We are basically a shit team. !0 years ago we had just won a second world cup in a row. My God we have fallen a long way. The bucks stops at the top. Razor is not the savour that was predicted.. SB is no fucking captain either They both have to go. !!!

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

England conceded 12 penalties to 6 and yet won that comfortably.

We needed to do much more when England gave us the ball and needed to work much harder when we didn't have it.

V toothless on attack today. There needs to be a major overhaul of the assistant coaches. Razor ain’t going anywhere. New ideas needed. 0-4 in SA next year is highly possible.

@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:

Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.

Looking to be the worst coached. Thought we might kick on this game - esp after the first quarter. No fucking chance.

I think who ever coaches us, we’re fucked. The backline is genuinely fucked. Not a single person with the exception of Roigard deserves to be picked

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think who ever coaches us, we’re fucked. The backline is genuinely fucked. Not a single person with the exception of Roigard deserves to be picked

Pick players that can be coached. Mould them into a tight unit. Drop the stars if the can’t play for the team. That is NZ rugby. The best international club side. They are a rabble right now.

@kpkanz said in England Vs All Blacks:

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

What to make of that. Some will point to Robertson and his coaching staff, but player for player we just aren’t that good. Our basic skills were poor all night, and have been all year. You can’t really blame the coaches for that.

We bemoaned Rieko last year, but his replacement is no better. We bemoaned Beauden, but McKenzie is hardly any better. Without Roigard we are absolutely fucked at the moment.

Injuries have forced us to try different players - and we have - and lone behold they aren’t better than those in front of them.

I don’t think Razor should be sacked, perhaps one or two of his assistants should be, but if we turn up to South Africa with these same players, we will lose 4-0, and I think that would be terminal.

Leicester and Tupaea are miles ahead of Rieko.

Dmac is miles ahead of Beauden, Dmac didn't get to play with Roigard like Beauden got to in the first half.

The step down from Roigard is massive. Without his boot we end up getting stuck in our 22.

We conceded 209 points in 11 tests which Rieko started last year. That included two tests in South Africa, two at home to England, and away games at England, Ireland and France.

We have shipped 264 in 13 tests this year, but that includes playing twice at home against South Africa, and playing three against a second rate French side. It’s a vastly softer draw.

The eye test is also telling. We are so vulnerable up the middle.

@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:

@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:

I think who ever coaches us, we’re fucked. The backline is genuinely fucked. Not a single person with the exception of Roigard deserves to be picked

Pick players that can be coached. Mould them into a tight unit. Drop the stars if the can’t play for the team. That is NZ rugby. The best international club side. They are a rabble right now.

In my mind, that excludes BB, Dmac, and Tupaea. They seem uncoachable

@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:

We've gone backwards in so many areas, but the worse thing is we now simply give up at times. Wholesale change needed at the top from NZR down - some serious reviews of where the game is and what the issues are needed

Scott Robertson is clearly out of his depth. Spent his 1st year learning the ropes and his second year producing some of the worst AB displays I've seen. May be great with Hamner 3rds and a crusaders side but found out at Test level

To all those people who told us all was good in NZ Rugby world and we only needed a new coach to fix everything, fuck off.

You cant run test footy on vibes.

Rassie understands the rules are shite, the refs are shite etc. He also acknowledges workloads and understands dressing room cultures.

He is coach, diplomat, propagandist, cheerleader all rolled into one.

NZRU and Robertson and Foster before him hope/expect the refs and TMO's will do right by them and hope/expect that all our second and 3rd string players will hang around for the chance to get one cap.

Rassie keeps 50/60 boys feeling included, interested, feeling loved and makes sure he holds every person outside their camp be it refs, administrators or opposition players to account.

Thats leadership.

Think it's time to put a line through B Barrett, Savea, ALB, Kirifi, Proctor, and Ratima. Just not very good.

Parker mediocre.

@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.

"Our basic skills" translates to selecting a first five that couldn't win a Beauden Barrett lookalike contest and a captain with the resolve of a teaspoon of sugar. I could do better.

Sure, but that lets soooo many others off lightly.

Our attack shape is horrible.
The players (outside of the has-beens) are all there.

We genuinely have the worst attacking shape in international rugby.

Why does Scott Barrett handle the ball every time we go to the backs with his delayed pivot pass that is moronicly predictable? WHY?

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Tim Nope. That was 2012.

View embedded content

Nooo that must be some AI. That says the ABs had Jane and Nonu, Conrad and McCaw, Mealamu and Whitelock. And this was Hansen basically photocopying Henry’s playbook. I thought they were ruthless and calm and well coached.

Tuilagi and Barrit ripped us a new one that night.

I hope Jason Holland or Leon McDonald write a book.

Somebody needs to spit on a racehorse.....and soon.

This game once again highlights that Josh Jacomb simply had to get out of the Chiefs. I have no idea if the guy is the answer, but we need multiple young 10s playing week in week out. Instead you’re going to see DMac, BB, Brett Cameron, and whoever the Highlanders serve up playing the majority of the minutes at 10. It’s insane to me NZR didn’t step in.

@Fale009 said in England Vs All Blacks:

Razor needs to show some balls and drop a fair few of his veterans. He won't though because you get the feeling that he's coaching for his job at the moment. The fact that we've gone an entire year without even blooding another 10 just speaks volumes about how much of a pussy Razor is.

That you J? Or little bro?

@Tim said in England Vs All Blacks:

Think it's time to put a line through B Barrett, Savea, ALB, Kirifi, Proctor, and Ratima. Just not very good.

Parker mediocre.

You just reminded me that Parker was playing today.

South Africa dont give a fuck about the Currie Cup. There main focus is the boks. Brutal forward pack build to dominate. A kicking game with runners create chaos. Simple but affective. No forwards with behind the back play just up the guts. Fuck this is so frustrating.

@ACT-Crusader Rumour has it some of the guys went and saw the Rolling Stones on the Sunday before that Test and some of them got invited to the band's after party and were still feeling the effects a few days later.

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:

@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:

A new coach won’t fix our lack of basic skills.

"Our basic skills" translates to selecting a first five that couldn't win a Beauden Barrett lookalike contest and a captain with the resolve of a teaspoon of sugar. I could do better.

Sure, but that lets soooo many others off lightly.

I struggle to see how selection isn't a major issue that sees "sooooo" many others not even involved.

We use our penalties better and we defend more intelligently and we win that test.

England's score board management, attacking shape and defensive organisation were in a different league to ours.

Well it a bit strange. I not feeling absolutely gutted (disappointed of course), I just don't think this AB team is good enough to really deserve a Grand Slam and go into the ranks of the good teams that have done it.

Time to go rewatch Otago win the ranfurly shield to try and take my mind of this shit show

@sparky England played average, with little direction and just fed off mistakes and awful play. They didn't even get out of second gear and subs made it even more messy.

That's our game and they rolled, bowled and arseholed us.

@Dan54 said in England Vs All Blacks:

Well it a bit strange. I not feeling absolutely gutted (disappointed of course), I just don't think this AB team is good enough to really deserve a Grand Slam and go into the ranks of the good teams that have done it.

I remember thinking at the time 2008 grand slam team was a much weaker side than usual, but what I would give for them now!!

@Bones And that's why I'm not that upset.

Better leadership, especially at First Five, and we are a comfortably better team.

The evidence and the solution have been starring this coaching panel in the face for some time.

This is fixable next year, if there is a will to do so.

BB, SB, Savea time to move on. Time to rebuild before it gets worse. Passengers like ALB and a few others need to finish up too.
Build a team around Roigard as Captain and take it from there and weed out the rest over the next year.
Parker, Proctor and possibly even Carter haven't stepped up unfortunately.
Front row and locks mostly ok.
Find a safe old school no.10 and look for flair elsewhere. Midfield is tough, no one standing out.

@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:

Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.

I don't think so.
I think the game plan and captaincy is very weak.

Well we consider that 3/4 which I'm sure most thought was mild success. But fuck that's an awful loss

Ratima was poor when he came on.

Not sure what's happened with him as he used to give quick ball and get it out without thinking. Now he pisses around and slows the tempo.

@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Bones And that's why I'm not that upset.

Better leadership, especially at First Five, and we are a comfortably better team.

The evidence and the solution have been starring this coaching panel in the face for some time.

This is fixable next year, if there is a will to do so.

I don't care about next year.

Scott Barrett and Ardie Savea not playing SR next year is looking a massive gamble by them and a huge get-out-jail opportunity for the selectors

@Bones But you will.

@BerniesCorner said in England Vs All Blacks:

@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:

Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.

I don't think so.
I think the game plan and captaincy is very weak.

Yes agreed, overall mentality is very weak.

The first 30 minutes should have seen us build a lead that England would have been unable to come back against.

But they went in st half time the happier team.

We are poor

@cgrant said in England Vs All Blacks:

Is it the weakest AB side of the professional era ? I am tending to think so.

No, that honour would still belong to the Taine Randell-led All Blacks…

Haven't seen a TV yet.
What was the yellow for.
Why did Roigard go off

@hikastags said in England Vs All Blacks:

Ratima was poor when he came on.

Not sure what's happened with him as he used to give quick ball and get it out without thinking. Now he pisses around and slows the tempo.

Should be Fakatava on the bench.

@Jet

Ruben Love clocking up air miles to watch Beauden Barrett do a rugby equivalent of Karaoke.

That’s gold and on point ,
Did’nt the Blues win a super title without Barrett ?
The obsession with BB is beyond comprehension , he is now way more rocks than diamonds , does’nt challenge the line either

Theres question marks on both the coach and the skipper for mine theres a few that just need to be moved on including the skipper as a previous poster said some of the old brigade needs to be moved on starting with Scooter and Beauden
Cody Taylor still deserves his place and should be the skipper imo
Ardie has been really quiet on this tour but i’m unsure in terms of an out and 7 where we go atm
Possibly Lakai or Du Plessis Kirifi ? or does Dalton Papallii come back into the picture

I have no idea why the midfield combo of Tupaea and Faianganuku was changed , i have seen nothing in Proctor to suggest hes an international 13 for all the critique Reiko Ioane had about his lack of ability to put his outsides away at least he could defend

I thought this test was an ideal opportunity to unleash Caleb Tangitau but once again they changed combo who looked good in the game against Scotland

Personally i cant see NZ Rugby changing the coach out , but will the coach have the fortitude to make some tough calls .?
With the RWC only just under 2 years away if NZ Rugby needed to make a change it needs happen right happen at the end of this tour.

@Tanifulla This isn't go to sting for decades in the way that meltdown against France at the same found in 1999 did.

We've all forgotten about getting fucked over by the officials because we were so shit.