@Machpants said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
But the of times when they say abs are going lose, like the quarters, they're right
in terms of that statement, surely they didnt have us as under dogs in 2007, our only 1/4 exit?
Or am I reading what you are saying wrong?
Irish proved last year stats mean jack 
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This was circulating social media 12 years ago...
Who got us this time?
Weepu could come on off the bench as replacement prop.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
I hate to say it but that 3rd test against Ireland at home, series decider, to protect that record should have seen ample motivation no? Foster's ABs have just not displayed the backlash to an AB loss which we'd become used to seeing. Where was the backlash against France to getting thrashed by SA?
It will take more than frothing to beat these guys - up front they are physically our equals, motivated as fuck, and crucially far better disciplined and more cohesive - we actually need to play smart and show some patience i.e. play some territory and not think we have to come up with some piece of low percentage chip kick magic on every single play Beauden. Either that or we need a shitload of luck, as we got vs SA in NZ where every bounce of the ball and contested kick went our way. I would really far rather have the former, but figure we are relying on the latter.
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Your mob were saying the same about England last go round
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
Yeah be nice for them to be motivated to win for a change when they usually don't give a shit eh
You are spot on on this and your previous post.
Motivation isn't an issue - but if they are desperate to win or playing catch-up they can go to pieces. Try too hard and you get the Read Wild Staring Eyes nightmare again.
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This was circulating social media 12 years ago...
Who got us this time?
Wrong pic.
That's Piri Weepu and not Beaver.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Your mob were saying the same about England last go round
That’s why I said if
Foz
"We know them pretty well, and they know us pretty well, and there's no doubt that both teams will try and surprise around the edges, but the game's going to be about discipline defensively. It's going to be about intensity at the breakdown and body height. And winning corners and stuff like that.
“Kearney was also keen to point out that Schmidt laid a lot of the foundations before Farrell took over.
"I think a lot, to be honest with you," he said when asked about how much of the bedrock was still there from the Schmidt era.
"If you remember back initially when he took over we didn’t have [forwards coach] Paul O’Connell at that stage. Paul came in and Paul was probably one of Joe’s biggest fans and, I think as a coach, learned a huge amount from Joe.
"I think he’s put into practice a lot of the habits that Joe instilled into the team and even uses some of the language that Joe used as well so I think that there has been a lot of what Joe did in his period of time that we still use.
"But obviously with Andy as head coach and Mike Catt as attack/backs coach, there has been a fair bit of tweaking as well. We play a very different game to what we played under Joe, much more I suppose ball-in-hand focused and 15-man focused.
"But just to go back to the question, certainly Paul has honestly brought a lot of what Joe brought to the team and no doubt that we benefit from that still."
@MiketheSnow said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Your mob were saying the same about England last go round
At least England had some ability.
Why are Wales good all of a sudden because they got out of jail vs Fiji, and smoked the worst Australian side of the modern era... lets not forget the struggles vs Portugal as well.
Argentina also have been rubbish at this WC and have benefitted majorly from a weak pool... of the two, they are more likely of upsetting the applecart in the semis, but I'd be stunned if one of NZ and Ireland aren't in the final.
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby a bit of confidence can do amazing things.
Can't turn Wales into world-beaters though. I think they are unlikely to pick up their first ever win over the ABs in the Semis, and if Ireland get through, they will have the bit between their teeth.
With Cheika at the helm, Argentina are always a wildcard, but they've been rubbish this year really. I think Wales, Argentina, Fiji and England have all built their respective hype levels via the fact by far and away the four best sides on the world are on a crash course for each other. If one of those four sneaks through the back door it'll be England, but they've hardly been convincing, and will shoot themselves in the foot by shoehorning in Farrell at 12.
TAB pricing also reflects the knowledge that a large proportion of their Kiwi customers bet with their "hearts rather than heads". The ABs are almost always under the odds.
Go offshore if you are looking for better value.
@bayimports said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I wouldn’t pick one Irish player in a combined NZ/Ireland Father Ted’s XV….
TBF you wouldn’t pick anyone outside of Canterbury at any time
I’m open to the odd token.
Well if it all goes belly up this week, we can all get onboard the Santner bandwagon and bring home the CWC
@voodoo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
They can get the fuck out with this shit. Getting their excuses in early, trying to steal our underdog status.
We’ve sacrificed a great deal for the underdog tag, be damned if they’re taking it off us now.
Ireland are the underdogs in the RWC. Never been past the quarters. Failed 117 times. In contrast, NZ perennial winners, always in the knockouts, best in the world, Beauden Barrett, Richie McCoy aka Sam Cane, Best coach in the world, NZ thoroughbreds vs Irish mongrels, etc, etc.
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
4 things to consider:
- Ireland have never got past qtr final stage
- only 2 teams have ever recorded 18 wins in a row in the history of rugby.
- Ireland have never beaten NZ at a World Cup before
- Their former coach is now an AB coach plotting against them.
So if we lose and Ireland overcome those 4 things we retitle the Fozzie’s firsts thread to Fozzie’s Quadrella’s
I’ve been lurking on this site for 20 years and I haven’t seen this level of anxiousness before. Although when one bright spark posted that we were at peak oil it had a few nerves going…
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
4 things to consider:
- Ireland have never got past qtr final stage
- only 2 teams have ever recorded 18 wins in a row in the history of rugby.
- Ireland have never beaten NZ at a World Cup before
- Their former coach is now an AB coach plotting against them.
So if we lose and Ireland overcome those 4 things we retitle the Fozzie’s firsts thread to Fozzie’s Quadrella’s
I’ve been lurking on this site for 20 years and I haven’t seen this level of anxiousness before. Although when one bright spark posted that we were at peak oil it had a few nerves going…
@Derm-McCrum said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
They can get the fuck out with this shit. Getting their excuses in early, trying to steal our underdog status.
We’ve sacrificed a great deal for the underdog tag, be damned if they’re taking it off us now.
Ireland are the underdogs in the RWC. Never been past the quarters. Failed 117 times. In contrast, NZ perennial winners, always in the knockouts, best in the world, Beauden Barrett, Richie McCoy aka Sam Cane, Best coach in the world, NZ thoroughbreds vs Irish mongrels, etc, etc.
:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: That is some real shenanigans, right there!
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@bayimports said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I wouldn’t pick one Irish player in a combined NZ/Ireland Father Ted’s XV….
TBF you wouldn’t pick anyone outside of Canterbury at any time
I’m open to the odd token.
Well if it all goes belly up this week, we can all get onboard the Santner bandwagon and bring home the CWC
All you need is for Ireland do a late late call up of Jaeger this week, no token will be needed.
@Nepia said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@bayimports said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I wouldn’t pick one Irish player in a combined NZ/Ireland Father Ted’s XV….
TBF you wouldn’t pick anyone outside of Canterbury at any time
I’m open to the odd token.
Well if it all goes belly up this week, we can all get onboard the Santner bandwagon and bring home the CWC
All you need is for Ireland do a late late call up of Jaeger this week, no token will be needed.
He's staying put apparently. He's had 3 overtures and turned them down.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Derm-McCrum said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@voodoo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
They can get the fuck out with this shit. Getting their excuses in early, trying to steal our underdog status.
We’ve sacrificed a great deal for the underdog tag, be damned if they’re taking it off us now.
Ireland are the underdogs in the RWC. Never been past the quarters. Failed 117 times. In contrast, NZ perennial winners, always in the knockouts, best in the world, Beauden Barrett, Richie McCoy aka Sam Cane, Best coach in the world, NZ thoroughbreds vs Irish mongrels, etc, etc.
:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: That is some real shenanigans, right there!
Really? I don't know what you're talking about. NZ are revered in this country - the game this weekend is regarded as the pinnacle of every players' career. Each player knows when they face greatness - it's an honour only rarely bestowed. Ireland, I'm sure will do their best, not to disgrace such a game and give it their best shot.
@Derm-McCrum I heard both teams get participation certificates after as well, thats pretty cool.
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Machpants not sure TAB odds setting for the ABs are a true gauge...
So the only game we were underdogs and won was SA last year?
Doesn't surprise me, we’re usually the overdogs
@Machpants said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Machpants so they had us as faves for the test we won in SA last year?
Kinda proves my point about the TAB and thier odds setting?
Oh correct tab always over rate the abs. Like now, no way we should be paying 2$, 4$ would be more accurate. But the of times when they say abs are going lose, like the quarters, they're right
Not overrated. Just set different odds as idiots like us bet with our hearts, and they need to adjust their odds. It's not a function of how the TAB rate the team's chances.
@MiketheSnow said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Your mob were saying the same about England last go round
Which mob? Pretty sure we all saw that as 50/50 at best.
This reads weird; hundreds of posts of All Black fans trying to convince themselves they could win a quarter final.
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This reads weird; hundreds of posts of All Black fans trying to convince themselves they could win a quarter final.
Abs could win, totally. Will we? No
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Honestly I think DMAC should be fullback.
I don’t mind the occasional chip kick. As long as it is used sparingly as part of a varied attach to keep Ireland on the back foot and guessing what we will come up with next.
If we see to many it is because we are running out of ideas asnd he simply cannot help himself from doing them as this is his only way he can make something happen.
OR Ireland see kicking the ball to BB as a good idea.. as 9/10 times he will put us under further pressure..
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Now if they were playing us in NZ...... 
@Mattasaurus yes it will be interesting to see if there has been any foxing by Fozzie (evidence says no) as you really do question some of the tactics so maybe they have been playing that way, inviting Ireland to play to this, only for us to actually have a plan.
Problem is, Ireland are the smartest team going around at the moment, I expect them to be able to adapt to anything we throw at them, although if we get a couple of scores up fairly early, that will test the strength of thier wheels given the historical pressure of the RWC sitting on them.
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Mattasaurus yes it will be interesting to see if there has been any foxing by Fozzie (evidence says no) as you really do question some of the tactics so maybe they have been playing that way, inviting Ireland to play to this, only for us to actually have a plan.
Problem is, Ireland are the smartest team going around at the moment, I expect them to be able to adapt to anything we throw at them, although if we get a couple of scores up fairly early, that will test the strength of thier wheels given the historical pressure of the RWC sitting on them.
I just want us to stop beating ourselves. Force them to outplay us
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Machpants so they had us as faves for the test we won in SA last year?
Kinda proves my point about the TAB and thier odds setting?
TAB must think we have our Aura back
@Mr-Fish said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Seeing a lot of comments that suggest NZ are underrated, aren't as bad as everyone is making out etc... I'd love to see some of the reasoning behind that?
The All Blacks are a slightly better team than when they last played Ireland, thanks primarily to the additions of Tyrel Lomax and Jordie Barrett, but they've still flattered to deceive in the past two years.
Since losing that Ireland series, the All Blacks have played 19 games.
Of those 19 games, the only tough opposition they've faced has been South Africa (four times) and France (once). They won two of those matches against the Boks, one game in Auckland and one game at Ellis Park. They lost the other two, in Mbombela and on neutral turf at Twickenham. They lost to France.
The rest of the games they played were against bang average sides. They almost lost to a poor Japan side, who are a shadow of the team that did so well at the 2019 World Cup, and probably would have lost to Scotland if the weight of history hadn't been such a massive chip on the Scots' shoulders.
They drew with England despite having a massive lead and also suffered a historic loss against Argentina in NZ. Argentina are only going through to the quarter-finals of the WC thanks to being in the easiest group and would not have progressed had they been placed in Pools A or B. Throw in the wins against arguably the worst Wallabies and Wales teams of all time, and there's not a whole lot to crow about.
This team is very average and at the moment it feels like people are saying the All Blacks are underrated purely based on irrelevant history. I'd love to know what some posters here think is being overlooked?
Yeah I agree with most of this. There's some fundamental issues with the team
The cleanout work of the tight five has been poor for a long time and quick ball is essential for how we try to play. Sometimes we'll have a game where it improves then it'll be followed by another couple of games of crap. I think it's a player quality issue. S Barrett is the only guy that performs every week.
Our game management is abysmal. Blame SR, it doesn't produce a skillset for tight Test matches where pragmatic opposition keeps the errors low.
We seem to have committed to a game plan with a lot of contestable kicks. Which is fine.. but our kick chase is not very good, it seems to have gone backwards this year
I think the team is rated about right
However we still have players that can do freakish stuff - Jordan, Telea, Ioane, Savea. The fluffy stuff not the arm wrestle
Look at the good performances in the last few years, it's usually based around a ten minute blitz where the game is won. Almost always in the first half and often towards the beginning
Take the first Irish Test last year. Reece scores against the run of play and we get with 21 points in 8mins. Game over. Final score 42-19
tldr - the team is a bit shit, the team doesn't play for 80mins, the team is unlikely to win an attritional slog but we still have the ability to pile on points very quickly
i think our cleanout issues are a direct result of two things
Our set up, and
our inability to win first contact
We set up flat, don't hit on to the ball, and more often than not the play is a tip on to another forward who is also flat. It means our cleaners aren't arriving to any sort of advantage, which means technique has to be perfect, it doesn't take much being wrong to miss that assignment.
And that flat set up means our guys don't win first contact. Of all guys, Frizzell is the key to getting us on the front foot. He hits the ball at pace at a slight unders angle. A Savea's angle on the breakout against Uruguay was also perfect.
What we don't want is too much Savea "yards after contact" which look great, but usually just result in slow messy ball.
If we are wedded to flat flat flat then everyone better not miss their assignments.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
What we don't want is too much Savea "yards after contact" which look great, but usually just result in slow messy ball.
Telea's carries resulted in a couple of turnovers v France. The forwards expected the target to be 3-4m further back
@booboo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MN5 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
Would be Foster era in a nutshell if we spank Ireland then lose to Wales.
If the ABs get past Ireland ( massive IF there ) I really don’t see Wales or Argentina putting up enough fight to stop them getting into the final.
Your mob were saying the same about England last go round
Which mob? Pretty sure we all saw that as 50/50 at best.
I think it was far more than 50/50 with most feeling pretty confident after the big win against Ireland and the fact that England weren’t playing that great at all.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
i think our cleanout issues are a direct result of two things
Our set up, and
our inability to win first contactWe set up flat, don't hit on to the ball, and more often than not the play is a tip on to another forward who is also flat. It means our cleaners aren't arriving to any sort of advantage, which means technique has to be perfect, it doesn't take much being wrong to miss that assignment.
And that flat set up means our guys don't win first contact. Of all guys, Frizzell is the key to getting us on the front foot. He hits the ball at pace at a slight unders angle. A Savea's angle on the breakout against Uruguay was also perfect.What we don't want is too much Savea "yards after contact" which look great, but usually just result in slow messy ball.
If we are wedded to flat flat flat then everyone better not miss their assignments.
....i 100% agree
we dont for a second try and just hit it up to try and draw more defenders disrupt they're formation...every play is with breaking the line in mind
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
What we don't want is too much Savea "yards after contact" which look great, but usually just result in slow messy ball.
If we are wedded to flat flat flat then everyone better not miss their assignments.
It’s high risk stuff but once we get a slight gap we can more easily exploit it. We need bodies in motion after the initial break.
It’s when the gaps aren’t there that we have lacked a little patience and if guys like Mo’unga and Beaudie are getting stagnant ball when they are flat, we look terrible.
Surprisingly that test against the Boks last year when Mo’unga played deeper out attacking line aligned accordingly and we looked a damn sight better.
