@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate LF is holding the ball incorrectly. So when he’s hit in a tackle or goes to ground there’s a higher chance of it being hit out or spilling on impact. Nonu and Lauaki had similar issues early in their careers. Clarke had a bad patch of losing the ball when he first came on to the scene.

Worth persisting with as a bench option if he tidies that up.

Will he be better than Timoci in super rugby next year? They are sort of auditioning for one position

LF has shown more than Timoci this year in test rugby.

@KiwiMurph said in England v All Blacks:

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate LF is holding the ball incorrectly. So when he’s hit in a tackle or goes to ground there’s a higher chance of it being hit out or spilling on impact. Nonu and Lauaki had similar issues early in their careers. Clarke had a bad patch of losing the ball when he first came on to the scene.

Worth persisting with as a bench option if he tidies that up.

Will he be better than Timoci in super rugby next year? They are sort of auditioning for one position

LF has shown more than Timoci this year in test rugby.

Timoci's error rate in Tests is something Leicester should aspire to.

@antipodean said in England v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in England v All Blacks:

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate LF is holding the ball incorrectly. So when he’s hit in a tackle or goes to ground there’s a higher chance of it being hit out or spilling on impact. Nonu and Lauaki had similar issues early in their careers. Clarke had a bad patch of losing the ball when he first came on to the scene.

Worth persisting with as a bench option if he tidies that up.

Will he be better than Timoci in super rugby next year? They are sort of auditioning for one position

LF has shown more than Timoci this year in test rugby.

Timoci's error rate in Tests is something Leicester should aspire to.

I thought he was okay until his run was cut short by injury

@KiwiMurph To be fair to TT, he got two bench appearances against France. Very conceivable he causes Scotland all sorts of problems.

@sparky said in England v All Blacks:

@ploughboy Steve Devine has said the same thing:

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Razor is the head coach, surely he just needs to lay down the law to the other coaches.

No men, no brain, no men no cry... they lack a leader in that backline. All are individual players who think about their stat.

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate LF is holding the ball incorrectly. So when he’s hit in a tackle or goes to ground there’s a higher chance of it being hit out or spilling on impact. Nonu and Lauaki had similar issues early in should careers. Clarke had a bad patch of losing the ball when he first came on to the scene.

Worth persisting with as a bench option if he tidies that up.

Will he be better than Timoci in super rugby next year? They are sort of auditioning for one position

Given how this season has gone I’d say everyone should be auditioning for next year selection

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate LF is holding the ball incorrectly. So when he’s hit in a tackle or goes to ground there’s a higher chance of it being hit out or spilling on impact. Nonu and Lauaki had similar issues early in should careers. Clarke had a bad patch of losing the ball when he first came on to the scene.

Worth persisting with as a bench option if he tidies that up.

Will he be better than Timoci in super rugby next year? They are sort of auditioning for one position

Given how this season has gone I’d say everyone should be auditioning for next year selection

Starting with Razor....

@pourfasse said in England v All Blacks:

No men, no brain, no men no cry... they lack a leader in that backline. All are individual players who think about their stat.

I’m all for a bit scathing hyper-bowl but this isn’t basketball or cricket. I doubt any of them are seriously thinking about their stats.

@ACT-Crusader Look how Jordan is playing. He only thinks about doing meters and scoring tries. He was often waiting around the rucks. He did nothing. His tackles are soft.

@pourfasse They canned the defensive leader, Ioane, for a guy who was a complete dud in the SR playoffs in the past two seasons (Proctor). Low IQ coaches.

@pourfasse we often have one of our outside backs around the ruck in attack.
We want him to carry because he actually makes metres when he does.

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@pourfasse we often have one of our outside backs around the ruck in attack.
We want him to carry because he actually makes metres when he does.

I don't know the stats. But it wouldn't surprise me if the backs make more metres than the forwards

@ACT-Crusader said in England v All Blacks:

@pourfasse we often have one of our outside backs around the ruck in attack.
We want him to carry because he actually makes metres when he does.

Sounds good, except when he's doing it on defence too, without even opening his gob and just walking around a handful of metres behind it - that does smell to me a lot like "I'm awaiting a miracle turnover or ball bobbling out so I can get an eye catching run".

think it was the Ben Youngs and Dan Cole podcast that suggested that England are playing better than the sum of their parts. They mentioned that if you picked a world XV today barely any Englishmen would make it in and I have to agree with the possible exception of Itoje / Underhill / Curry who would be there or there abouts. Some may become world class but almost none are.

With the ABs, I would say that the cattle are in a similar position, I don't think there are many that would make it into a world XV, but the coaching seems not to be making the best of them at the moment. The lack of direction and intensity on Saturday was something i can't remember seeing from the ABs, don't know if they're not drilled well enough (particularly in defence), or if they're not fit enough, or simply not understanding instructions. Playing 10 behind a pack going backwards in almost every contact (except the lineout) is always horrible and even the best players look can look awful. BB looks a bit lost at the moment

@Dodge said in England v All Blacks:

BB looks a bit lost at the moment

He's the highest paid All Black and the 5th most test-capped player of all time. He should be the last to look lost.

Razor’s either coaching some of this junk or he’s allowing it to happen. No consequences.

Anyone heard from Ellison lately? Used to be the master of the acerbic half time interview.

Watching this game, I remember thinking how lucky we were that England weren’t playing better. They had a chance to put more than 25 in a row in us.

The score massively flattered us.

The moment Mick Byrne left the ABs our kicking and high ball has gone to shyte.

@Kirwan said in England v All Blacks:

Watching this game, I remember thinking how lucky we were that England weren’t playing better. They had a chance to put more than 25 in a row in us.

The score massively flattered us.

We should have won that. Coaching own goal.

@Dodge England are a damn good side at the moment. Lots of balance to their game, they are really well drilled and confident in what they are doing, they have threat in so many aspects of their play, young guys like Feyi-Waboso, Pollock and Pepper are coming on leaps and bounds at the moment.

The Triple Crown, the Six Nations Title and the Grand Slam are all realistic objectives for England in the spring and making the Nations Championship final and the World Cup Final beyond that.

There was no shame in losing to England.

What there was deep shame in for the All Blacks was the manner of the defeat and the performance that proceeded it. We were way off.

Is this the first year that no AB has been nominated for mens player of the year??

@Young-Hamiltons said in England v All Blacks:

Is this the first year that no AB has been nominated for mens player of the year??

If you were picking a world 15 , I can’t remember a time when there would be so few allblacks in it .

So a little bit of inside knowledge from a source there’s tremendous friction in the camp (don’t know what about they wouldn’t spill) and that after that loss to England in the weekend Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

He seems like a good guy who shouldn't be in that position.

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

So a little bit of inside knowledge from a source there’s tremendous friction in the camp (don’t know what about they wouldn’t spill) and that after that loss to England in the weekend Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

You'd have to think there is a terminal problem with harmony within the group, either between the coaches, the coaches and players, the players themselves, or a combination. Even in Fozzie's darkest hours there did not appear to be cracks within the group themselves. Or at least no one broke ranks.

The bold play will be to bin the coaching group and at least salvage some of the wider player group, install someone for two years who can at least rebuild some esprit de corp within the team. I'm not sure NZR have the balls or the appetite for that

The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

So a little bit of inside knowledge from a source there’s tremendous friction in the camp.

This rumour has been doing the rounds since August at least. If anyone has any precise details, I'm all ears.

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

May sound stupid, but good for him. Indicates passion.

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

I'm not sure NZR have the balls or the appetite for that

Or the money, possibly.

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

I'd expect nothing less from an All Blacks captain in the circumstances.

One of the All Black great strengths over the years is that they fucking hate losing.

@Tim said in England v All Blacks:

@mikey07 said in England v All Blacks:

Scott Barrett was on the verge of tears in the changing sheds.

He seems like a good guy who shouldn't be in that position.

Hes definitely got that Taine Randall look right now

@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:

The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.

I didn't notice that during the game but if you're right, disharmony within the group or not, that is piss poor from a professional player.

@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:

The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.

Got a time in the game?

@booboo said in England v All Blacks:

@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:

The way Jordan stopped running when Darry threw him a bad pass looked very much like 'fuck these useless fluffybunnies, I'm not cleaning that up'. Not a good look, especially from someone strong on the shit pass himself.

Got a time in the game?

76:35

It's the English try to Roebuck after Pollock toe-d it through

I do think that the players that have been selected should be playing better than they are. That fault lies squarely on the coaching setup. If the rumours are true, there doesn't seem to be a lot of trust within the group, and that is borne out on the field. In the offseason there needs to be a no holds barred exit process, including confidential feedback from the players. Identify the problems in the team and make proper changes

@Young-Hamiltons said in England v All Blacks:

Is this the first year that no AB has been nominated for mens player of the year??

Three Boks have, that seems a lot

@sparky said in England v All Blacks:

@Dodge England are a damn good side at the moment. Lots of balance to their game, they are really well drilled and confident in what they are doing, they have threat in so many aspects of their play, young guys like Feyi-Waboso, Pollock and Pepper are coming on leaps and bounds at the moment.

The Triple Crown, the Six Nations Title and the Grand Slam are all realistic objectives for England in the spring and making the Nations Championship final and the World Cup Final beyond that.

There was no shame in losing to England.

What there was deep shame in for the All Blacks was the manner of the defeat and the performance that proceeded it. We were way off.

We beat England reasonably comfortably in all 3 games last year. This manner of win shows that England have clearly improved while we have either stagnated or gone backwards.