It’s so frustrating seeing us piss around picking first choice players on the bench on purpose, front row is insane. Also disappointed we’re going with Ford at 10 instead of investing in Smith (either frankly). Steward isn’t good enough.
The sad thing for me is that I think this AB side is beatable - much more so than it’s felt in the past, and yet we are fiddling around with things we have control over that will potentially cost us the game.
Borthwick is such a lump
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Not sure if this has been posted but Caleb Tangitau has joined the ABs squad in London.
That is absurd to me. He has gaping holes in his game he needs to address.
So does Reece, so does Carter. So did NMS. So did Jonah.
And it's just for training.
Fortunately we’ve had the flawless Ralph, Hamilton and Bridge over the years to balance out those gaping holes….
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
If you’re feeling sentimental and bored, rewatch the first 2017 lions test again. Dagg was genuinely unreal that game with his kicking and ability to tidy up shit ball. Amazing to think we had Mils, Dagg, Smith consecutively
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
If you’re feeling sentimental and bored, rewatch the first 2017 lions test again. Dagg was genuinely unreal that game with his kicking and ability to tidy up shit ball. Amazing to think we had Mils, Dagg, Smith consecutively
We've had a real inability to play out of our own half, particularly after receiving kick offs, since Dagg finished.
@Dodge said in England Vs All Blacks:
It’s so frustrating seeing us piss around picking first choice players on the bench on purpose, front row is insane. Also disappointed we’re going with Ford at 10 instead of investing in Smith (either frankly). Steward isn’t good enough.
The sad thing for me is that I think this AB side is beatable - much more so than it’s felt in the past, and yet we are fiddling around with things we have control over that will potentially cost us the game.
Borthwick is such a lump
It’s so frustrating seeing us piss around picking first choice players on the bench on purpose. The back row is insane. Disappointed we’re going with BB at 10 instead of investing in DMac
The sad thing for me is that I think this England side is beatable - much more so than it’s felt in the past, and yet we are fiddling around with things we have control over that will potentially cost us the game.
Razor is such a lump
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
@antipodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Not sure if this has been posted but Caleb Tangitau has joined the ABs squad in London.
That is absurd to me. He has gaping holes in his game he needs to address.
So does Reece, so does Carter. So did NMS. So did Jonah.
And it's just for training.Fortunately we’ve had the flawless Ralph, Hamilton and Bridge over the years to balance out those gaping holes….
Ralph Hamilton Bridge sounds like a great name for the next structure built over the Avon.
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Nah, he was the short guy in Shrek
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
Alternative : ENS
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Apparently that’s the correct pronunciation! 
️
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Apparently that’s the correct pronunciation!
Ok parkman
@brodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@restofit said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
CLW, Josh Beehre and Caleb Tangitau added to the squad as training cover.
Finau and Jacobsen are heading home
Clarke, Jordan, Tangitau - the back 3 for 2027 World Cup?
It sounds exciting but I honestly don't see us winning an RWC with Jordan at 15.
We need someone at fullback with a better aerial game, a better boot, and a better play making ability.
@Canes4life said in England Vs All Blacks:
Not sure if this has been posted but Caleb Tangitau has joined the ABs squad in London.
"Looks like the policemen have themselves an R.V"
@Jet said in England Vs All Blacks:
@brodean said in England Vs All Blacks:
@restofit said in England Vs All Blacks:
@DaGrubster said in England Vs All Blacks:
CLW, Josh Beehre and Caleb Tangitau added to the squad as training cover.
Finau and Jacobsen are heading home
Clarke, Jordan, Tangitau - the back 3 for 2027 World Cup?
It sounds exciting but I honestly don't see us winning an RWC with Jordan at 15.
We need someone at fullback with a better aerial game, a better boot, and a better play making ability.
- Clarke
- Leicester
- Tupea
- Jordan
- Jordie
Can Leicester pass?
Can Jordie run?
Can Tupaea defend at 13?
Does any of it matter in the slightest if BB is at 10?
Posters who are complaining about the videos of the All Blacks training this week should take notice of this clip of England training this week:
Apparently Emma Raducanu was given a shirt with the number 13 on because it's 13 years since England last beat the All Blacks at Twickenham.
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
If they follow her lead they’re going to need a bigger bench.
And a new coach every year
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
If you’re feeling sentimental and bored, rewatch the first 2017 lions test again. Dagg was genuinely unreal that game with his kicking and ability to tidy up shit ball. Amazing to think we had Mils, Dagg, Smith consecutively
Here's the thing, if you re-watch the 3rd test, Jordie Barrett's debut for the ABs, he was the best player on the field at fullback.
"Jordie Barrett 9
A kick mistake aside, fabulous on big stage debut. Scored try, helped make another, took bombs, even won two All Black kickoffs."
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
But will the coaches even consider that? Highly unlikely, Jordan is their golden boy and they will play him at 15 come hell or high water, despite him offering so much more on the wing.
@pourfasse can you elaborate? He was poor on the wing but has been excellent at 12 and 15 for the ABs. I don't recall him making poor choices, I do remember him saving our wingers bacon on more than one occasion taking every high ball that came our way.
@No-Quarter I don't think Jordie's fast or elusive enough to be a world class fullback, he'd just be a more coordinated Freddie Steward. 12 is also a pretty good position to play to challenge for our own high kicks, and we have already been using him defensively in that role somewhat.
I also think it's more Jordie at 12 that is the golden boy and unlikely to be moved.
Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, or we’re running a dual playmaker today so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:
Hasn’t Jordie’s position been determined like Ardie’s? Guessing selection meetings went like this… ‘’Great player so has to play… but we’ve got Laumape or SBW at 12 so he can play full back…. Looks like Laumape and SBW are gone but now we’ve got this full back called Will, so Jordie can play 12’’
Pace at full back is not the be all and end all. Look at some of the great players there. The wingers had the gas, they had everything else.
No, but it is important - and particularly for how we play.
Gallagher, Wright, Crowley, Timu, Howarth, Osborne, Cullen, Wilson, Mils, Dagg, Smith, Beauden, McKenzie, Jordan.
Most of that list - and all of the good ones - I reckon were either faster or more elusive than Jordie (or both).
@reprobate Fair point from an NZ style of play. Different across other countries.
@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate Fair point from an NZ style of play. Different across other countries.
For sure, but I don't want us to play like them. Both because running rugby is why I love the game, and because I think it is the key to our success.
@No-Quarter no doubt he’s a better player now skill wise. His play at fullback was up and down, not unlike Jordan. I like Jordie in the midfield even more so when his brother is playing 10.
In my view the best fullback we’ve had in the last 10 years has been Beaudie.
@ACT-Crusader said in England Vs All Blacks:
In my view the best fullback we’ve had in the last 10 years has been Beaudie.
Which version of Beaudie? 2025 Beaudie?
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
They've had Jordie in the backfield fielding bombs this year and he's dropped his fair share.
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
@No-Quarter the Saffas put alot of numbers in just as disruptors.
@Chris-B said in England Vs All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb said in England Vs All Blacks:
@stodders said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@frugby said in England Vs All Blacks:
This All Blacks team is screaming for some X-Factor on the wing.
For me that's Will Jordan. He really doesn't have the skills to be a Test 15.
Who does? I’m not convinced by Love (I think he is a 10). Who are the alternatives? NZ are crying out for the new Israel Dagg to make his appearance.
And here's the other thing, Jordie is still in the team, and is an even better player than he was back then, and has the skillset to completely diffuse opposition bombs which are a key weakness for us right now. Jordie is so much better at 15 than Jordan it's not even funny.
They've had Jordie in the backfield fielding bombs this year and he's dropped his fair share.
I watch most teams play, and yet to see a player take all high balls, whether chasing or receiving.
Also with noone beinge able to screen now, it makes it even harder.
@voodoo said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Bones said in England Vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England Vs All Blacks:
Wondering based on training coverage if Lord will get start with Farbian as super sub.
While I'm at it, Lord Farbian is surely a Blackadder character.
Nah, he was the short guy in Shrek
Well they had Blackadder's lord Percy in Shrek.
@No-Quarter said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Chris-B "completely diffuse" is a bit of hyperbole on my part but he's easily our best under the high ball. As per my post in another thread, I don't like the way chasers are allowed to just jump up and slap it back without a genuine attempt to catch it, makes it unfair on the person fielding the kick.
It would be interesting to do a detailed season-wide analysis of catching high balls to verify who is best (and worst). Not just a raw score of catches and drops - but, looking at catches in traffic and outcomes compared with expected outcomes - some sort of rational scoring system and commentary.
Unfortunately, it would probably require "someone" to watch all the games again. Maybe he (or she!) can do it next year! 
