 points per entry): this was the story of 2024. On Saturday against the Springboks, however, a very different picture appeared.
Way less passing (125), way more kicking (34) and, most importantly, the appearance of brutal efficiency when entering the opposition 22 (4.2 points per entry). So less really is more?
The tragedy of Jason Holland
In last year’s verbose review, I tried to finish somewhat succinctly: “If the Hurricane lineout strike is going to return to Test rugby in 2025, Jason Holland will need to find a way of sharpening it, where it can finally cut through South African and French Test defences.”
As if Holland took that little comment personally, we saw the set-up for the arrow attack return in the very first minute of Saturday’s Test. But rather than some elaborate midfield play, Barrett went for the simple first-phase cross-kick, directly attacking the defensively weak Willie Le Roux in the simplest way possible.
Things do not have to be complicated to work well. Why try to go through the Springbok midfield defence – by far the best in the world – if you can simply go around it, targeting the obvious backline weakness?
Holland has seemingly learned a lot from last year’s often overcomplicated Test campaign, as simplicity and straightforwardness are key terms in this year’s set-piece attack. 15 minutes later, with another lineout on the opposition 22, another set-piece strike embodied the same principles. Target the slower Bok seams with your best hole runners (Jordan/Jordie Barrett) and find out what happens. As it happened, the secondary runner (Jordie) wasn't even necessary to finish the play.
If Jason Holland’s main responsibility is to create strike plays, then I think it’s fair to say he’s more than earning his coin at the minute, with an increase in redzone efficiency against a side like the Springboks. Whether he'll get much credit for this is still up in the air. But as the Greek tragedies have taught us, future glory never comes from a clear and easy path.
Finishing the job
I guess I could keep going, looking at defensive patterns, some individual performances, and what may happen next week. Big occasions can tempt you like that: you want to be elaborate, give it the attention it really deserves, keep basking in its light for as long as possible.
But if Robertson and his coaches have seemingly learned anything from last year, it’s that the bigger arena doesn’t necessarily require a more complex playbook. Rather, it requires cutting back and doing the simple things well: kick for territory, make your tackles, attack opposition ball. Try the easy things first before making it harder for yourself.
And since they so obviously want all of us on their journey with them, perhaps I should try taking a page out of their book. Keep it nice and simple, and just see what happens.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
it’s that the bigger arena doesn’t necessarily require a more complex playbook.
This.
Great sides just do the basics with a low error rate, over and over. Bokke were surprisingly poor at unforced errors - and basic mistakes
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning! 
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Just happened to switch onto The Breakdown. Mils and Marshall both thought we kicked too much from 9. They both wanted to see more kicking from 10, more manipulation of their back three. I can't believe it
@Chris-B Nice glass half-full reminder, Chris. But will they ‘take it to the limit one more time?’
@His-Bobness To channel The Dude - I hate the fucking Eagles, man!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Tell Razor Life in the Fastlane, surely make you lose your mind!!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness To channel The Dude - I hate the fucking Eagles, man!
Well you did bring them up...
@Chris-B stoked that we won.
But this is not a vintage side. Lots of errors and poor decision making. Bokke were uncharacteristically bad with unforced errors.
We won, but like a lot of our victories it was far from comfortable - despite some early points.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Loving the balance of the loosies for once
Parker at 6 looks to the manor born.
Wally getting back to 100.
RD at 7 hitting rucks rather than the usual seagulling.
Parker and Sititi no doubt but agree with earlier poster Savea was a bit anonymous at 7 and only really had a impact on the game when he moved to 8. Is he better suited to impact off the the bench with a Lakai or Papali'i starting at 7?
There is simply no way Ardie is going to benched so I think the current set up is the best option they have going forward with I suspect Lakai the guy to take the bench loose forward spot.
Agreed. My personal preference, though, would be to let Lakai have a shot starting at 7, Parker at 6 and RD at 8. Then let Wally loose early in second and RD can switch to 7.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Just happened to switch onto The Breakdown. Mils and Marshall both thought we kicked too much from 9. They both wanted to see more kicking from 10, more manipulation of their back three. I can't believe it
You disagree with less 9 box kicking?
I don’t agree with you!
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Just happened to switch onto The Breakdown. Mils and Marshall both thought we kicked too much from 9. They both wanted to see more kicking from 10, more manipulation of their back three. I can't believe it
You disagree with less 9 box kicking?
I don’t agree with you!
If you read my posts you will know I HATE box kicks and felt we overegged on them big time. I just can't believe they said something so commonsensical! (Of course, Goldie tried to make the counterargument, loyal company man that he is 
)
@nzzp Yeah - but, we've got a propensity to measure everything against our 2015 team.
Which was the culmination of 12 years of building a team around some guys who turned out to be all time greats.
Our history is littered with teams with plenty of journeymen - stumbling and bumbling, but generally staying on the right side of the ledger.
Ce;ebrate this one!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@nzzp Yeah - but, we've got a propensity to measure everything against our 2015 team.
Which was the culmination of 12 years of building a team around some guys who turned out to be all time greats.
Our history is littered with teams with plenty of journeymen - stumbling and bumbling, but generally staying on the right side of the ledger.
Ce;ebrate this one!
Yep I don’t think we’ll see another side like the 2015 one in our lifetime. So many greats in that team.
This is a growing team that have shown glimpses of potential, we all just have to be patient.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@nzzp Yeah - but, we've got a propensity to measure everything against our 2015 team.
Which was the culmination of 12 years of building a team around some guys who turned out to be all time greats.
Our history is littered with teams with plenty of journeymen - stumbling and bumbling, but generally staying on the right side of the ledger.
Ce;ebrate this one!
Yep I don’t think we’ll see another side like the 2015 one in our lifetime. So many greats in that team.
This is a growing team that have shown glimpses of potential, we all just have to be patient.
That first 20 minutes was a tease. I want to see them play with that sort of clarity and purpose for closer to 80 minutes
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Yep
I was shocked at the post game negativity on the Fern
I was buzzing
I think the big question is has Razor commited to having BB as the incumbent 10 to the next WC in 2027.
Even if he has he could be smarter by giving the backups time and experience at 10.
Biggest fault ATM IMO.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
However, I would say Beauden is the one 10 you know who won't go to pieces under pressure.
He goes to pieces under pressure plenty, I really don't buy that. Have we forgotten he's the ultimate for getting caught in the backfield and shovelling a pass ( or attempted pass) to a player in often a worse position?
Are you trying to say he's the King of hospital passes?
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Yep
I was shocked at the post game negativity on the Fern
I was buzzing
I was thankful we secured an ugly win against the old foe to keep the Eden Park record intact.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
We need to show a little more courage, and expose them to the top teams without tossing them in the deep end
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
We need to show a little more courage, and expose them to the top teams without tossing them in the deep end
Imagine we had the injury crisis now, that we have at 9, but at 10.
So DMAC and Beaudy are out.........then what?
When did we become so spineless at the selection table? If you are good enough you are old enough.
Ruben Love is 2 years older than Joseph Sua'ali'i.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Ways to go yet, but def. getting there.
We re-captured the spirit of the RWC2023 knock-out stages last night and I think that's hugely significant as it's now with a set of forwards with some depth. Hope we can keep doing that.
Need to build some depth from 10-15 pretty urgently though. Looks a bit of a mess to me.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
We need to show a little more courage, and expose them to the top teams without tossing them in the deep end
Picking Leroy Carter or AN Other over Rieko is not the winning or losing of a match.
Why can they not bring themselves to do it?
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
We need to show a little more courage, and expose them to the top teams without tossing them in the deep end
Picking Leroy Carter or AN Other over Rieko is not the winning or losing of a match.
Why can they not bring themselves to do it?
No courage
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
We need to show a little more courage, and expose them to the top teams without tossing them in the deep end
Picking Leroy Carter or AN Other over Rieko is not the winning or losing of a match.
Why can they not bring themselves to do it?
Well it could very well have been yesterday. Bok try when Rieko stopped the try in close could have seen them run over top of us ...
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Ways to go yet, but def. getting there.
We re-captured the spirit of the RWC2023 knock-out stages last night and I think that's hugely significant as it's now with a set of forwards with some depth. Hope we can keep doing that.
Need to build some depth from 10-15 pretty urgently though. Looks a bit of a mess to me.
It's stale Victor.....historically, there was always shinier toys coming in through in the backs.....but we dont pick them anymore. There is a cozy cadre of incumbents.
Milner Skudder got 13 caps.....and then off to the knackers yard.
The likes of Rieko and ALB should not be 80 cappers.
Forwards win matches, backs decide by how much, as the old adage goes.
None of our players bar Jordan can create something out of nothing.
