All Blacks XV 2022

@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:

@stargazer said there was an agreement about MP players

This is from earlier in the thread. If someone has time, maybe search for the original reporting about the agreement?

@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:

Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).

So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.

By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.

I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?

I can't find any reference of an agreement for NZ not to select dual eligible players that are in MP. Even if there was this AB XV is not a side that locks eligibility so his options are still open.
MP themselves say that they expect that players will remain eligible for pasifika nations while signed to MP but, as I posted earlier, they are also allowed 3 non eligible (eg Josh Ioane) players and up to 20% that remain dual eligible. Amua has no restrictions on him if he is part of that 20%

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks XV:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

As far as I can tell nobody is saying MP 'captures' a player. The way I have read things on here is people are suggesting there may be an agreement (a gentlemen's agreement?) that while players are playing for MP they won't be selected for the ABs.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks XV:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Dan54 has that (edit: that the ABs can select him from MP) been confirmed? I thought it was speculation from both sides of the arguement.

Well when MP was formed it was publicly confirmed by Bee Gee that after discussions with NZR even ABs could play for MP. And everything I have ever read on eligibilty rules, what is you can only be captured for a country, by playing for that country. I not sure who got the idea that playing for MP captured you as Joe Royal who I know is not eligible to play for any island team played for them.

As far as I can tell nobody is saying MP 'captures' a player. The way I have read things on here is people are suggesting there may be an agreement (a gentlemen's agreement?) that while players are playing for MP they won't be selected for the ABs.

Haven't heard that mate, just heard Bee Gee say players could go anywhere, but they preferred to have only 3 in squad who weren't making themselves available for Islands. But prepared to say I never looked into it deeply,

This is the first case showing that MP will act as a 6th franchise if the player is considered good enough.

Whether Aumua is good enough or not is another question.

He has size, I’ll admit, and is a dangerous player.

@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:

He has size, I’ll admit

You and your generous admissions.

@gt12 Aumua would be better at the Crusaders if he wants to be an All Black. Wonder if he could change franchise if he has a really good tour. He would also be a good backup at the Crusaders especially with Jack Goodhue coming back from injury.

@SBW1 I see you're suggesting a player go sit on the bench for the crusaders in a search for higher honours. Crafty.

@Bones Goodhue is taking a little longer with his recovery.

@Bones just commonsense. That way we have less minutes to view and criticise them and their reputation from training stats and Instagram pics becomes far more meaningful for AB selection.

@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:

@Bones just commonsense. That way we have less minutes to view and criticise them and their reputation from training stats and Instagram pics becomes far more meaningful for AB selection.

And of course any opposition can not analyse any weakness to exploit, it is Fozzie genius.

@SBW1 Goodhue is coming back? For how long?

@broughie TBF he did start in NPC but needed additional surgery, that I believe was only 'minor' and could have kept playing, but it was needed when it happend so he was fit for super...not sure he will make it back in black, but think he still has alot to offer otherwise.

@taniwharugby Fair enough but he needs to make his case on the field. A season of super rugby should be sufficient.

@broughie Fozzie has been a little vague on that, sounds like at the least, at the beginning of the next Super Rugby season.

I am still puzzled by CLW's selection. These 8s had a better NPC IMO : Lakai, Flanders, Broughton, Iose and Suafoa, just to name a few. Lakai, in particular, has far more chances to become an All Black than CLW, IMO.

@cgrant said in All Blacks XV:

I am still puzzled by CLW's selection. These 8s had a better NPC IMO : Lakai, Flanders, Broughton, Iose and Suafoa, just to name a few. Lakai, in particular, has far more chances to become an All Black than CLW, IMO.

Lakai is just 19 and has never played Super. He looks every inch a future AB but no need to rush things.

@cgrant

It's a little bizarre. I've never heard anyone not south of Oamaru mention him before as a prospect. And he's not that young at 24. Has he been playing the house down for Otago?

@KiwiMurph
So you think CLW's selection is a better choice ? When you are good enough, you are old enough. But if you don't like seing a 19 y.o. selected, then there are the other names I wrote in my previous mail. And I could have add Matich who had a very good NPC. Of course, he is not AB material but he looked better than CLW IMO.

@cgrant said in All Blacks XV:

@KiwiMurph
So you think CLW's selection is a better choice ? When you are good enough, you are old enough. But if you don't like seing a 19 y.o. selected, then there are the other names I wrote in my previous mail. And I could have add Matich who had a very good NPC. Of course, he is not AB material but he looked better than CLW IMO.

CLW was targeted by the Crusaders so clearly J Ryan sees something in him. I watched CLW when Otago played Canterbury a few weeks ago and he was outstanding.

I just don't see it as that crazy of a selection when you factor in this is about the next group of players for next year - CLW seems to be one of a number of players at the same sort of level - Flanders form this season has clearly been down on previous seasons (carrying an injury?), Iose suffers from playing in a poor Manawatu team and therefore trying to do everything himself, Matich is 31 and won't even have a Super Rugby contract etc.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

Flanders form this season has clearly been down on previous seasons (carrying an injury?)

His form at the tail end of the NPC was actually really good. IIRC he has been carrying an injury most of the year.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

Flanders form this season has clearly been down on previous seasons (carrying an injury?)

His form at the tail end of the NPC was actually really good. IIRC he has been carrying an injury most of the year.

I am a fan of Flanders but I reckon he needs a season of showing he can get through intense games at Super level without cramping/breaking down before being selected at the next level.

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

Not sure what the goals of the team are. If I was selecting a team it would be based on potential to reach a higher level that's why I don't understand the selection of Gatland. I can appreciate he did a great job for North Harbor but he would be swallowed up at international level.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

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How on earth did Laghlan McWhannell & Ollie Norris not make the squad then?

@broughie said in All Blacks XV:

Not sure what the goals of the team are. If I was selecting a team it would be based on potential to reach a higher level that's why I don't understand the selection of Gatland. I can appreciate he did a great job for North Harbor but he would be swallowed up at international level.

I believe the selection is for next year. As in - who is the next cab of the rank next year if people start falling over (ala first fives in the 2011 RWC). I suppose one thing in Gatland's favour is he is very experienced but on form/potential I would think Fergus Burke is perhaps a better option.

@KiwiMurph yeah I don’t mind the Gatland selection and he could do a job ala Donald should Mo’unga, Beaudie, Perofeta, DMac (and probably Jordie) all get a visit from Suzie

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

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Eek, I made the mistake of reading the comments to that article. Self uppercut.

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

View embedded content

Eek, I made the mistake of reading the comments to that article. Self uppercut.

Never go full retard Stuff comments

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

View embedded content

Eek, I made the mistake of reading the comments to that article. Self uppercut.

Never go full retard Stuff comments

TBF I was assigning some comments to Fern posters in my head.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

@broughie said in All Blacks XV:

Not sure what the goals of the team are. If I was selecting a team it would be based on potential to reach a higher level that's why I don't understand the selection of Gatland. I can appreciate he did a great job for North Harbor but he would be swallowed up at international level.

I believe the selection is for next year. As in - who is the next cab of the rank next year if people start falling over (ala first fives in the 2011 RWC). I suppose one thing in Gatland's favour is he is very experienced but on form/potential I would think Fergus Burke is perhaps a better option.

Burke getting selected along with all the other Cantabs? That would have been a poplar selection.

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Ryan says they picked on NPC form. That doesn't explain the selection of some bench players.

View embedded content

Eek, I made the mistake of reading the comments to that article. Self uppercut.

Never go full retard Stuff comments

comments section on you tube videos can be pretty interesting too

@KiwiMurph Might be true but could you imagine that scenario? Could Beaver come out of retirement?

@broughie said in All Blacks XV:

@KiwiMurph Might be true but could you imagine that scenario? Could Beaver come out of retirement?

It's hard to imagine a scenario of 4 or 5 guys that would be ahead of Gatland all going down, but never say never aye.

The thing with Donald and 2011 is that he knew Henry's system so it wasn't completely foreign to him when lightning struck for the third time! I'm not as down on Gatland and actually prefer that the likes of Burke aren't being rushed.

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:

@Nepia said in All Blacks XV:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV:

Flanders form this season has clearly been down on previous seasons (carrying an injury?)

His form at the tail end of the NPC was actually really good. IIRC he has been carrying an injury most of the year.

I am a fan of Flanders but I reckon he needs a season of showing he can get through intense games at Super level without cramping/breaking down before being selected at the next level.

Agreed. He looks to be the big, physical - defence & offence that is ideal for test rugby. However he seems to be cursed by the injury bug.

Zach Mercer
Camille Chat
George Bridge
Josua Tuisova

4 players named so far for the BaaBaas.

Bridge was in the promo so always looked like being selected.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:

Bridge was in the promo so always looked like being selected.

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Yeah. Although Ollivon certainly won't be available. France play SA the day before.

Every test team is in action that weekend so unless they get dispensation (like Tuisova must have) then it will mostly be club players. I'm sure it should still be a strong lineup.

I expect some more NZ players to be involved, if they get a NZR release. How about some of those considered unlucky not be to playing in black in this game?

For example:

Hodgman
Eklund
Thompson
Ah Kuoi
Sangster/MSR
Suafoa
PGS
Stevenson

Heard bop prop tevita mafilio called into nz xv