@Jet

I have zero problem with Ratima swapping jerseys with Pollock and welcome it. It's always been part of the game since time immemorial. Meads used to take cases of beer into the opposition's dressing room after a game. Said it was how he made so many friends in the game.

I actually find that Nonu story hard to believe. Nonu is/was renowned for fraternising with opposition players and how it was key to his love for the game. So much so, he once broke his arm and made a point of leaving his jersey on his opposite number's peg before heading off to the hospital.

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I give you Jerome Kaino......

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Good lord. What a complete load of wank.

Two young players swapped a jersey. A photo was taken of just after it, clearly with little planning.

Hate to tell you this, but if losing teams didn’t want to swap …. You could only do it when you drew.

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on here

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

@MajorRage said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Good lord. What a complete load of wank.

Two young players swapped a jersey. A photo was taken of just after it, clearly with little planning.

Hate to tell you this, but if losing teams didn’t want to swap …. You could only do it when you drew.

You're misreading me.

You go and hand the jersey, shake the hand and walk away. Maybe do it in corridor.

It shouldnt be ceremonial. You shouldnt be smiling. You should be filthy. You avoid a photo if possible.

Ratima looks like someone who won a prize to be there.

All these little percentages of beta behaviour are compounding.

We used to be aresholes, sure, but we were winners.

@SammyC said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on here

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

Pre social media. Pre camera phones. Pre professionalism.

Ratima is like Henry Pollocks nephew there.

Its like Kolisi with his arm around young Sititi saying "im so proud of him".

Kolisi should be spat out the back of a ruck covered in stud marks. We dont need your patronage mate.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet

I have zero problem with Ratima swapping jerseys with Pollock and welcome it. It's always been part of the game since time immemorial. Meads used to take cases of beer into the opposition's dressing room after a game. Said it was how he made so many friends in the game.

I actually find that Nonu story hard to believe. Nonu is/was renowned for fraternising with opposition players and how it was key to his love for the game. So much so, he once broke his arm and made a point of leaving his jersey on his opposite number's peg before heading off to the hospital.

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I give you Jerome Kaino......

View image

Nonu story 21:47 mins in this podcast.

I just relistened. He said they are notorious for not letting people in to their dressing room. But they come into yours. They didnt swap after Chicago. Conor Murray tells the story of how it was O'Mahoney going in to get McCaws jersey after the 60-0 drubbing in Hamilton in 2012 and Nonu refused him entry.

I don't mind them making friendly after the match. That is the way it is today. As long as we smashed the crap out of them on the pitch first. I'm not sure it's about lack of effort for many of our players. It all starts with selection and game plan to give our best combination of players the chance to excel

@SammyC said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on here

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

ABs have almost always invited opposition in for a beer , remember McCaw and Jerry Collins talking about it. I like it, I of the old school where you beat the shit out of each other and as soon as whistle goes you all mate playing same sport!
I know one of reasons that Umaga and Gregan both ended up playing for Toulon, they talked about playing in same team while having beers after a test.

@Dan54 said in England v All Blacks:

@SammyC said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on here

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

ABs have almost always invited opposition in for a beer , remember McCaw and Jerry Collins talking about it. I like it, I of the old school where you beat the shit out of each other and as soon as whistle goes you all mate playing same sport!

It's one of the great things about rugby. Unlike say football fans, rugby fans of all teams are generally happy to have a chat anytime

Social media is a big part of today's game, look at Ardie, that dance by the English players, yep dinosaur, dont have to like it, but it is part of the game and won't.be going away.

@taniwharugby said in England v All Blacks:

Social media is a big part of today's game, look at Ardie, that dance by the English players, yep dinosaur, dont have to like it, but it is part of the game and won't.be going away.

Yep, and I am what is probably labelled a dinosaur, but bugger me, we need to see these posts . So Ardie sweeping the floor f*** anyone who it upsets, same as Pollock and mates dancing, I like the kids has a personality. We need these things in our game!

@canefan said in England v All Blacks:

@Dan54 said in England v All Blacks:

@SammyC said in England v All Blacks:

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there mate".

Thats Henry Pollock. Englands youngest player, shithouse in chief, and Cortez Ratima is gurning with him for a photo after a rubbish performance himself.

I know im a dinosaur, but I preferred when our boys were aloof, unapproachable, hard nosed, miserable looking bastards.

You are giving Pollock an inch there. It's all cosy. "These Allblack lads are sound".

Imagine Austin Healy sat beside Tana Umaga in the dressing room...........

Maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on here

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

ABs have almost always invited opposition in for a beer , remember McCaw and Jerry Collins talking about it. I like it, I of the old school where you beat the shit out of each other and as soon as whistle goes you all mate playing same sport!

It's one of the great things about rugby. Unlike say football fans, rugby fans of all teams are generally happy to have a chat anytime

Yep mate, one of reasons I really enjoy going to tests is before and after games in a pub , I will generally try and have beers with opposition supporters, it just part of why I have always followed our game, I in general enjoy the company of rugby people!

@Dan54 IIRC the floor sweeping thing has always been a part of what these guys did, but add in the SM and you have today's game.

@taniwharugby said in England v All Blacks:

@Dan54 IIRC the floor sweeping thing has always been a part of what these guys did, but add in the SM and you have today's game.

Motive is the thing right.

Sweeping the floors because it's what you do, you tidy up after yourself is one thing. Performative sweeping to make social media posts about it sucks.

Feels like early on it was clearly the former. No idea any more, I'd like to given them the benefit of the doubt, but anyone calling attention to doing scut work with social media posts makes me a bit uneasy. And I freely acknowledge I don't like SM and am a generation or two removed from the lads these days.

@nzzp yeah I think that's it for us Inbetweeners - it's performative. Virtue signalling. It's very hard to detour around the fakeness of it all.

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

I just relistened. He said they are notorious for not letting people in to their dressing room. But they come into yours. They didnt swap after Chicago. Conor Murray tells the story of how it was O'Mahoney going in to get McCaws jersey after the 60-0 drubbing in Hamilton in 2012 and Nonu refused him entry.

Sounds like complete horseshit to me. McCaw's AB's were known for getting together with the opposition - giving presentations to new caps playing against them and post-match public presentations to opposing players reaching 100 Tests (Habana, Slipper, AWJ etc)

@Victor-Meldrew did McCaw play in 2016?

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

Its like Kolisi with his arm around young Sititi saying "im so proud of him".

Kolisi should be spat out the back of a ruck covered in stud marks. We dont need your patronage mate

Jeez mate, better turn your TV off right after the final whistle. You'll be shocked by the number of players hugging the opposition.

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew did McCaw play in 2016?

He did in 2012 which is what Conor Murray is referring to.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew did McCaw play in 2016?

He did in 2012 which is what Conor Murray is referring to.

So AWJ isn't who I think it is?

And Slipper isn't Ben Slipper?

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

And Slipper isn't Ben Slipper?

No. His brother Clutch

I can see where Jet is getting annoyed. I think most of us would agree being friendly with the opposition, the odd photo and social media post is fine, after a top quality performance on the field. And that’s the issue - some of these guys are walking around during games like they couldn’t care less, seem like they’re not worried following a loss and don’t go into the next game with a point to prove. There are a few factors contributing to this but it’s painful to watch.

@Jet said in England v All Blacks:

View image

This is why we are where we are.

There is no edge.

I listened to a podcast recently where Conor Murray told an anecdote from his new book of how he tried to go into the Allblacks dressing room to get a jersey swap and Ma'a Nonu was stood outside eating.

He turns to Murray and says "where are you going?" "eh I was going in to swap a shirt" "you're not going in there.

I think that story is total bollocks.

The All Blacks are famous the Rugby world over for their hospitality after the game.

@ShaquilleOatmeal

Yeah, I'm equally annoyed with heartless performances of late.

But I'd be more annoyed if the players added to that shitty-ness by not fraternising with the opposition

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

And Slipper isn't Ben Slipper?

No. His brother Clutch

I'm really struggling to reconcile someone calling another post horseshit when their own post talks about RM celebrating players hitting their hundred after RM retired, in some cases many years. What am I misreading?

@nzzp if you sweep the floor after a game and no one is there to record it for SM, did you really sweep it?

@Victor-Meldrew There's a long passage in McCaw's book that says his attitude was before and during the game it was binary. Your job was to win and make the opposition lose.

After the game, you're all Rugby players together and it's time to forge friendships.

Long may those values continue. The game is bigger than any player, even the . It's bigger than any team.

Cheikas Wallabies refused to mix in the sheds post match if I recall.

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

And Slipper isn't Ben Slipper?

No. His brother Clutch

I'm really struggling to reconcile someone calling another post horseshit when their own post talks about RM celebrating players hitting their hundred after RM retired, in some cases many years. What am I misreading?

The original post

"Conor Murray tells the story of how it was O'Mahoney going in to get McCaws jersey after the 60-0 drubbing in Hamilton in 2012 and Nonu refused him entry.

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in England v All Blacks:

@Bones said in England v All Blacks:

And Slipper isn't Ben Slipper?

No. His brother Clutch

I'm really struggling to reconcile someone calling another post horseshit when their own post talks about RM celebrating players hitting their hundred after RM retired, in some cases many years. What am I misreading?

The original post

"Conor Murray tells the story of how it was O'Mahoney going in to get McCaws jersey after the 60-0 drubbing in Hamilton in 2012 and Nonu refused him entry.

Your response.

McCaw's AB's were known for getting together with the opposition - giving presentations to new caps playing against them and post-match public presentations to opposing players reaching 100 Tests (Habana, Slipper, AWJ etc)

Mils saying the All Blacks are disconnected and were fatigued at Twickenham, but dancing around whether Robertson should be dumped.

And I'm not sure what McCaw's ABs were doing at a test match between SA and AUS in 2014.

Well that was an argument that polarised things wasn't it?

FWIW, my two pennyworth.

Win, lose or draw. You act with dignity. You don't decide whether to swap shirts, have a beer or a chat with the opposition dependent upon the result or how sulky your fans might be in their judgement of your "commitment".

The Nonu story? I don't know if it is true or not but from what I have come to expect from the man, it was firstly, unlikely and secondly if it was true then he would have had a good reason to be that unreasonable.

The TikTok dance thing: well it turns out that the TikTok dances were actually fines for whatever made up misdemeanours hade been judged upon, the Freeman one got exposure whereas all the others got binned pretty quickly. In today's SM world, once it's out there, then it's out there.

The Savea floor sweeping? Haven't seen it, don't want to see it, but if it is an "official" AB fluff piece that is on NZR and not on Savea.

In short boys and girls, have a bit of understanding, judge the guys on their performances by all means but let them be normal guys after the game.

@SammyC said in England v All Blacks:

Colin meads used to make a point of taking beers into the opposition sheds after the game

yeah but what did he know about being a hard fluffybunny

there are few things i hate more than the "this is why rugby is the greatest game of all" wankery that on-line rugby fans absolutely loooove to indulge in when ever any rugby player acts even remotely like a normal human being.

but holy shit, the very foundation of the game is beat the piss out of each other for 80 minutes, shake hands and get a beer. If we could do it when rucking was allowed and punches got warnings, then we should absolutely do it in the modern day "no one can get hurt" era.

Are we looking for things to whinge about? So there is a post of Ardie sweeping the floor, or Poms dancing etc.
FFS everyone just surely does what suits them and I can't really see why it getting a few panties all twisted.
If you want to have a talk with opposition after game, great, if you don't also great.
I will give example, when I first went to Aussie and got talked into coaching, at the first preseason game the players all lined up and shook hands before the game! After the game ,I asked what the story was, and was told that's what they do over there. I quietly explained that no f***en team I coached would shake hands before the game, and I expected every player to shake hands and hopefully have a beer after the game, with the survivors , they would remember it!.
I wasn't even happy with players talking to opposition before game if it came to that.

I know probably showing age etc, but f*** it, standards fellas!

@Dan54 said in England v All Blacks:

Are we looking for things to whinge about? So there is a post of Ardie sweeping the floor, or Poms dancing etc.
FFS everyone just surely does what suits them and I can't really see why it getting a few panties all twisted.
If you want to have a talk with opposition after game, great, if you don't also great.
I will give example, when I first went to Aussie and got talked into coaching, at the first preseason game the players all lined up and shook hands before the game! After the game ,I asked what the story was, and was told that's what they do over there. I quietly explained that no f***en team I coached would shake hands before the game, and I expected every player to shake hands and hopefully have a beer after the game, with the survivors , they would remember it!.
I wasn't even happy with players talking to opposition before game if it came to that.

I know probably showing age etc, but f*** it, standards fellas!

The first standard I judge loose forwards by is ruck involvement.

In of itself the SM post is fine, but taking in the wider perspective the picture tells a different story.

Cleaning up after yourself is basically a good thing. Recording it and posting it to social media to get congratulated for it is fucked up.

@Dan54 said in England v All Blacks:

the players all lined up and shook hands before the game

that took a bit of getting used to