@taniwharugby They managed to get a lot of first-fives in that M10 Cup ranking that haven't played a single game this year!
@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
That ranking is such a joke! Don't cheat and have look. Guess who they have ranked the 5th first five-eighth in Super Rugby! (Don't answer if you've already seen it). Virtual chocolate fish for who guesses right first.
I cheated.
Christ on a bike. He isn't even the best 1st5 at his family bbq.
@crucial said in Exodus 2019:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
That ranking is such a joke! Don't cheat and have look. Guess who they have ranked the 5th first five-eighth in Super Rugby! (Don't answer if you've already seen it). Virtual chocolate fish for who guesses right first.
I cheated.
Christ on a bike. He isn't even the best 1st5 at his family bbq.
I haven't looked but can Guess from this comment.
Magpies and Samoa fullback JJ Taulagi has signed a short-term contract with French Pro D2 club Stade Montois (injury cover) until the end of the season.
Ta$man and NZ U20 wing Tima Faingaanuku has signed a short-term deal with French Top 14 club Perpignan until the end of the season.
Nothing confirmed but this hints that perhaps as many as 12 of the current All Blacks squad, including Beauden Barrett and Brodie Retallick, could be part of Exodus 2019:
NZ Rugby up against it, but fighting hard to retain Beauden Barrett, Brodie Retallick
New Zealand Rugby is digging in for the fight to retain All Blacks superstars Beauden Barrett and Brodie Retallick after the next World Cup.
But even they are not prepared to offer any assurances that their two most sought-after players can be retained to provide the experienced core for the next World Cup cycle through to 2023.
The international market, led by France and Japan, is simply at a level that NZ Rugby cannot hope to match. That, says chief executive Steve Tew, makes it increasingly difficult for experienced All Blacks to be re-signed so far out from the next global event.
NZ Rugby accepts there will be a post-RWC exodus of veteran figures following the global event in Japan next year. That's now a given in the four-year contracting cycle.
That will likely see skipper Kieran Read, who has already confirmed his intention to finish up as an All Black after Japan, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty, Waisake Naholo, Owen Franks, Sonny Bill Williams and Dane Coles depart. They have served their time and made their dues.
But it's that group of hardened experienced players still in their mid to late-20s who become important. Men such as Barrett, Retallick, Codie Taylor, Sam Whitelock, TJ Perenara, Sam Cane and Ardie Savea who could potentially go through to the next RWC.
"The money has gone up another notch which is predictable but disappointing," Tew told Stuff of the international market his organisation is constantly fighting. "We've always got a group of players coming off contract one way or the other.
"Clearly in Beauden and Brodie particularly, they're two world-class players who are worth a lot on the international market. So we're working closely with their people. But there's another bunch of young guys and more experienced players."
Asked if he was confident Barrett and Retallick could be retained, Tew's response during an extensive Saturday interview was deliberately qualified.
"I'm confident we'll do all we can to make their decision a tough one. We want them both to stay but we've got to be realistic about the market we're in too. So we'll have to wait and see."
Barrett might be the most difficult to hold on to. Clubs in France are reportedly ready to make him the highest paid player in the game at $2 million-plus a year and the deep-pocketed Japan companies are also said to be circling with similar offers.
The potential of combining a sabbatical-style stint in Japan with continuing his All Blacks career has been touted for Barrett, but it's thought the level of offers being waved under his nose could tempt him to make the move a more permanent one.
Retallick is likely to have different motivations but his status as the best and most consistent forward in the game will have French clubs offering the sort of money he might struggle to turn down.
Meanwhile, Tew was non-committal on the likelihood of rugby's radical league of nations concept getting over the line. A formal 12-team international competition has been mooted to replace the existing July and November windows, though at present it remains very much a work in progress.
"There's a concept being worked on, and we've all agreed it's worthwhile continuing that work. Until we get through that process and people sit back round a table and work out whether the change is going to make a difference … no decisions will be made," he told Stuff.
But Tew did confirm a change in the much-criticised international revenue model was not part of the process as it stood.
"This is not about discussing how the existing revenue is shared. We wouldn't even get to the table if that was the issue," he said.
"If we can increase the value of those games by putting them into a competition structure with some purpose then we'll increase the value broadcasters, sponsors and fans bring to it, then we can discuss how that extra revenue is shared.
"But that's a second body of work."
The long-time NZ Rugby boss was also not pushing any panic buttons about the All Blacks' late-season wobbles, with two test losses and another couple of near-misses.
"We lost two tests in a 14-game programme and we probably feel as though it wasn't our best year. Most other countries would be pretty satisfied with that result.
"The international game is very competitive. We've always said the rest of the world weren't far behind and we needed to keep working hard to stay in front. That's still the case.
"But we absolutely pay tribute to particularly Ireland. They've had an outstanding 12 months, and deservedly won World Rugby's team of the year, coach of the year and player of the year."
@rocky-rockbottom said in Exodus 2019:
Beaudy can bog off for all I care. Plenty of options there.
NO options to replace BBBR. Would leave a massive hole. NZRFU need to throw $$ at him. Worth more than all the Barrett's put together.
That's a joke, isn't it? We've one good option to take over the 10 jersey in Mo'unga; a good SR level and average test level 10 in Dmac. Behind that, it's either players who are promising, but with no or little SR experience (e.g., Cameron (who should never have been capped); Black (21 SR caps, but very few starts & minutes); Falcon; Plummer; Josh Ioane); or players who have had SR experience but have in no way proven to be ready for the step up to test level (Perofeta; Hunt; and even less, Gatland and F Smith).
Crusaders assistant coach Brad Mooar to replace Wayne Pivac as Scarlets coach after the 2019 SR season
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
@machpants not sure on those leagues, but it I had heard from a reliable source an Assistant Coach gig in the Japanese League was worth a couple hundred K a year, plus house and a car....
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
@derm-mccrum Only 5 NZers in Italy? That doesn't seem correct.
Awesome graph spam though! :thumbs_up_medium_skin_tone:
@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Only 5 NZers in Italy? That doesn't seem correct.
Awesome graph spam though! :thumbs_up_medium_skin_tone:
I only looked at players who were born in each country. Where they grew up, moved to, who their parents are is not taken account of. Just raw numbers on where a player was born. I looked at wiki pages for each club, union and club websites. And it's professional teams only - so only two in Italy.
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, Tuivaiti
@bovidae said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, Tuivaiti
You're right - I put the wrong number into the Italy column instead of NZ for Tuivaiti..
@derm-mccrum I never realised there were so many Kiwis, relative to SA. So many Fijians too.
It will be interesting to see what happens in UK post BREXIT, SA and PI players will no longer count as European Associated, it won't exist as a category maybe, so PR will have to change it's rules about number of non-UK players I guess
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Only 5 NZers in Italy? That doesn't seem correct.
Awesome graph spam though! :thumbs_up_medium_skin_tone:
I only looked at players who were born in each country. Where they grew up, moved to, who their parents are is not taken account of. Just raw numbers on where a player was born. I looked at wiki pages for each club, union and club websites. And it's professional teams only - so only two in Italy.
Interesting stuff - well done!
So the French basically can field 22 XVs of SH players!
They've fucked themselves and are slowly taking the rest of us with them!
@chris-b said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Only 5 NZers in Italy? That doesn't seem correct.
Awesome graph spam though! :thumbs_up_medium_skin_tone:
I only looked at players who were born in each country. Where they grew up, moved to, who their parents are is not taken account of. Just raw numbers on where a player was born. I looked at wiki pages for each club, union and club websites. And it's professional teams only - so only two in Italy.
Interesting stuff - well done!
So the French basically can field 22 XVs of SH players!
They've fucked themselves and are slowly taking the rest of us with them!
Indeed. Except Murphy's Law will now apply and they'll probably go and win the world cup with all French-born players just to piss us all off.
I looked up players in the Italian Top 12. I first checked Wikipedia and then the clubs team & player profiles.
These are the players & coaches, who were either born and/or raised in NZ:
Rugby San Donà:
Edward Reeves (represents Italy, but born in NZ)
Leroy Henry-Jack
NZ coach: Craig Green
Rugby Calvisano
no NZ players
Fiamme Oro Rugby
no NZ players
S.S. Lazio Rugby 1927
no NZ players
Rugby Club I Medicei
no NZ players
Rugby Mogliano
Joe Toai-Key
Mark Jackman
Petrarca Rugby
Jeremy Su'a
Valorugby Emilia
Cardiff Vaega
Junior Ngaluafe
Rugby Rovigo
NZ coach: Joe McDonnell
Valsugana Rugby Padova
no NZ players
Verona Rugby
ass coach: Luke Mahoney
Rugby Viadana
UK born, but NZ parents: Keanu Apperley
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum I never realised there were so many Kiwis, relative to SA. So many Fijians too.
It will be interesting to see what happens in UK post BREXIT, SA and PI players will no longer count as European Associated, it won't exist as a category maybe, so PR will have to change it's rules about number of non-UK players I guess
The soccer authorities have woken up to this and it's being presented as better and more opportunities for England qualified players in the leagues.
The rule on only 2 non-European players in a match day squad for Top 14, Premiership, PRO14 and the European Cup comps only applies to NZ or Australian born. If a player has PI heritage of any kind, then they're in. If you look at the background to a lot of the NZ players in France particularly, you can see why they chose some of them, so they can field 4 or 5 ex-ABs in a game which pisses off the opposition.
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@bovidae said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, TuivaitiYou're right - I put the wrong number into the Italy column instead of NZ for Tuivaiti..
I wonder if your Tongans and Samoans in the 'SH-born professional players in 52 European clubs' actually includes NZers? (Clearly I can't handle SA being ahead of us!)
Does Italy only have two professional clubs now or only two that play in the whatever the European cup comp is called now?
@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@bovidae said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum 6 by my count, but still low.
Treviso - Budd, Hayward, Faiva, Manu
Zebre - Renton, TuivaitiYou're right - I put the wrong number into the Italy column instead of NZ for Tuivaiti..
I wonder if your Tongans and Samoans in the 'SH-born professional players in 52 European clubs' actually includes NZers? (Clearly I can't handle SA being ahead of us!)
Does Italy only have two professional clubs now or only two that play in the whatever the European cup comp is called now?
I checked as carefully as I could on each player - a number of them were registered with the NZ union, but their birthplace was Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, etc. Equally, I checked players with the various PI flags and a good number of them were born in NZ and put them into NZ column.
As far as I'm aware, Benetton and Zebre are the only two professional clubs that play in the PRO14 Championship, along with Ireland, Wales, Scotland and South Africa. If one or both of them finish in the top 7 they qualify for the Heineken Champions Cup. If lower, they go into the Challenge Cup.
The Top 12 in Italy is semi-professional as far as I'm aware. (Given the FIR have reneged on their financial commitments for the two professional teams in the PRO14 over a few years, I'd hope this is the case.)
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.