All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@kev said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

I really like the RTS call. It’s a big game and he won’t be overawed. He has a bit of class to him but is a hard worker on both sides of the ball.

ABs by 8 and Coles to score the game sealing try.

If you watched the Warriors games you will see that Roger often made mistakes - and got pushed off in tackles. He has been the same with the Blues. So great attacking but has some issues. In such a big game it’s a big call.

I can (sadly) report that I watched every single one of RTS’s Warriors games. Yes I am tragic.

I think he reads the play well and is actually a better tackler when he goes low which is better for rugby as a 2nd 5 than a league fullback.

I’m interested in what the strategy is for his injection into the match. Barring injuries, when do they want him to come on.

Sometimes the big games need the big call

Interesting thing RTS was saying in an interview last week when discussing how hard he was finding game, he said in league he made probably 2 tackles a agme and finding extra work in union bloody tiring, as I never watch league, I was surprised.

League fullbacks don’t make a lot of tackles because they are rarely in the line. The tackles they make are often scrambling.

Take last nights Origin, the two fullbacks had phenomenal games but the Qld fullback, Ponga who got player of the match only made 2 tackles and Tedesco is more of a physical style fullback made 5 tackles. That is in a game that had 600+ tackles made and about 100 missed tackles.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Duluth I'm with you in that I think our players are too good for Ireland at home, despite our obvious issues under Foster. The fact Ireland only managed to score 23 points and beat us by 11 despite our red card and two yellows speaks volumes really, they just don't have enough points in them if we keep 15 players on the field.

Almost all their points were scored when they had the same number of men as us. (They had a card too.)

But we won't be beaten because they score a lot. We will be beaten by not scoring many ourselves. That's how Ireland have won all the other times.

I'm expecting them to be far less adventurous. They literally gave us the ball a lot in the first test, costing them pretty much the margin of victory. They have had a good look at our attack, and with QT and ST out it is even less penetrative than before, and won't be scared of holding on.

It all comes down to whether the ABs can hold their passes under pressure, and how much ball they kick away. If the passes stick and they give up the kick-and-hope game, the men in black will win comfortably. If they get the dropsies, and if they kick away most of the possession once they haven't made an immediate break-through, then they will lose.

Edit: I don't make hard predictions with Foster's teams. I learned many, many years ago that it is the way to heartache. They play well or dreadfully, apparently at random.

@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.

@Frank said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Taukei’aho didn't have the impact in the Ireland tests that he had last year. I can also understand them not starting Coles, who hasn't played much at all, this year. So in that light, starting Taylor makes a lot of sense. I don't think he's been as bad as people are posting here.

Yep almost seems some players are more effective against super defences etc huh Star?

You clearly didn't pay any attention to Taylor or Sami' in the last two games (or in all the games last year for that matter). I can therefore only conclude you aren't you aren't a true rugby man.

Mate, I only trying to work out why he not there, and I thinking only reason is there maybe concern with some part of his game?

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.

Amen, would make for a little more relaxed viewing without giving a team as good as them a 7 point start.

@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

NZ TAB odds:

NZ $1.25
IRE $4.00
Draw $21.00

9 point spread.

View embedded content

Well there seems to be a few people on TSF picking the AB's to lose

Time for them to make same easy money. Bet big on Ireland. Post receipts.

I'm more interested in seeing receipts from those people who think $1.25 is worth the risk.

@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?

@taniwharugby Yes. The ABs need to show intent and start strongly for once in this series.

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?

The two starts were carbon copies almost

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?

The two starts were carbon copies almost

Only 2nd test was even quicker, I almost just shrugged and went oh yeah? here we go again, but we didn't go again lol

Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘we haven’t become a bad team overnight’ Yeah it’s taken the couple of years with you in charge!

@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny

@Bovidae tbf I guess we have never been quick out of the blocks, which was fine when we had the quality we had years ago, when no one could really keep up with us in the final quarter.

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny

Yeah it would be more correct after two awful performances last year, after the win in the first Irish test to say ‘We haven’t become a great team overnight!’ Yup that’s why we are ranked 4th

@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
2. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 9 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 59 caps
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 32 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 86 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 42 caps
8. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary's College) 19 caps
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 19 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary's College) 107 caps CAPTAIN
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 14 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 39 caps
13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 59 caps
14. Mack Hansen (Connacht) 5 caps
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 22 caps

Reserves:

16. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 27 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 117 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 24 caps
19. Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena) 7 caps
20. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 29 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 98 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 34 caps
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 97 caps

That's a good looking bloody line up too. Is Henshaw as good at 13 as 12?

@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now

People rubbish the WR rankings, and I think that RWC shouldn’t be weighted as it is, but the decline under Foster is easy to see on that line

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

I agree, I’d love to see how it went with the RWC weighting removed (only added in so there is almost no way a RWC winner not be ranked 1 after the final) as that would be a better indication of actual relative performance.

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting

It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus

@stodders good questions

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

There hasn't been a presser yet.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

Obviously that was the first question asked by our tenacious rugby press…

…oh no.

But the awesome media machine of NZR that just loves to keep us informed with the most up to the minute info has released that…

…naaaah

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting

It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus

yeah, so the further you go in the comp the more "extra" point you get

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.

i wasn't too worried about the SA staying top thing, thats just how far they were ahead, largely due to the RWC extra points but them is the rules, whilst i believe we were easily the top team from 2011 through 2015....the gap we had over the other teams was huge due to the back to back RWC's so we've benefited from it too, im also pretty forgiving with anything COVID fucked up, its righting itself pretty quickly

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.

Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them

It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.

which i guess makes sense with the results we've seen over the last year, top 6 are all pretty close compared to the past

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘I haven’t become a bad coach overnight’ ...

fixed it for you:)

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Does anyone think Foster has lost the dressing room?
Or is he in the process of losing it...

I’d have to go and get changed with the All Blacks to answer that unequivocally

The question was has Foster lost the dressing room, not: have you scared the dressing room?

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.

BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch, we are kicking it to them to run back at us, therefore are we meant to be pressuring them with our kick chase more, is our chase defence not doing its job?

Yep, 10 is absolutely part of the problem, but it isnt the only one...BB is a fantastic runner, he can kick, but something not quite right there presently, we also have JB who can slot in at first receiver, why are we not utilising him more, like we used to with Dagg?

Playing smarter rugby would help, rather than this heads up, all out score from anywhere, play smart, those chances will come, instead we constantly put ourselves under pressure at the wrong end of the park (well both ends TBF)

I thought Jordie's kicking hasn't been that great this series (apart from conversions).
I was really impressed with Jordan's kicking in the final against the Blues (for what it is worth as a non Cantab).

@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?

There hasn't been a presser yet.

It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.

I actually think there culd be a lot in the fans don't mix a lot, and tend to do a lot of discussing on the net, where everyone sounds maybe more harsh than they probably mean (well I put my hand up for that as I still find talking over a beer easier) and then everyone digs in. I go into a few forums, and find the interaction in general is a lot less friendly etc than when we talk in person.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.

I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.

I am surprised Ofa is there at all.

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.

I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.

I am surprised Ofa is there at all.

Ta'avao is out, so based on previous Lomax would be the next option.

That team. Lots of fullback options, not many wings. Looks like they expect high attrition in the forwards.
I'm an Akira fan (sometimes) but I'd like to see Grace at some stage in the ABs this year.

Wonder how much discussion goes on with senior players etc(if any) while deciding on team. Just was hearing Sam W saying when Foster and co had covid a couple of weeks back that generally trainings were more or less run by players in 2nd part of test weeks, and had that was usually way it always been done.
Remember Tana Umaga saying they had even suggested Graham Henry not really even talking in dressing sheds before games.
I wonder this when trying to work out why ST isn't in team and wondering if it becuase of scrum or something.

@Dan54. Irish pretty much at full strength bar Ringrose. But Aki might me a bigger handful for Havili and RTS. Henshaw good enough for either Jersey.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:

Wonder how much discussion goes on with senior players etc(if any) while deciding on team. Just was hearing Sam W saying when Foster and co had covid a couple of weeks back that generally trainings were more or less run by players in 2nd part of test weeks, and had that was usually way it always been done.
Remember Tana Umaga saying they had even suggested Graham Henry not really even talking in dressing sheds before games.
I wonder this when trying to work out why ST isn't in team and wondering if it becuase of scrum or something.

??
Do you think he is weak in the scrum? Chiefs Front Row usually went from dominant to holding it's own when he departed in games.