All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

I agree, I’d love to see how it went with the RWC weighting removed (only added in so there is almost no way a RWC winner not be ranked 1 after the final) as that would be a better indication of actual relative performance.

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting

It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus

@stodders good questions

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

There hasn't been a presser yet.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

Obviously that was the first question asked by our tenacious rugby press…

…oh no.

But the awesome media machine of NZR that just loves to keep us informed with the most up to the minute info has released that…

…naaaah

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting

It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus

yeah, so the further you go in the comp the more "extra" point you get

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.

i wasn't too worried about the SA staying top thing, thats just how far they were ahead, largely due to the RWC extra points but them is the rules, whilst i believe we were easily the top team from 2011 through 2015....the gap we had over the other teams was huge due to the back to back RWC's so we've benefited from it too, im also pretty forgiving with anything COVID fucked up, its righting itself pretty quickly

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.

Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.

which i guess makes sense with the results we've seen over the last year, top 6 are all pretty close compared to the past

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘I haven’t become a bad coach overnight’ ...

fixed it for you:)

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Does anyone think Foster has lost the dressing room?
Or is he in the process of losing it...

I’d have to go and get changed with the All Blacks to answer that unequivocally

The question was has Foster lost the dressing room, not: have you scared the dressing room?

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.

BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch, we are kicking it to them to run back at us, therefore are we meant to be pressuring them with our kick chase more, is our chase defence not doing its job?

Yep, 10 is absolutely part of the problem, but it isnt the only one...BB is a fantastic runner, he can kick, but something not quite right there presently, we also have JB who can slot in at first receiver, why are we not utilising him more, like we used to with Dagg?

Playing smarter rugby would help, rather than this heads up, all out score from anywhere, play smart, those chances will come, instead we constantly put ourselves under pressure at the wrong end of the park (well both ends TBF)

I thought Jordie's kicking hasn't been that great this series (apart from conversions).
I was really impressed with Jordan's kicking in the final against the Blues (for what it is worth as a non Cantab).

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

There hasn't been a presser yet.

It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.

I actually think there culd be a lot in the fans don't mix a lot, and tend to do a lot of discussing on the net, where everyone sounds maybe more harsh than they probably mean (well I put my hand up for that as I still find talking over a beer easier) and then everyone digs in. I go into a few forums, and find the interaction in general is a lot less friendly etc than when we talk in person.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.

I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.

I am surprised Ofa is there at all.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.

I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.

I am surprised Ofa is there at all.

Ta'avao is out, so based on previous Lomax would be the next option.

That team. Lots of fullback options, not many wings. Looks like they expect high attrition in the forwards.
I'm an Akira fan (sometimes) but I'd like to see Grace at some stage in the ABs this year.

Wonder how much discussion goes on with senior players etc(if any) while deciding on team. Just was hearing Sam W saying when Foster and co had covid a couple of weeks back that generally trainings were more or less run by players in 2nd part of test weeks, and had that was usually way it always been done.
Remember Tana Umaga saying they had even suggested Graham Henry not really even talking in dressing sheds before games.
I wonder this when trying to work out why ST isn't in team and wondering if it becuase of scrum or something.

@Dan54. Irish pretty much at full strength bar Ringrose. But Aki might me a bigger handful for Havili and RTS. Henshaw good enough for either Jersey.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Wonder how much discussion goes on with senior players etc(if any) while deciding on team. Just was hearing Sam W saying when Foster and co had covid a couple of weeks back that generally trainings were more or less run by players in 2nd part of test weeks, and had that was usually way it always been done.
Remember Tana Umaga saying they had even suggested Graham Henry not really even talking in dressing sheds before games.
I wonder this when trying to work out why ST isn't in team and wondering if it becuase of scrum or something.

??
Do you think he is weak in the scrum? Chiefs Front Row usually went from dominant to holding it's own when he departed in games.

@ARHS said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54. Irish pretty much at full strength bar Ringrose. But Aki might me a bigger handful for Havili and RTS. Henshaw good enough for either Jersey.

Bundee will be off his game. I had a quick chat to him in the stands the other night and reminded him (gently) of his CM and Chiefs roots.

@ARHS said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54. Irish pretty much at full strength bar Ringrose. But Aki might me a bigger handful for Havili and RTS. Henshaw good enough for either Jersey.

Yep ARHS and just seen Aki is at 13, not Henshaw. I just don't recall him playing there a lot, but agree he may just be a real handful.

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Wonder how much discussion goes on with senior players etc(if any) while deciding on team. Just was hearing Sam W saying when Foster and co had covid a couple of weeks back that generally trainings were more or less run by players in 2nd part of test weeks, and had that was usually way it always been done.
Remember Tana Umaga saying they had even suggested Graham Henry not really even talking in dressing sheds before games.
I wonder this when trying to work out why ST isn't in team and wondering if it becuase of scrum or something.

??
Do you think he is weak in the scrum? Chiefs Front Row usually went from dominant to holding it's own when he departed in games.

Yep I was just wondering, I trying to understand why he not in team. I can't say I noticed it either.

@Crucial Sami seems like one of those rare hookers who’s only ever truly upright when he’s throwing in. His body position when carrying, hitting rucks or scrumming is always impressively low. And obviously huge explosive power. Taylor has to have a huge game this weekend to justify his place. He was the 4the best hooker on the field in the second test, by some margin.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

That team. Lots of fullback options, not many wings. Looks like they expect high attrition in the forwards.
I'm an Akira fan (sometimes) but I'd like to see Grace at some stage in the ABs this year.

Yep I wondering if Grace has put forward a case with his performance for MABs, where he seemed to carry quite strongly.

I’m hoping someone has got in the ear of the officials about that ridiculous penalty for going too far beyond the breakdown at the clean out. I don’t understand that penalty at all, especially when Ireland weren’t penalised for the same thing, or coming in from the side to clean out either. Ireland were clearing their ball at speed, and slowing ours down very effectively. We hardly fired a shot there and I’m sure that was at least partly because we toned down the aggression after that penalty.

@Dan54 Big Grace fan (as you can see from previous posts) and I think Sotutu and Grace should be in the ABs as specialist No.8s competing for the position against each other. But you'd think Sotutu would get a go first and foremost if they were taking this line of thought? His SR form was great (he had a big improvement in physicality), his No.8 skills off the back of the scrum are exceptional... and yet he hasn't been sighted.

@Old-Samurai-Jack is it just him, Perofeta and Goodhue that havent been used?

Seriously guys, who is our centre cover? Surely not Jordie…

Reece?

@JC probably Jordie, then Havili (possibly played there more recently than Jordie?) or maybe Aaron Smith played there at school once.

Why has their been no press conference?

@mariner4life have you not seen social media this week, everyone is mean.

@taniwharugby Vaa'i?

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

you should get down to club rugby and stand on sidelines in rain etc, gives you appreciation of what rugby is in real world.

lol fuck off

no nerve touched, i just wonder why people like you even come here?

so I'm not the oldest Ferner!

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 Big Grace fan (as you can see from previous posts) and I think Sotutu and Grace should be in the ABs as specialist No.8s competing for the position against each other. But you'd think Sotutu would get a go first and foremost if they were taking this line of thought? His SR form was great (he had a big improvement in physicality), his No.8 skills off the back of the scrum are exceptional... and yet he hasn't been sighted.

Yep and Grace didn't really come on until end of season, so Sotutu got the jump. Think perhaps also PGS also had a big impact earlier in Super than Grace. Regardless I really think at this stage Ardie is just about our best player and he is (whether some like it or not) 8 too. I was on Grace bandwagon big time a couple of years back, and he seemed to of not really come on until second late in super rugby, and think somehow that Super final may just be his breakout performance that will set him up, though I suspect could be after WC that he really cements spot.

@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Seriously guys, who is our centre cover? Surely not Jordie…

Reece?

He’s actually not that bad at it in a poor man’s Snakey sort of mould.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Seriously guys, who is our centre cover? Surely not Jordie…

Reece?

He’s actually not that bad at it in a poor man’s Snakey sort of mould.

Allgood we can just pop Ardie in there if needed. Imagine a midfield of RTS and ASav, that would be out the gate.

In the short term, Farrell will know that his side will face a ferocious response from the All Blacks in Wellington on Saturday. Not only is the series on the line, but there is also tremendous pressure on his counterpart Ian Foster, and many of the players who will be desperate to play in the World Cup next year.

Foster has come in for a lot of criticism following the defeat on Saturday, the sixth of 23 Tests in charge. The All Blacks have also dropped to fourth in the world rankings, and when the public opinion turns, it usually happens very quickly; as it did to previous head coaches John Hart and John Mitchell following respective semi-final defeats in the 1999 and 2003 World Cups.

I think there has been an impact on New Zealand rugby now that the South African teams are playing their rugby in Europe. New Zealand sides have definitely missed the combative nature of rugby against the South Africans.

But New Zealand rugby traditionally has been brilliant at adapting really quickly and the All Blacks are renowned for their reaction in the face of adversity. Ireland know what is coming.

A series win would ensure Farrell's men go into the World Cup next year as serious contenders. But it will be even more critical for the All Blacks. Another defeat and the clamour for change may be hard to ignore.