All Blacks vs Springboks II

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Anyway women up in our hotel room in Wellington, and I still pissed at what I saw. I actually said to Mrs, that could save us some money, as I feel I won't probably bother to coming to a test again. I can handle us losing, but not thinking an AB team pulled the plug with 15 minutes to go. If I see any press conference and Razor or anyone makes excuses, apart from pointing out how bad they seem to of been coached and played, I will kick the tv. And I can't afford a new one!

This is such a negative post by your standards Dan, a huge indictment on the team. They have failed us all

I know mate, as a matter of principle, I try to avoid being negative, in here ( or any forum), but like most of us I am hurting!

I woke up in the middle of the night, remembered what happened, and was shocked. Could hardly believe it.

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA f*ck does that mean we can still win it.

Looks to me like anyone can.

Boks have to be favourites tho after last night and games to come at Kings Park and ?Twickenham??

I'm expecting the ABs to roar back into it with a backlash performance at Eden Park, then Perth will determine if they're a shot.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

The other thing, I noticed once we got close to halftime , and until end of game, if we did anything to look at getting a head of steam up, a Bok would go down injured. I know it's a piss off etc, but I never saw Scooter get in refs ear. I was sitting just in front a few touring Bok supporters who laughed and said it was there game. We weren't arguing etc, just agreeing, and the bottom line is if our captain etc are doing job, we should stay switched on anyway!
Was noticeable that they had a wterboy on sideling, conveying message non stop, he would use hand signals, and quite often just hold uo a number of fingers. Again why not us?

Same thing in the BF game. Their big fatties went down periodically with some "injury". Out comes the ice bag and the others are there sucking in the big ones

@booboo

1. Thought Proctor had his best game in black. Not a massively high bar, but saw the glimmerings of promise.

Mate, if his best game includes throwing Kolbe a dog biscuit we’re in trouble.

@game_film said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@booboo

1. Thought Proctor had his best game in black. Not a massively high bar, but saw the glimmerings of promise.

Mate, if his best game includes throwing Kolbe a dog biscuit we’re in trouble.

I'm a fan. But some guys look born ready for the big stage, and I'm not sure he does. Doesn't look any better than Rieko so far, and at least Rieko was a watertight defender

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@NTA f*ck does that mean we can still win it.

Looks to me like anyone can.

Boks have to be favourites tho after last night and games to come at Kings Park and ?Twickenham??

I'm expecting the ABs to roar back into it with a backlash performance at Eden Park, then Perth will determine if they're a shot.

We have been very good for periods. Generally early in a game. But our second half performances have generally been poo. If we can't put enough points on your lot in the first half you should have a chance to pass us down the stretch

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

self-proclaimed visionary

Amongst a heap of flashing orange lights in that write-up... that's a massive red one.

This post-mortem from Two Cents Rugby is as good as anything I've seen and heard outside the Fern since yesterday's disaster.

Only thing I don't like is an All Blacks fan wearing a Springbok jersey. Let the Boks enjoy their triumph and our moment of total humiliation, don't jump on their band wagon.

@sparky He's not jumping on the bandwagon - he always wears the jersey of the lowest ranked team (going into the game)

Although, I have a spare Bok jersey for ya

Just watched the 2nd half again. Williams saved two tries with his sheer pace, he's a freakish talent. The number of X factor backs the Boks have now is scary. In the past you just had to gain parity with their pack and you had them beat, now their backs can create opportunities from all over the field even if you nullify their pack. They are the complete package now.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.

I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.

Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.

2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.

The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.

South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.

Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.

Belter of a post.

Huge factor in this game was how Boks staff work was excellent while ABs’ was pretty average - that midfield sub being just one example.

@PN Give the spare jersey to a South African youngster instead of me, they have EVERY reason to feel proud and be inspired by THEIR team this weekend. They were awesome.

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

4. He's got to find the courage to drop Barrett

SB? BB?

@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Williams saved two tries with his sheer pace

Tamaiti is fast for a big boy, but not that fast...

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

No fucking way?!

All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).

@Dan54
Dan - this has frustrated me for so long. We want to be the Corinthians of rugby but we just need to be more cynical. As others have said - someone gets hit high make the ref/tmo think about it etc - it's not a great look but most top tier nations do it with some success.

Number crunching that game based on the stats on Rugby Pass.

What stands out.

Terrible tackle percentage. 71%
Terrible line out percentage: 69%
Low tackle numbers by the back row. Ardie Savea on 9, Simon Parker and Wallace Sititi on 6. Jordie Barrett (11) and Billy Proctor (10) made the most tackles.

Nine line breaks made but only one of those resulted in a try. South Africa had six tries from eleven line breaks.

I think what Robertson was doing with backrow was all wrong.

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.

Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby

@Devon-Kiwi said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.

Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby

Been going on for longer than that. SA leaving is a red herring IMO. The loss of the middle tier of experienced pros from NZ rugby to Europe and Japan has had a far more damaging effect long term.

These weren’t guys that would have played for the ABs, but they brought the young guys through and instilled the work ethic and culture of excellence that is now lacking in NZ rugby.

@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Devon-Kiwi said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Sad but we're a paper tiger now. Interesting that our own decline mirrors (at least in my view) the decline of the game as any type of spectacle that's worth watching.

Seems to also mirror the SA teams withdrawing from Super Rugby

Been going on for longer than that. SA leaving is a red herring IMO. The loss of the middle tier of experienced pros from NZ rugby to Europe and Japan has had a far more damaging effect long term.

These weren’t guys that would have played for the ABs, but they brought the young guys through and instilled the work ethic and culture of excellence that is now lacking in NZ rugby.

We have over the hill guys and young guys.

The guys in the middle of their career foxtrot Oscar if they dont get picked for the Allblacks early on.

So we have rookies and a cozy cadre of incumbents who are almost guaranteed selection.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

This one quote sums up his approach perfectly: “I don’t motivate people, I inspire people to be motivated”

I just snorted chocolate milk out my nose.

And I wasn't even drinking chocolate milk.

As it happens I'm reading Fozzie's book at the moment, and this sort of thing seems to align with the change in thinking in the NZR Halls Of Power: the commercial team are holding the reins and Corporate is the only language they speak.

@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

No fucking way?!

All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).

When Razor was first appointed I was pleased. That kind of comment at any level is a disgrace, let alone this level.
With comments like that and this inconsistency I have lost all faith in him and the coaching staff.
No sure if it is now possible but we still have 2 years before the next world cup. Still time for change me thinks !!!

One thing that's very easy to fix.

Start Dalton Papali'i at 7 in the Bledisloe. He managed 19.2 tackles per 80 minutes for the Blues this season.

Those extra hits would have been damn useful on Saturday when so much else turned to custard.

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

And I wasn't even drinking chocolate milk.

Someone's been tootling the rusty trombone.

@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

No fucking way?!

All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).

I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?

Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.

@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

One thing that's very easy to fix.

Start Dalton Papali'i at 7 in the Bledisloe. He managed 19.2 tackles per 80 minutes for the Blues this season.

Those extra hits would have been damn useful on Saturday when so much else turned to custard.

Closest player to Cane on the circuit you reckon?

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

No fucking way?!

All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).

I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?

Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.

To me it feels like passing the buck.

'Well I only have the players for a dozen or so weeks every year, if Kiwis aren't good under the high ball and South Africa are then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.'

On the other hand, it also shows that the All Blacks knew exactly what to expect and still had no idea how to defuse it. Didn't pick the best wing in the squad under the high ball, stuck a player who's historically struggled under the high ball at fullback (McKenzie's skills are above average but he's always been disadvantaged due to his height and one half decent game there last week shouldn't have convinced anyone that he's the best man suited to dealing with the Boks bombs).

So either way, a little bit weak on his behalf.

Can we stop using height as an excuse? Besides which, it felt like DMac dealt with the high ball the best of everyone. Certainly better than the 6'+ other wingers in the squad have.

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Cannot believe in the press conference Razor basically said 'SA practice their aerial game a lot and we can't handle it'. Seriously.

No fucking way?!

All the evidence points to that being the case, but that it actually is and he actually admitted it has me shocked. I think it would actually be better if he just came out and said that our guys are just cowards when it comes to taking high balls (which is what I thought was the actual explanation).

I am probably missing something here, but I don't get why people are upset about this comment. It's true, isn't it?

Also, do you really think it's a good idea for him to say publicly the players are cowards? If he hasn't lost the dressing room already, he will if he says something like that.

To me it feels like passing the buck.

'Well I only have the players for a dozen or so weeks every year, if Kiwis aren't good under the high ball and South Africa are then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.'

On the other hand, it also shows that the All Blacks knew exactly what to expect and still had no idea how to defuse it. Didn't pick the best wing in the squad under the high ball, stuck a player who's historically struggled under the high ball at fullback (McKenzie's skills are above average but he's always been disadvantaged due to his height and one half decent game there last week shouldn't have convinced anyone that he's the best man suited to dealing with the Boks bombs).

So either way, a little bit weak on his behalf.

They did know how to diffuse it, the're not stupid. They just weren't good enough. SA have been fine tuning that part of their game for a while now. NZ has been a bit challenged in mastering that at all levels. A bit like the 'rush' defence, and exits...

And drop goals

SA obviously have a systematic training system that they use to induct all players with.

I wouldn't be surprised if the All Blacks just had Jordan, Mackenzie and Carter stand in a line taking turns to jump in the air and catch unchallenged why Hotham and Christie practiced their box kicks. Maybe the extra work this week was Holland and Hansen put a few kicks up as well

@Crazy-Horse You think the back three they selected were the best possible options given the number of high balls expected?

Maybe NZR should run a training clinic around the NPC right now and identify backs with a natural talent for catching the high ball and these players should be contracted as outside backs in Super Rugby squads.. so their natural skills can be further refined.

@Jet said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

One thing that's very easy to fix.

Start Dalton Papali'i at 7 in the Bledisloe. He managed 19.2 tackles per 80 minutes for the Blues this season.

Those extra hits would have been damn useful on Saturday when so much else turned to custard.

Closest player to Cane on the circuit you reckon?

Yeah he is. Haven't watched him too closely but how about Withy as possibly another option if they refuse to pick Paps? He seems to be in the mould of Cane and Paps. Has a high workrate and is pretty relentless at ruck time from the little I have seen of him..

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Crazy-Horse You think the back three they selected were the best possible options given the number of high balls expected?

No

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

@Crazy-Horse You think the back three they selected were the best possible options given the number of high balls expected?

No

Might not have been clear but that's what I meant by not knowing how to defuse the bombs.

Step 1 - pick the best players under the high ball

If the coaches thought that was the best method to deal with the high kicks then they would've done so, but clearly they thought better... Which to me means they don't know how to deal with high kicks.

If they wanted to run with both Barrett and McKenzie then they should've put the former at the back, at the very least.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

I didn't watch yesterday, so knowing the score and reading the thread I actually expected much worse.

I thought at half time both coaches would have been very happy. We were by far the better team, imposed ourselves and were in front. They had been outplayed but were close.

Huge turning point in that first half was we have an attacking lineout off that awesome BB kick, they have backs down all over the place. Who ever our retard of a lineout caller is, calls an overly complicated lineout, the ref lets thrm close the gap an upset our pod, turnover followed by THAT DMac chip kick. Chance to establish a big lead gone in like 30 seconds.

2nd half again we were actually really good for 29 minutes. Bok try was brilliant off that scrum, but we're in touch. Then two things happen at the same time. We sub a midfielder on our line, and once again our lineout call is idiotic. Try.

The next 4 minutes is an absolute horror show. 2 will Jordan errors, a shocker of a BB kick. Just low IQ rugby. And it never recovers.

South Africa though, wow. That 2nd half was perfect. Fast, accurate and brutal. What should concern everyone in NZ is i do not believe this AB team has that level of rugby in them. Maybe only France do TBH.

Absolute horror show last quarter for us. Absolutely sublime for South Africa. Well done to them I'm very fucking impressed.

The ABs were the better team for first 60. The scrum penalty at 42 went the wrong way ultimately costing us 7 points.

Then around 60 mark TWM started making subs and BB forgot that possession was golden and kicks from our own 22 needed to relieve pressure. KISS.

Still have to rewatch last 10, but we seem stuck with a team which is very good for 60 then misfires horribly once ‘tactical’ substitutions are made.

Can’t we pick some specialist finishers? If not other than the front row leave the starters on for 80.

@pakman right at 61 mins or so, the lineout fell apart with Taukei'aho off, Boks captalized three times, the ABs just got done on the turnover ball and looked dejected, hope codie is back in 2weeks.

@BorderJB McAllister stabilised the scrum, but the lineout went to pieces. Mind you trying a fancy fandango five metres out from our line rather than throwing long wasn’t his call. KISS.