European Club Rugby

@Pot-Hale said in NH club rugby:

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

@Billy-Tell Connacht were good all over the field except line-out, goal kicking and composure in the red zone. Cost them points in this fixture. Marmion was all class wasn't he?

Marion is improving by the game which is great to see some possible depth appearing at 9 - Ireland are paper thin beyond Murray.
Don't know if it's just me but I think Aki has gone off he boil completely this season and looks disgruntled out on the pitch. The recent news about Lam's departure probably hasn't helped either. He's just signed himself up to a 2-year extension with Connacht in April, but I get the feeling that he'd prefer to be elsewhere. He doesn't look happy at all.

I haven't seen too much of his play but I did see one game earlier in the season when he was seemingly put on the bench to have a short run around on an injury comeback. An early injury in the game meant he had to play n unexpected 70 o minutes or so and he was well off the pace.
I suspect that also aggravated whatever injury he is carrying and he hasn't been anywhere near 100% ever since.
That would be incredibly frustrating but is also part and parcel of accepting the big bucks in the NH. Investors want their pound of flesh and players seem to have to play carrying niggles that would see them have time off back home.

No word on Hartley yet, but the RFU see nothing wrong in his action or record

"Dylan Hartley should continue as England captain despite his latest disciplinary issue, according to Rugby Football Union boss Ian Ritchie.

Hooker Hartley, 30, will find out on Wednesday if he will be available for the Six Nations next year after he was sent off for the third time in his career while playing for Northampton.

In total, Hartley has served 54 weeks of suspension during his career.

"I think Dylan's got credit in the bank," Ritchie told BBC Sport."

Christ on a bike. Very, very disappointing.

@MiketheSnow Yeah Mike but please bear in mind this is from the mouth of that twat Ritchie. He has a habit of spouting off, making grand statements that are just his view not that of the RFU. How the fuck he's kept his job is beyond me.

Anyway, back on to the Hartley issue, it wouldn't altogether surprise me if he was banned up to the week before the 6N. Call me cynical but...

@MiketheSnow Aaaand yes. 6 week ban. Back in time for the 6N. Quelle surprises.

Without the mitigating circumstances of Hartley's horriffic record, the offence is only a 1-2 week maximum. So 6 weeks I think is quite harsh.

@MajorRage but his record must come into account when handing down any sentence.

@taniwharugby yeah, my original post not clear. Taking all into account, I think the 6 week ban is fair. As the incident in itself, is not worthy of a 6 week ban.

Also, the use of mitigating was a malapropism.

@MajorRage said in NH club rugby:

@taniwharugby yeah, my original post not clear. Taking all into account, I think the 6 week ban is fair. As the incident in itself, is not worthy of a 6 week ban.

Ah yeah. Poor Hartley was just a bit unlucky. It could have happened to anyone really. It was just a coincidence that it was him that did it. And of course lets not forget, it was an accident like his other accidents. Swinging arms to the back of a head happens all the time.

@profitius ha, I remember a client of the company I used to work for several years ago, had had 8 car accidents in a bit under 18 months, yet none of them, based on the rules in the road code, were his fault.

@profitius Whoosh!!!!!!!

@profitius said in NH club rugby:

Ah yeah. Poor Hartley was just a bit unlucky. It could have happened to anyone really. It was just a coincidence that it was him that did it. And of course lets not forget, it was an accident like his other accidents. Swinging arms to the back of a head happens all the time.

Well to be fair, Hartley's swinging arm (not sure why that's an issue) was going to hit SOB about diaphragm level until SOB, unfortunately, fell in front of him.

@MajorRage said in NH club rugby:

@taniwharugby yeah, my original post not clear. Taking all into account, I think the 6 week ban is fair. As the incident in itself, is not worthy of a 6 week ban.

You'll love the new rules then. Minimum entry point of 6 weeks then other factors.
But then, as the Irish will tell us, kiwis are thugs anyway.

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

@MiketheSnow Aaaand yes. 6 week ban. Back in time for the 6N. Quelle surprises.

More chances than a game of Monopoly.

Let's hope Hartley's head goes in the shed when playing against Wales

According to the report I read this morning he had two weeks added for being a recidivist dickhead and one removed for pleading guilty.
How you only add two weeks after numerous and lengthy previous bans is beyond me. He must be the most banned person currently playing at international level yet he get two weeks? So someone half as bad gets one week added? Someone with a quarter of his record (which would still be substantial) gets nothing?
To then reduce that because he admits he is a dickhead is crazy.

If he was a dangerous driver with his record he would be at the point of jail time (or further jail time). No judge would reduce his sentence because he fronted up and said 'yes, I know I did it again, I just can't help myself'.

The messages sent out are of weakness in the system.

Has anyone seen the footage of a player in Italy tackling the 23 year old female ref?
Fucking nasty incident. Hits her in the back with a flying shoulder. The ball is nowhere near them either.

But the most outrageous part is he only got a 3 year ban. and a YELLOW card.
Should be a life ban and a visit from the police for assault IMO.

Agreed. Dirty bastard.

Great home win for the Scarlets against Toulon

@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:

Great Rare home win for the Scarlets against Toulon
There you go mate. Got your typo sorted.

I just watched the replay of the Clermont v Ulster game. It was a good, entertaining game. Great to see Toeava score the opening try in the first minute! Toeava's season so far has been plagued by injury - it was only his 3rd start of the season (his 5th game overall this season, scoring his first try); it was also his first game (ever) in the European Champions Cup.

Clermont was dominant during the first 55 minutes of the game, scoring 28 unanswered points. Ulster wasn't that bad during that period, but just couldn't get through the French defence and couldn't quite handle some of the elusive Clermontois backs (including Abendanon, Lopez and Fofana) and some strong performing forwards (particularly, Lapandry, Vahaamina and young lock Iturria) , who kept the Ulster defence busy. From the 55th to about the 68th minute, the game seemed to turn and Ulster scored 3 tries in that short period. They were the better team during about 20 minutes, when the Ulster forwards showed how powerful they can be (Franco vd Merwe scored off a driving maul) and Tommy Bowe's first of his two tries came after strong scrummaging of the pack. At the end of the game, Clermont took control again and were deservedly awarded a penalty try when Ulster first-five Jackson knocked down a pass to the Clermont wing that would certainly have resulted in a try (as it happened close to the Ulster try line). Charles Piutau had a quiet night and didn't have much impact.

In pool 5 of the Champions Cup, Clermont now sits firmly at the top of the pool with 8 points more than Bordeaux and Ulster. [Saracens top Pool 3, also 8 points ahead of the next (Toulon), and Leinster have a 5 point lead over Montpellier in Pool 4. Pools 1 and 2 are much closer.]

Stand-out player was again Nick Abendanon, who scored a beauty of a try after an awesome cross-kick from Lopez. That was Abendanon's 2nd try of the game.

Does anyone know whether Gatland is allowed - and inclined - to select players for the B&I Lions who are playing in France? It would be madness not to select Abendanon if he can!

Saturday's Connacht v Wasps game was a pretty good match, with Connacht having the better of the earlier exchanges and then Wasps clawing their way back into the game and eventually controlling things for most of the second half. Wasps were ahead by 5 pints with the clocking ticking down and were playing keeps ball deep in their own half after a good turnover. They then conceded a penalty on the stroke of fun time, which Connacht booted into the corner, rumbled over for the try. The Connacht 10, who had a poor game from the kicking tee converted from the touchline to take the game away from Wasps after 82 odd minutes.

EPRC have since stated that the replacement referee was in error when he allowed Connacht to take the line out after time was up, so the try was awarded in error; however the result will stand. Wasps appear to have taken this on the chin without complaint but we might see a different view if they subsequently fail to qualify.

Marmion was all class again.

@Stargazer said in NH club rugby:

Does anyone know whether Gatland is allowed - and inclined - to select players for the B&I Lions who are playing in France? It would be madness not to select Abendanon if he can!

I saw one report that stated he may be considering Cipriani despite him not being in a national squad so that aspect is obviously not part of the criteria. It could be though that you need to be eligible for one of the BI & I teams which would exclude some overseas players depending on their 'home union'

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

Saturday's Connacht v Wasps game was a pretty good match, with Connacht having the better of the earlier exchanges and then Wasps clawing their way back into the game and eventually controlling things for most of the second half. Wasps were ahead by 5 pints with the clocking ticking down and were playing keeps ball deep in their own half after a good turnover. They then conceded a penalty on the stroke of fun time, which Connacht booted into the corner, rumbled over for the try. The Connacht 10, who had a poor game from the kicking tee converted from the touchline to take the game away from Wasps after 82 odd minutes.

EPRC have since stated that the replacement referee was in error when he allowed Connacht to take the line out after time was up, so the try was awarded in error; however the result will stand. Wasps appear to have taken this on the chin without complaint but we might see a different view if they subsequently fail to qualify.

Marmion was all class again.

Did Connaught ask the ref if they could go for the lineout? If he said yes then the error is solely his and it would be quite unfair to not let it stand.
As a replacement ref he possibly wasn't in tune with the time keeping.
Isn't this one of the law changes coming in?

Oh @Catogrande I din't see the game but saw that Bundee Aki was player of the match and had a good return to form. What was your assessment?

@Crucial said in NH club rugby:

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

Saturday's Connacht v Wasps game was a pretty good match, with Connacht having the better of the earlier exchanges and then Wasps clawing their way back into the game and eventually controlling things for most of the second half. Wasps were ahead by 5 pints with the clocking ticking down and were playing keeps ball deep in their own half after a good turnover. They then conceded a penalty on the stroke of fun time, which Connacht booted into the corner, rumbled over for the try. The Connacht 10, who had a poor game from the kicking tee converted from the touchline to take the game away from Wasps after 82 odd minutes.

EPRC have since stated that the replacement referee was in error when he allowed Connacht to take the line out after time was up, so the try was awarded in error; however the result will stand. Wasps appear to have taken this on the chin without complaint but we might see a different view if they subsequently fail to qualify.

Marmion was all class again.

Did Connaught ask the ref if they could go for the lineout? If he said yes then the error is solely his and it would be quite unfair to not let it stand.
As a replacement ref he possibly wasn't in tune with the time keeping.
Isn't this one of the law changes coming in?

They specially asked the question so yes it would be harsh not to let the result stand and TBH even if not you cannot have match results overturned due to a ref's error otherwise where would it all end?

The replacement ref was OK with the timekeeping as I understand it, just a mistake around the laws.

@Crucial Aki was pretty good, very strong in the tackle and made some hard yards in attack. More impressive though was his reading of the game - he just seemed to be in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, just when it was most needed. However I would have picked Launchbury (again) as MoTM. His workrate was immense, he did all the second row duties at a very high level and then tackled and forced turnovers like a back row on top. He should have got MoTM last week and this week. He's in cracking form at the moment.

Muldoon told the ref that they should be able to take the lineout if they kicked for the corner and the ref agreed. TBF I wouldn't say no to him either...

@Margin_Walker said in NH club rugby:

Muldoon told the ref that they should be able to take the lineout if they kicked for the corner and the ref agreed. TBF I wouldn't say no to him either...

I think there is a bit of confusion around this situation at the moment due to the WR mix of sometimes announcing changes/ interpretations that take effect straight away and sometimes with a date.
eg I know this change is coming in but I can't remember if it is already in place or not.

@Crucial said in NH club rugby:

@Margin_Walker said in NH club rugby:

Muldoon told the ref that they should be able to take the lineout if they kicked for the corner and the ref agreed. TBF I wouldn't say no to him either...

I think there is a bit of confusion around this situation at the moment due to the WR mix of sometimes announcing changes/ interpretations that take effect straight away and sometimes with a date.
eg I know this change is coming in but I can't remember if it is already in place or not.

According to EPRC the line out should not have taken place, citing Law 5.7(e). This states:-

If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.

Like most laws there is a degree of interpretation. In regard to the line out issue as I see it (interpret it). The penalty is awarded and can be taken despite time being up. Instead of a penalty you can opt for a scrum and then play would cease the next time the ball goes dead. You may also opt for a kick to touch but the important thing here is that the award is the kick, not the subsequent line out. Therefore after the kick has been taken play ends when the ball next goes dead, which in this instant is as soon as it goes into touch.

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

@Crucial said in NH club rugby:

@Margin_Walker said in NH club rugby:

Muldoon told the ref that they should be able to take the lineout if they kicked for the corner and the ref agreed. TBF I wouldn't say no to him either...

I think there is a bit of confusion around this situation at the moment due to the WR mix of sometimes announcing changes/ interpretations that take effect straight away and sometimes with a date.
eg I know this change is coming in but I can't remember if it is already in place or not.

According to EPRC the line out should not have taken place, citing Law 5.7(e). This states:-

If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.

Like most laws there is a degree of interpretation. In regard to the line out issue as I see it (interpret it). The penalty is awarded and can be taken despite time being up. Instead of a penalty you can opt for a scrum and then play would cease the next time the ball goes dead. You may also opt for a kick to touch but the important thing here is that the award is the kick, not the subsequent line out. Therefore after the kick has been taken play ends when the ball next goes dead, which in this instant is as soon as it goes into touch.

Cheers. I am aware of the law as it has been applied for years, just saying that there is a change proposed for this Law and can't remember how/when it is being brought in. Will google and come back.

I think it was in play for the Super Rugby season this year but I also found this..

"WORLD RUGBY HAVE announced a package of law trials that will be run across a number of international and domestic competitions in 2016.
Jonathan Sexton Some of these trials could be moved into Northern Hemisphere by August 2017.

The Pacific Challenge, U20 Trophy, Tbilisi Cup, Nations Cup, FFR Academy league, Australian NRC, Welsh Premiership and Colleges championship, and the RFU Army Premiership will be the testing grounds for some interesting new trial laws.
The trial laws that are successful will then move onto a far more extensive global trial in 2017, starting in January of that year in the Southern Hemisphere and August in the Northern Hemisphere.
Different laws will be trialled in different competitions, but what’s involved?

.....

End game

World Rugby is keen to strictly punish infringements in the dying moments of games, and will trial a new law in that regard.
If time has expired and the referee awards a mark, free-kick or penalty, play continues. Perhaps more importantly, if time has expired and a team kicks a penalty into touch, the referee allows the throw-in to be taken and play goes on until the ball next becomes dead.
Previously, any team kicking a penalty into touch with time expired was ending the game, so attacking teams chasing victory had to tap the penalty and run. The prospect of defending a five-metre lineout will make defensive sides think twice about infringing.

@Crucial I think that is a sensible change but odd to have it not running all at the same time. I suppose there is a valid reason...

@Crucial said in NH club rugby:

I think it was in play for the Super Rugby season this year but I also found this..

"WORLD RUGBY HAVE announced a package of law trials that will be run across a number of international and domestic competitions in 2016.
Jonathan Sexton Some of these trials could be moved into Northern Hemisphere by August 2017.

The Pacific Challenge, U20 Trophy, Tbilisi Cup, Nations Cup, FFR Academy league, Australian NRC, Welsh Premiership and Colleges championship, and the RFU Army Premiership will be the testing grounds for some interesting new trial laws.
The trial laws that are successful will then move onto a far more extensive global trial in 2017, starting in January of that year in the Southern Hemisphere and August in the Northern Hemisphere.
Different laws will be trialled in different competitions, but what’s involved?

.....

End game

World Rugby is keen to strictly punish infringements in the dying moments of games, and will trial a new law in that regard.
If time has expired and the referee awards a mark, free-kick or penalty, play continues. Perhaps more importantly, if time has expired and a team kicks a penalty into touch, the referee allows the throw-in to be taken and play goes on until the ball next becomes dead.
Previously, any team kicking a penalty into touch with time expired was ending the game, so attacking teams chasing victory had to tap the penalty and run. The prospect of defending a five-metre lineout will make defensive sides think twice about infringing.

This is correct. Both in 2016 Super Rugby and in this year's Mitre 10 Cup they trialled a law, which allows a team to kick for and take a lineout if they are awarded a penalty after time is expired.

Edited to add this link: http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/refs-and-law-variations-revealed/

"In addition to this, permitting teams to opt for a lineout after time has expired serves to disincentive opponents from infringing and aims to reward sides that are particularly strong set-piece exponents which, when coupled with the previously mentioned changes, encourages more attacking and competitive rugby.

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:

Great Rare home win for the Scarlets against Toulon
There you go mate. Got your typo sorted.

Very true, but that could be said for the majority of teams who've played Toulon in European competition

@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:

@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:

Great Rare home win for the Scarlets against Toulon
There you go mate. Got your typo sorted.

Very true, but that could be said for the majority of teams who've played Toulon in European competition

Whilst this is patently true, mentioning it would not help me in having a dig.

Connaught currently having major problems (especially in the backs) with nearly two dozen of their available players out through injury or enforced rest.
Lam tried to bring his son into the squad from the academy side but the IRFU refused permission on the basis he was a foreigner.
I wonder if the decision was tainted by Lam's decision to leave?

@Crucial maybe they don't see a pub side as worthy of a pro academy player?

@Crucial said in NH club rugby:

Connaught currently having major problems (especially in the backs) with nearly two dozen of their available players out through injury or enforced rest.
Lam tried to bring his son into the squad from the academy side but the IRFU refused permission on the basis he was a foreigner.
I wonder if the decision was tainted by Lam's decision to leave?

Connacht, not Connaught.
The story on this seems to change day to day. The provinces are meant to be developing Irish qualified players from now on. Nucifora has been laying down the law on this to Connacht, Ulster and Leinster. But he's made an exception for Munster to allow them extend Taute's short term injury cover contract for Sailii until end of the season even though Sailii is now back playing. Media is now focusing on this contradiction and stirring things up with other three provinces.